Counterspell Mesmer

I ran this mesmer build in ToPK for a while last night, and found that it could be very effective at shutdown, or 'Counterspelling', as I prefer to call it.

Stats:
Note: You will probably need to adjust attribute points with the new built, but as it is untested, I can not say with authority what I think would be good selections.
Fast Casting: 8+1+2 (mask + major rune) 11
Illusion 5+1 (minor rune) 6
Domination 12+3 (superior rune) 15
Inspiration 9+1 (minor rune) 10

Skills:
Panic {E} -> [Power Block {E}]
Power Leak -> [Power Leak]
Energy Burn -> [Power Drain]
Energy Tap -> [Power Spike]
Signet of Weariness -> [Shame]
Diversion -> [Backfire]
Backfire -> [Arcane Conundrom]
Res Sig -> [Ressurection Signet]

[] = originaly

Besides the fact that it taxes your concentration, I found that it was quiet fun. Basicly, the steps you take are:
Lead with either backfire or AC. If you lead with backfire, interrupt nothing, barring hex removal and spell breaker (I am assuming monk shutdown here), and drop AC on to them at the 10 second mark (backfire will be half-way recharged after 10 seconds, so judge using that, or count)

Once AC is on a target, whether it was your lead spell or comes after backfire, this is where it gets somewhat hard. Your first interrupt should be Power Leak, sapping their energy and making them think before they cast. If they do try again, hit them with Power Spike. The next interrupt you cast should be Power Drain, to recharge your energy.

Now, your skill bar probably looks like one of two things:
Possibility One: You have Power Drain, Leak, and Spike recharging, Backfire and AC recharging.
Possibility Two: You have Power Drain, Leak, and Spike recharging, Backfire or AC ready.

It doesn't really matter at this point which of the above your bar looks like, the following steps tend to work well.

Slam them with Shame (Shame stops almost every monk spell, as well as draining energy and giving it to you. The downside is that it is near-useless against non-monks) if you need energy (IE you have less than 15) You are not likely to have less than 15 energy though, so if you have more...

You should use Power Block or Backfire, I reccomend Backfire if it is recharged, but Power Block guarntees that they wont be casting heals (if you hit a heal with it)
If you choose Power Block, this part can be a bit tricky, as by now AC is probably off, so you will be interrupting of off instinct (unless you are lucky and the monk tries to do Healing Seed/Heal Party)

You now have 15 seconds (if you hit a heal with power block) where you are basicly free to recharge your energy and skill bar, as most healing monks can't do anything without their healing spells. It is at this point where you can move to another monk and start from step one again, or stick to your original target and heal up.

If you did Backfire instead, repeat from the first step for as long as possible, but if you need to, USE POWER BLOCK! It doesn't matter if you use it on the first spell they cast while under backfire, it is your job to stop a monk from healing, just remember the 'rules' about interrupting during Backfire.

By the way...as far as I have seen, Power Block is kind of like a ranged Blackout, you can't remove it once it is on you.

I have considered removeing Power Spike for, say, Shatter Enchantment, but I like having 4 interrupts at my beck and call, for those instances when I really need to stop something.

Ok, so the downsides I have seen:
Problems against protection monks. RoF goes pretty damn quick, and is, as far as I can tell, impossible to hit with an interrupt. Shame helps, but not a lot.
No non-spell interruption. I suppose you could take out Power Spike and add CoF or Leech Signet, but CoF's cost is kind of steep, and Leech Signet has an ungainly recharge time.
AC can't stay up forever. You will need to get very good at the 'twitch-game', if you know what I mean, and once you get good at it, you will find yourself fireing an interrupt at something you wouldn't normaly hit, and then you need to recover, and...well, you get the idea.
You can't kill anything! This problem is kind of large, but my team usually managed to do fine since the other team was running basicly down a monk.

If you read this far, thanks! Leave some input, I would love to hear about any modifications you think would be good for the build, and please don't take any spelling mistakes to heart, it is kind of a long post to check without a spellchecker available

Uhh... shame doesn't effect ANY healer monk spells. Shame interrupts offensive spells cast against YOUR allies.

