Vow to fix eonomy

Well, it is true that there's nothing forcing people to buy from NPCs....... but this game is called Guild Wars. Not Economy Wars. Some of us prefer to play the game rather than sorting through endless WTS/WTB messages, hoping by chance to find something. Also, the NPCs play a role whether you buy from them or not. They set the prices people work from.

Ex: black shoots up to 40k @ NPC. People refuse to sell black below 30k.

The price has still risen without even engaging the NPC. And as there are limited hours in the day, I play the game when I can, but I generally make only 1-2k a day if I don't spend on anything (that's from just playing -- not farming/focusing on making money). And that isn't enough to afford these inflated prices.

so what's so speical about black dye that I don't know about and everyone should get a dozen of them just in case?

Nothing. It's just food coloring, but apparently it is very special food coloring. I mean, very, very, very special food coloring. I was only using it as an example.

FACTS:
There is nothing forcing people to buy or sell items to the NPCs.
One does not need gold to get the best armor for his/her class of character.
There are collectors, etc.
The color of items, the way they look, etc. does not affect the preformance of those specific items. Thus, dyes are simply arbitrary. They're much like an onion; you can peel away at the layers, but eventually you're left with nothing.

"Some of us prefer to play the game rather than sorting through endless WTS/WTB messages, hoping by chance to find something."
So because of your laziness, we should nerf the economy, etc.? Brilliant.
Granted, I'm not saying you're wanting to nerf the economy, etc. But I'm sure you're speaking on behalf of most people who have complaints about the economy.

"Also, the NPCs play a role whether you buy from them or not. They set the prices people work from."
This is only partly true. NPCs play an indirect role in the economy. They set an initial standard for what the item will be sold for, etc. The simple fact is, it doesn't matter how much the NPCs value an item when there is no demand for it. Thus, players like you and me control the economy directly.

The economy is based off Supply and Demand. If you fail to realize this, then I'm sorry. The reason why black dye is so expensive is because there is such a high demand for it. No other way around this.

***Double Post Text (ONE post at a time. Please use the EDIT key to add more thoughts rather than double posting):***

good news is, I think we've moved onto complain about not getting the summer update now.

Yes, but do you need black dye to complete the game? Do you need to buy those superior runes, which are mostly used for farming UW?

All of the crafting materials that are used to create anything that you actually do need (armor, etc) has a reasonable price. Only stuff like dye and other things you don't need have high prices, which makes sense.

Although I do wish Sigil prices would drop...

I posted a kinda detailed explanation http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=43903
of why there is a problem but it's the solution that Eludes me...
Although I did hear a suggestion the other night that might work.
BOYCOTT DYE AND OTHER INSANELY PRICED ITEMS! ! !
I think I'll start a new thread with that title.

Farm? Well ok I just finish my 105 hp monk. It only needs 4 superior runes which will cost only over 200k!!!

Ugg everythings back up. I started heavily selling my dyes, raw materials, and runes before this. And to think, I was doing my part in bringing prices back down.

Just because you don't NEED something doesn't mean it's fine that the price for it skyrockets. Maybe we should just make everything from the merchants including salvage kits, dye remover, all runes, all dyes, and all materials cost 99k because we don't NEED them. Then when trying to sell the items to the trader, he would offer 1 gold for everything.

Agreed. Here's my point of view on dyes: Of course, they do absolutely nothing attributes or abilities-wise, but they allow you to customize your character more... in effect, to stand out... or to look like everyone else in the case of "oooo, gotta have a black set of armor!!" What I'm trying to get at, is the whole idea of dye having so much value. Should it really be worth that much? I'm assuming ANet wanted it to be based off supply/demand, and so whatever it's worth is what it's worth. But how are merchants allowed to make such a profit? Ex:

This was from earlier today. The dye trader appears to arbitrarily buy back certain dyes for 1 gold, while they'll buy other dyes (with lower sell prices) for more. That seems backwards to me. Also, in some instances they sell for over 1k, but buy back for only 1g. I wish I could make a profit like that IRL.

What I'm suggesting is that they balance the market a little, or whatever you want to call it, so that when supply goes down, prices actually go up and vice versa, and so vendors buy back at a reasonable price in relation to their selling price. We need some way so that people who don't farm/play the market can keep up with inflation, because since there is no control on the money supply, I don't see inflation ever stopping.

That was more or less what I was trying to say. I have nothing against prices going up as demand does, but it's the inflation I take issue with. That, and things like traders selling for really low prices when they get 1 thing in stock, or buying back high demand items for 1 gold. That's what I see as a problem.

