Is GW like any other game?

If you want a game that compares to Guild Wars, cop Evil Islands. I think it came out in 2001, and it is frigging similar. Doesn't have PvP though. Outposts, instancing, armor crafting, skill (spells), melee/ranged/magic situation, etc. etc. Guild Wars is graphically far superior of course, and there's more balance i'm sure, but Evil Islands did not allow pvp, and it was built that way. I played Evil Islands longer than I did morrowind, and it had a marginally small budget and very shitty distribution. I bought it for €5,00 and I'm sure GW cannot top the game in price/quality. It would have to be ten times better, and quite frankly, there is no game out that is 10 times better than Evil Islands.

uhhh, Cain is an alpha tester IIRC, so he would have that special mysterious knowledge you speak of.

No they wouldn't! I've suffered through patching in games that don't have the streaming updates, it's pretty painful by comparison.

Won't argue the rest since in fact I agree, there's no single revolutionary feature in Guild Wars -- every feature it has, has precedent elsewhere. It is, however, a significant evolutionary step forward in many areas. It does a lot of what's been done previously better.

I couldn't let this go. I agree in the fact that Guild Wars isn't completely unique, nothing is... you could take uniqueness back to it being a game. And then compare it to hopskotch and dodge ball. This means nothing, for I could do the exact opposite and point out the things that are truly unique to the game. This unique argument is completely useless as it is completely based on the perspective of the person.

Streaming Technology interrupting the game... have you ever played this game. The point of streaming technology is that it DOESN'T interrupt gameplay at all. Period.

Selecting 8 skills is the basis of the game. It makes the strategy. Saying you could do the same for any MMORPG is well...it's dumb. You need to work as a team in this game, that's the point. That's why those skills are important instead of a haphazard random selection you pick those that suit your team.

Levelling up the character in 25 hours... yes other games allow it. The point is that the level cap is 20... so you completely levelled (not just levelled) your character in 25 hours if that is your aim.

Also, there is the downloading of individual maps to a particular team. This stops queue lines to quests.

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. All of these things combined create a balanced gameplay. Whether the gameplay is for you or not is up to the person. But please make legitimate anti-game points... I realize they were to point out the non-uniqueness of the game. But making little errors like that in streaming technology (okay this is a big error) will give those considering the game a wrong impression.

For me Guild Wars is a combination of:

Myth (Real Time Strat)
Diablo 2 (Action/Adventure)
Counter-Strike (FPS)
WoW, EQ, etc (MMORPG)

so unique is appropriate

Diablo 2 - (grind, uber items, script-kiddies, tk, tg....ect) + (skill, enthralling storyline, the right way to do PvP, good people, and developers who actualy care about the game they have)= Guild Wars

The thing that, for me, seperates this from every other game is the fact that lowbies can play with highbies without too much disparity. In most MMORPGs I play, I'm usually very good for my level, but the grind gets to me and I never experience any of the higher level content (which is often the best content in the game). Knowing that I won't miss content because the grind ends in a week makes this game very, very appealing to me. Didn't participate in the weekend events, though, so I'm really just going on hear-say.

I strongly agree with this.

Conflict of interest is just too strong a force for humans to not get sucked into. The problem with monthly fee games is that it is not in their interest for you to cap out quickly.

So far, I've seen four approaches to making a game appeal over a longer period than most "normal single player games" do:

1) allow quick capping and do what UO did and bank PvP and on the fact that their game is so creatively constructed that players will want to keep making new characters after capping their first one (along with expansions for more content). Unfortunately, most of these MMORPGs aren't even 10% as good as even the most banal single player CRPG game on the market as far as plot is concerned so their worries about sudden account cancellation based on boredom is all too real.

2) allow quick capping and do what Shadowbane did and rely on PvP (along with expansions) to keep players playing after a quick cap. This works too but in a system where there is usually an lack of balance in the numbers of players on each side of a conflict, the side with more players will nearly alway win and skill is diminished.

3) allow quick capping and do what GW is doing and rely on PvP to hold players over (along with expansions for more content in the future) AND have a mode that balances the number of players on both sides.

4) don't allow quick capping and do what EQ and it's clones do and bank on players being willing to hit cap no matter how repetitive it is. Then, make this path take a lot of hours of play.

In any case, after playing every major MMORPGish sort of game out there, I came to a policy about 2 years ago that says, "if one band of character/world content (usually represented by 1 level) takes more than 2 hours for me to achieve I will instantly cancel account. So, recently, WoW got cancelled at level 32, the exact day it took me over 2 hours to hit a level (actually this happened just days into the first month I had to pay for ).

So, I agree, a steady stream of new content and not getting trapped in one band of it for many hours on end is an iron-clad requirement for me these days and GW is ONE of the games that has that.

i just put it this way.

to me guildwars = magic the gathering(MtG) + (diablo X 3dimensional gameplay) + a team full of other members wanting what you want, to complete the next mission/match/quest.

you dont have to do things in order to get to the last quest.
you dont have to buy the expac's to still play with the rest.
you dont even have to level your characters to be able to compete(just pick a pvp char and head for the tombs)

in a way, the game it resembles the most to me, is MtG. and that game is the best card stratagy game ive ever played.

I understand this comparison since I play MtG on-line nearly every day and can see some similarity.

However, it doesn't really work for me. If they slowed the spells down by a large factor, e.g. tripled the casting time, and took out the twitch elements then it would be more similar.