Mesmer interrupt builds are inferior to ranger interrupt builds, who can interrupt faster and deal brutal damage at the same time.

You won't be able to reliably interrupt a monk without using conundrum or migraine, though you can reliably interrupt an ele or nec.

Also, using interrupts to prevent a player from acting is inferior to energy denial, which can be used on multiple opponents more reliably. Interrupt builds must babysit their target relentlessly, you can't do anything else.

My input: abandon the entire concept of pure mesmer interrupt builds. Mesmer interrupts server other purposes: situational energy restores, situational nukes, etc... that compliment builds meant to do those particular things.

Quote: Originally Posted by Morganas Uhh... shame doesn't effect ANY healer monk spells. Shame interrupts offensive spells cast against YOUR allies. Judging from your post, I really doubt you actually tried this build out, or you can't recognize the interrupt animation yet. You are thinking of Guilt

Shame will stop a monk from casting a heal spell, a mesmer from casting Sympathetic Visage, and a necro from casting Blood Ritual.

Don't believe me? Try it sometime, and find out.

I noticed you removed the line about my not having played this build yet, I find the desire to include the orginal in my quote. You do not get interrupted, Shame works and looks like spell breaker. You click the button, spell fails, looks exactly as though the target moved right after clicking the button. The interrupt animation for most mesmer interrupts by the way, is the target getting knocked down and immediatly standing back up again. With Power Block you get a blackout-style globe as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Morganas

I took that part out because it was out of line and rude. I said it because it'd be clear to anyone who's played cookie cutter would either see the obvious flaw of an interrupts mesmer or not recognize the fact that your target is managing to get some of his spells cast. Energy denial results in one target not casting ANYTHING, and one or more targets severely gimped.

70% isn't good enough for long cooldown interrupts. Compare it to a ranger/nec with spinal shivers and wager(pretty flawed if you don't take choking as fallback though), or even normal choking or concussion. As long as their target is standing still, they'll hit. You can't cast while dodging arrows.

Also, the fact remains that this mesmer build is lacking in that it cannot shutdown multiple opponents, interrupts require babysitting. No amout of skill, buffing of interrupts, or making new builds to better exploit that will change that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Morganas Also, the fact remains that this mesmer build is lacking in that it cannot shutdown multiple opponents, interrupts require babysitting. No amout of skill, buffing of interrupts, or making new builds to better exploit that will change that. You are absolutly correct, I can not get more than one target. I had always been under the (obviously incorrect) impression that that is what a shutdown character did, was shutdown a single target (usually a monk) so that the team could kill other targets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas You can't cast while dodging arrows. While that is true, I have noticed some instances (very few, but they exists) where a stance is used to evade (again, I am assuming monk targets here). These stances don't stop Choking Gas, but the duration on that is so low... Perhaps I will create a ranger to retest CG with soon, as it would be interisting for me to know whether I am completely incorrect in my statement about casting in between the hits. (mind you, I won't believe it till I see it) I should probably say right out that I am not rank 3 or anything like that, my HoH experience is (fairly) limited. While I have done very extensive competition arenas battles, I still need to get a better understanding with 8 player teams. One comment on the spinal shivers/wager combo, doesn't that suffer the same problems as choking gas? Obvioulsy the problem disapears if you can extend their cast times or increase your fire times, and if I find out from my tests that I am incorrect about CG, that translates into being incorrect about this as well. I have always felt that normal speed interrupts had no place in serious combat, as you had a slim at best chance to hit the target when you needed. Perhaps it is time for me to revisit this.

Here's my take on an interrupt build vs. energy denial vs. Blackout (my favorite build which I have created myself)...
Mesmer interrupt builds can be every good, if made correctly, at most 5 interrupts, AC/Migraine(if you're not using power block which, imo, is better), and two-three spells that will give you some recovery time. For one of your interrupts, I highly suggest cry of frustration, it's funny, and it can interrupt anything. The problem with interrupt builds is that it requires a lot of concentration, split second timing, and the ability to discerne casting animations. There is a lot or margine for error, but a good interrupter is invaluable. I have tried interrupting before, and to be honest, I can't do it well enough to warrant using that build.