I think the problem is that the game as it is right now just encourages massive farming. If you want a sword that doesn't look like a piece of coal (collector item) you must either farm until you have enough gold to buy a good looking one or until one drops for you. A lot of gold is generated in this process and none of it is being sunk. The one million gold that somebody pays for the fellblade simply goes to another player's pocket, not a single piece of gold removed from the game. I heard on the sell forums someone saying "I wouldn't mind paying 5 million gold for a perfect crystalline". There is way too much gold out there and some people don't mind spending 200k at all to get that 105 monk to hunt for that perfect fellblade or perfect chaos axe or ectoplasms, etc. They should make some of the cooler looking weapons craftable by some Weapons guy in the upcoming Sorrow's Furnace, costing large amounts of gold and materials, because the only way to get gold out of the game is for it to go into the pockets of an NPC. Or maybe make ecto always buyable from some NPC, and have it drop so infrequently that it's not worth farming for it. Or make some difficult repeatable quests (which have randomized monsters) give ecto as reward, making it better to quest in parties rather than farm for millions of gold in order to get that Fissure armor. People keep saying that you don't need ____ to compete, but there are many people who are finished with everything and they need something to do. Make those "things to do" not farming, so they don't inflate prices for the other players. Make them quest with other people who are already done too.

The problem lies in the traders. People look at trader prices and charge accordingly

The thing that gets me is that this really isn't about supply and demand. Really.

Trader prices are loosely based upon supply and demand, ultimately do not gague the market - when he's selling black dye for 40k (which unsurprisingly isn't selling) and buying it for 1g (and he's not getting any either), and his prices won't budge - well, what does that tell us about the *actual* market value of a black dye? Absolutely nothing.

Unfortunately people percieve the trader's prices as a benchmark of market value. More specifically, the trader's *selling* price. As long as you're undercutting the trader the price is fair, right?

If I had to guess I'd bet that the actual selling price of Black Dye has not changed significantly from 8-10k. It's just that now, it's nigh impossible to actually trade it at that price because everyone who finds one looks at the trader and goes 'selling Black Dye - 20k! Half the price of the trader!' Of course if you tried it in reverse, 'buying Black Dye, 500 gold! Twice the price of the trader!' you'd just get laughed at.

Summary:

- Trader prices no longer make any sense
- Players use the trader prices as a benchmark for fair market value
- Trading between players is FUBAR

Peace,
-CxE

and people are still buying at that price because....?

because they can afford it and they think it's worth it to make their armor appear black?

That's the most misunderstood thing about the economy in GW or in real world. And believe me, I am not one of those who criticize Adam Smith.

I must say there is something strange how traders prices work in Guild Wars. For example yesterday ectoplasm prices at American servers were about 18-19k each but suddenly they dropped about 8.5k each. Sometimes traders give 150g from certain rune but about an half hour they suddenly give 8k from it. No one buys ectos 18-19k each and no one sell them to trader because it gave like 6k from each but still that huge price drop happened. Trader prices are strange and have aggressive shifts on prices in some items which have no connection to human players doings.

I want to drive a Ferrari instead of my honda accord so I can stand out but they priced it so expensive that I can't afford one

US government should restrict dealers from selling Ferrari's for over $50k per car

wouldn't it be great that everyone can stand out, afford a Ferrari or two?

I have that one, and other strings too. Want it? Free.

well.....seeing as no weapon on the game is even worth over 10k why would i pay 100k+ for it? i can get the same weapon from collectors and find the upgrades for less than 10k majority of the time.

problem is that people are looking at the wrong mods. lets compare shall we...30hp upgrade i've seen up to 80k that saves me from about 4 hits on avg. now compare that to +5 armor which will reduce dmg from magic and physical attacks by 1-2 per hit and last as long as i'm alive so that will save me from more than 4 hits and can buy it for about 500-1k. next.....

vampiric (sword & axe example) max is 3:1 so i gain 3 hp per hit which is 1 sec w/o buffs or stances and i lose 2 hp per sec always so you gain a net of 1 hp per hit. this is the most useless mod on the game and i can sell it for 30k. shall i go on?

sundering 10/10 gives you an increase of 1% dmg 10% of the time. what's 1% of 22 dmg? 0.22. that's not even 1 dmg increase so why are people paying over 100k just for this useless upgrade? now compare that to elemental dmg. i can buy most upgrades for under 1k and they activate every hit and most make you deal more dmg than not having one. lengthen bleeding gives 3 hp degen which is 6 hp per sec and your attack rate is 1 sec so you affectively add 6 dmg to your attacks when you cause bleeding. deep wound cuts by 20% of max life. most players life is over 500 which is 100 hp with one hit. again another very cheap upgrade.

people are overcharging for the trends and popular items while overlooking the good mods and upgrades.

btw its not anets fault the merchants don't give good sell prices you can thank the bots for that. the merchants have such a high supply of an item that they will not give a good price for it because they have tons of them already. nerfing the drops and inflation should balance the market out eventually. if anet does step in it will only make it balance faster hence the increase drops they stated in the state of game letter.

it will be fixed you just have to wait. btw you can finish this game with crap gear all you need is armor.