I just had a download...

Perhaps there is plenty of ways to counter it, perhaps it is balanced, yet we haven't figured out how yet and the devs are laughing at us for being so slow...

Thank the gods for that! That was driving me completely mad!

The fixes introduced recently were all bug fixes. The skills were not working as intended, and have been fixed.

We are, however, aware of possible balance issues that have been raised on the forums. As was indicated in James Phinney's recent State of the Game letter we're currently working on several balance adjustments, and we'll announce our plans soon.

Yes indeed Matt. I used to totally avoid those damned bog thingies because of that spell.
Soloing them with a non AoE character was never a good idea but maybe now we will be able to hit them

The update sounds good from what i've seen.

Ah...so I see. thanks for clearing that difference up Alex.

YAY!
Now i am happy, REALLY happy that Mistform is working now. Thanks a lot... that made me a happy man for today

Yeah. I spend many an hour shouting at the screen, "HOW IS THIS 25%?! THIS IS MORE LIKE 75%! IT'S DEFINITELY NOT 25% THAT'S FOR BLOODY SURE! HIT THE DAMN THING! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE JUST DIE!!! AGGGGGHHHHH!"

Or something like that.

Well it annoyed me, anyway. Of course, now that they're finally fixed I can't enjoy it because my connection itself is having problems now. The Laws of Sod are against me, dagnamit.

Amen, brother... Amen.

But at least it helped me know I could count to 4 correctly. ("Miss 1...Miss 2...Miss 3?!?...Miss 4?!?!?")

please don't nerf the hell out of Nature's Renewal simply to appease the player base that's too lazy to develop a decent work around. I love watching them cry about it

/signed

Algren Cole, MSecorsky, please post a comprehensive, proven-concept (actual relevant practical experience) counter to Nature's Renewal that is light enough to be carried without gimping your team, so that people will be discouraged to run Nature's Renewal in their teams any longer.

If you can't, or simply don't bother with PvP in the first place, please refrain from posting on subjects you don't know anything about. Your posts are insults to those who spent many hours documenting and discussing what they perceive is an imbalance in the game, you know, presenting actual arguments, experiences and insights.

I find it incredible how you can call them lazy when you're just sitting on the side, don't bother to try to understand their arguments but just dismiss them with 'haha, you're not smart enough', and not present any form of constructive suggestion on how to counter it.

Please don't leave NR unchanged to appease the player base that's too lazy to develop an organized debuff/ hex removal strategies and are just counting on renewal spam to kill skills they otherwise have no idea how to fight against.

Dear Clueless Person(s):

Attached is a list of all the skills that spamming Nature's Renewal effectively renders useless. If you do not think the spamming of one skill shutting down 132 other skills is a balance issue, or better yet, a severe detriment to versatility in the play environment, you are supporting a game environment in which 25% of the total available skills are not an option. Thank you for playing.

Elementalist (30)
=============
Air Attunement
Conjure Lightning
Glimmering Mark
Lightning Surge (Dubious, since its short duration, but its a Hex, so it counts)
Thunderclap
Earth Attunement
Grasping Earth
Iron Mist
Kinetic Armor
Magnetic Aura
Obsidian Flesh
Elemental Attunement
Aura of Restoration
Ether Prodigy
Ether Renewal
Conjure Flame
Fire Attunement
Incendiary Bonds
Armor of Frost
Armor of Mist
Blurred Vision
Conjure Frost
Deep Freeze
Frozen Burst
Ice Prison
Mind Freeze
Mist Form
Rust
Swirling Aura
Water Attunement

Mesmer (28)
======
Backfire
Diversion
Empathy
Guilt
Shame
Ignorance
Mind Wrack
Panic
Wastrel's Worry
Arcane Conundrum
Conjure Phantasm
Crippling Anguish
Ethereal Burden
Fevered Dreams
Fragility
Illusion of Haste
Illusion of Weakness
Illusionary Weaponry
Imagined Burden
Ineptitude
Migraine
Phantom Pain
Soothing Images
Sympathetic Visage
Channeling
Ether Lord
Spirit Shackles
Spirit of Failure

Monk (40)
====
Aura of Faith
Blessed Aura
Divine Boon
Divine Spirit
Peace and Harmony
Spell Breaker
Unyielding Aura
Watchful Spirit
Healing Breeze
Healing Hands
Healing Seed
Live Vicariously
Mending
Vigorous Spirit
Essence Bond
Holy Veil
Succor
Vengeance
Aegis
Guardian
Life Attunement
Life Barrier
Life Bond
Mark of Protection
Pacifism
Protective Bond
Protective Spirit
Shield of Deflection
Shield of Regeneration
Shielding Hands
Vital Blessing
Balthazar's Aura
Balthazar's Spirit
Holy Wrath
Judge's Insight
Retribution
Scourge Healing
Scourge Sacrifice
Shield of Judgment
Strength of Honor
Zealot's Fire

Necromancer (34)
===========
Awaken the Blood
Blood Renewal
Blood Ritual
Blood is Power
Dark Bond
Dark Fury
Demonic Flesh
Life Siphon
Life Transfer
Mark of Subversion
Order of Pain
Order of the Vampire
Soul Leech
Barbs
Defile Flesh
Faintheartedness
Insidious Parasite
Lingering Curse
Malaise
Mark of Pain
Parasitic Bond
Price of Failure
Rigor Mortis
Shadow of Fear
Soul Barbs
Spinal Shivers
Spiteful Spirit
Suffering
Weaken Armor
Wither
Aura of the Lich
Death Nova
Tainted Flesh
Verata's Aura

Ranger (0)
=====
None

Warrior (0)
======
None

with all the counters to SS developed you think some people may just actually learn there enemy when they fight them instead of whine and wait for Anet to change it back for them ... hell go ahead and nerf NR for these babys ... healing ball here I come

Well, yes, if they don't buff the other forms of enchantment removal, most of which have abysmal recast time and cannot compete with enchant stacking, then we're all going back to Healing Ball, and maybe -then- they'll get the idea.

exactly ... I mean at the current state ... recast times on some of those hex removal skills are terrible ... okay enchant reval is bad but manageable but then you have about 12% of your teams skill bar set to enchant removal ... and thats alot.

NR and the lack of decent enchantment removal are two problems that both need addressing. Just because some other problem will become more apparent once an initial problem is fixed doesn't mean the best course of action is to just sit on your hands. There's many threads detailing this exact dual issue.

You'll miss NR when you run into an all uber-mini-monk arena team.

Just to clarify though, you're talking about the all ranger team tucked into their spirits castle or no?

No, he's talking about Nature's Renewal, the skill, in general. Not spirit spam.

I won't miss Nature's Renewal one bit in that case. I'll be too busy cheerfully introducing that team to the magical land of Shatter and Rend Enchantments.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

Kill the ranger.