Energy denial is great, and I am talking about hardcore energy denial w/out mind wrack/ wastrel's worry. The idea is to keep your opponent's energy at 0, works best on monks who are not mesmer secondaries or elementalist primaries. once your opponent has 0 energy, they have nothing on you, the problem is that interrupt builds can work as instantaneous shutdown while energy denial takes more time (especially with a necro around), but is more definite. I love this build, it was my first PvP mesmer build, and has worked wonders on my enemies.

Blackout...it needs echo to work really well, stick some skills on there to shutdown during echo's cooldown, and you have a pretty efficient build. The problem arises when they start running, stops them from casting for the most part as well, but it does get really annoying. Blackout is instantaneous, not a spell (cannot be affected by spellbreaker or any interrupts), and is fun, you will experience energy problems though, so bring some energy recovery with you like shame/guilt/energy tap. Also, you will be behind enemy lines, so make sure your healer knows what you're doing. It is not as constant as energy denial, or as insane as interruption, but it's good in its own way.

I have played all three builds in a PvP setting, and have seen them in action as well. I have made it to the HoH with the energy denial build and the blackout build (I really can't play the interruption that well). Although, I got owned in the HoH both times lol.

Mystic, energy denial is effectively instantaneous if you're stacked for it, using arcane echo with energy drain, along with tap feast and burn and you can drain an entire monks bar in less then 5 seconds and keep it at zero.

The advantage of energy denial isn't that you can drain multiple targets (though you can if you take advantage of a necro secondary), it's that you can completely shut down one, and have plenty of time before they get 5 energy to hit diversion on another foe, between every energy draining cast, taking ample advantage of all that excess energy you're getting. Despite how much people say they hate it, I take mind wrack too, it's a helpful indicator of when they hit zero energy and it forces the monk to heal himself if you accidentally let him hit 5 energy.

A mesmer has no place taking blackout due to the same beef I had with the interrupt build, it only works on one target and leave you unable to do anything else. I've seen it on warriors before, which seems to do better since they can halfway function with it on them, but warriors can run energy denial pretty effectively too.

monk hiding behind a rock against fragility + incendiary FTW
doesn't work on all maps, but when it does its pretty funny....

I'd drop one or two of the interupts and replace it/them with a fire-and-forget domination hex. I find the best way to use interupts is to not go all out on them, and use them only after you've doled out hexes to the rest of the team like candy.

I could say that more effective "counterspell mesmer" could be something like this..

Domination - 15 (12+3)
Fast Cast - 9 (8+1)
Inspiration - 11 (10+1)

Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Mind Wrack
Energy Tap
Drain Enchantment
Ether Feast
What ever you like
Res Sig

This is very effective build against anything. There is no protection against energy burning. Energy constantly at 0-10 + mind wrack on .. well you figure

Shutdown options:

Energy denial
Single target: No
Twitch required: No
Counters: Energy management Elite, focus switching
Anti-counters: Signet of Humility (against the former)

When your target doesn't have any energy there's not much he can do. The Mesmer can move on to another target while he scrounges up for 5 energy for an Orison. At best he'd have 12 energy from focus switching, but I don't think many people use this as it's kind of a hassle.

Interrupts
Single target: Yes
Twitch required: Yes
Counters: Mantra of Resolve/Concentration etc (not used)
Anti-counters: -

Interrupts just require too much watchdogging, and with .25 cast times on some Monk spells, reaction time and lag, it can be hopeless to interrupt them.

Hexes
Single target: No
Twitch required: No
Counters: Hex removal, Hex Breaker, Nature's Renewal
Anti-counters: Covers, Hex Breaker breakers, Fast Casting (Partial)

Hexes get removed, you can cover them but there's Convert, or just 2 removals, and you're spending extra energy to cover your hexes. Add in Hex Breaker and you need to cast two 5 energy hexes just to protect one hex.

Blackout
Single target: Yes
Twitch required: No
Counters: Kiting, snares, spiking you when you overextend
Anti-counters: Snares, hex/condition removal (Partial)

Probably the worst. You get owned by snares and kiting. Some snares on you you can remove, but Ward Against Foes with kiting screws you totally. Snaring the target can help but they can remove that. You're also a soft target extending into enemy lines, you're asking to be spiked as soon as you get out of healing range.

Energy denial is by far the better option.

Mind Wrack is trash, never use it. Especially not when wasting energy denial spells trying to trigger it to do pointless off-target damage, when you could just drain someone else.

Now that they have dropped the cast time, I would take cry of frustration on ANY interrupt build.

I haven't done an interrupt ranger so can't comment on that.

Why would you want to run interrupt spells on a Ranger, that has Expertise for his own interrupts? That, and they don't have 20 sec recharges. I will never understand people who put Power Spike etc on Rangers.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nash

Cry is too expensive to put on a Ranger. Only spells you want on a Ranger (or Warrior for that matter) are those that do things Rangers (or Warriors) can't do themselves, like remove enchantments, or of course damage buffs.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nash

Well, you have to keep in mind Rangers have a limited energy pool and 3 pips, and generally don't run energy management skills, they rely on Expertise and Zealous Bow for their energy. Expertise doesn't work on spells, and Zealous bow doesn't work unless you're attacking.

So, use attack skills or preps to interrupt on a Ranger, to keep your energy pool happy.

Been a bit since I replied to this, I have been a bit busy with school, sorry.

Anyway, it seems like the general consensus is, "give up interruption, go energy drain", so the new build is posted here, and added to the first post

Panic
Power Leak
Cry of Frustration/Arcane Echo
Energy Tap
Signet of Weariness
Diversion
Backfire
Res Signet

Please keep in mind that this new build is UNTESTED.

I have no idea if Panic works well, I would think that, as with Wither, -2 energy regen can hurt a lot. Of course, the fact that it is AoE and won't end if you hit 0 are also nice. (the damage when you use signets will probably come about every...10-15 games I suppose, depending on how many sig of devotion/blessed signet monks you find)

Power Leak is very good "spike" drain, though situational and a long recharge. It hits monks pretty hard.

CoF/AE. Well, CoF is a decent interrupt, but I think AE would work better as you could use it and then SoW/ET for good energy drain.

Energy Drain: Well, partial energy drain, this skill seems like a kind of staple, and is good to recharge yourself also.

SoW: AoE drain, I like it except for the long recharge.

Diversion: Lots of smite builds running around, this should help counter that, as well as being spamable on monks if needed.

Backfire: Again, can hurt smite groups (perhaps not experienced ones, but you see more bad ones than anything else) and I like to put it on monks.

Res Sig: I would love to take this out for more energy managment like Drain Enchantment, or perhaps add Rend Enchantments, but it seems kind of important for the non-monks to be able to res.

I figure that most people will say, "remove panic, add energy drain", and I might after I test it, but until I see for myself if Panic is bad, or just under-used, I will reserve judgement.

Id focus a bit more on diversion than you are. Its the best hex around in terms of shutdown, especially for monks, who are generally spammers of the same spell (e.g. orison) over and over. While most monks bring at best 2/3 alt heals, just getting the main one is often a huge hit on efficiency.

Panic got buffed, but still i have to say for single targets drain is better. panic is a bitch for healing balls and a nagging trouble for anyone else, who wont have their entire team blasted by it. As the name suggests, in a non healing ball situation, a bunch of nubs who dont remove will start to panic (since their energy is being hit so hard), but a competent team will put it as priority to get rid of it as soon as it comes up.

Unless you feel like getting mantra of inscriptions then dont bother with sow. its about the equivalent of 1pip, which isnt bad but isnt worth it really. Ether Feast i believe is 5e on a single target every 8s, which comes out as nearly 2pips, and you heal yourself.

I would run Energy Drain/Tap/Burn and Diversion, and some more stuff.

Energy Burn is nice for a denial Mesmer. It tells you how much energy your target has left.

Panic you want to use against Healing balls. Other than that, I think it's overpriced, and will probably just get removed off the targets that matter. But sure, go test. First hand experience is always nice to have.