MtG is a strategy game that is ALL about thinking (and a HUGE amount of luck). GW is about 30% thinking and 70% a combo of twitch/speedy reaction time and SPEEDY thinking which does not equate to strategic thinking and basically zero luck.

A good example of this is in Warcraft III. Micromanagement is not the same as strategic thinking and if you've played WCIII, you'll know the difference.

Also, honestly, in every MMORPG that I've played PvP in, I don't remember EVER using more than about 8 skills anyway. The fact is that there are usually only about 5-10 "best" skills in any of these games per class and the same largely will go for GW at high levels of play. Perhaps the choices will be a bit broader and increase in time, but as of the end of the last BWE, it seemed to me quite similar really in terms of say, DAoC combat and GW combat. Don't forget, also, that in DAoC you actually are selecting a skill bar in a way as you level your character. In other words of the say 100 skills per class, the reason you end up with about 8 in capped PvP is because that is how you "built" your character. Very similarly to how you build a character in GW with Attributes.

Again, the main difference is that there are an equal number of players on each team and that is a BIG difference.

Reposting this here from my guild's forums since it relates to the topic of the thread
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Ok I've taken part in a few beta weekends and here are my thoughts:

Personal View:

The artwork in the game game is beautiful. It's like they drew all the things I always imagined a fantasy world to be. The attention to detail is astounding. Like when your in Borelis (mountains for those not familiar with the game) and it's snowing all around. And then you notice everyone even has fog coming out of their mouth as their breath touches the freezing air. I didn't notice that at first but when I did I marvelled at it.

I'm not really explaining this well so let me move on:

In other MMO's like DAOC or EQ I felt like a faceless charachter. The missions and quests blew in those games mostly revolving around delivering package A to Point B.

Guildwars is different. In Guildwars I feel like a "hero". The story is all about YOU and YOUR adventures through it. It's the most interactive MMO ever conceived in part because it doesn't take 20 years to make it to the high end content and also in part because of the genious of instanced missions woven together like chapters of a book.

The people complaining the loudest are the one's that want to grind.

For me I see Guildwars as an interactive movie/novel. The story is extremely deep and it is driven not by power lvler Joe Blow's famous deeds, it is driven by MY deeds ... at whatever pace I am comfortable with. Each mission is a chapter of MY book, which I can read at MY pace.

This is where Guildwars really shine's from a PvE perspective ...

The ability to lvl quickly also has the added benefit of allowing even CASUAL players to tinker with different avatars ....

In most MMO's your stuck with whatever build you picked on day 1 unless your willing to "reroll" and invest another million years lvling up. Not so with GuildWars.

PvP is a fun bonus but it's the PvE that really hooked me.

I've read in other threads people bemoaning how "short" the PvE content is (or will be).

Let me set something straight right now. The content is about the same as what you get in EQ, AC, DAOC and many other games. The difference is that it won't take you 10 billion years to access that content through mindless lvling. As a family man with other responsibilities I appreciate this more so than power lvlers might.

"But Bamelin if I can get through the PvE content so quickly what next? I don't like PvP!"

Guess what? Guildwars is not meant for PvE'ers to play for years grinding away. This is why there will be tons of expansions. Compare the PvE content to that of a great book in a Trilogy ... you may finish book one but your probaly going to buy book two the second it comes out.

That said I can totally see myself playing this game nonstop for a couple months, maybe running through the PvE content several times with different builds and avatars. The interactive feeling of the game is pure additicion. And then once the PvE gets stale I may not play for a few months ... but you can be damned sure I will be eagerly awaiting the next "book" (expansion) in the Guildwars saga.

This is ok with me. GuildWars for me, is about getting to be a focal character in an epic fantasy story, a story that only moves when I choose to play the game. It's not about the time spent lving, it's about ME and MY actions in game.

Bamelin

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Personally I think the game world looks more "real" than any other MMO I've ever played. I agree the game caters to the Dungeon Seige/Diablo item crazy crowd but is that nessecarily a bad thing? Not every game out there has to be an EQ grind fest, nor do the items have to require a billion hours to obtain. I love the diversity of the items to be found, I love the diversity of pickup groups I find myself in. I've run into one idiot in my time PvE'ing. And that idiot was promptly turfed from the group within 5 minutes of joining.

But hell you get idiots like that in ANY mmo whether it's Guildwars OR EQ or whatever other MMO floats your boat.

One last note: Guildwars is not an MMO ... in the TRADITIONAL EQ sense of the word. But who said EQ/DAOC/AC/etc have the god given rights to the term MMORPG? GuildWars is reinventing what an MMO can be ... breaking the tired old traditions of monthly fees, endless levelling and static endless gameplay.

Bamelin

One last addition for my Vindy family:

The Ability/Spell system in Guildwars is akin to Magic The Gathering in the way one's primary and secondary profession's abilties and spells interact with each other. You could spend literally hours trying to craft the perfect avatar. Unlike DAOC, WoW, EQ and all the rest it only takes about 30 hours of gameplay to reach the level "cap" in Guildwars (which is lvl 20). All future expansions will be geared SOLELY to lvl 20 players.

What does this mean? Future content will be geared to YOUR avatars ... not a patchwork of content trying to appeal to dozens of different lvls with very little content for you level.

As well this means that you won't be "left behind" as power lvling is NOT a factor in GuildWars. If you have a family (like me) you don't have to devote your life to the game to "keep up" with your guild buddies.

Finally the fact that it's so easy to lvl up means you can actually play more than one avatar. In EQ it would be insane to try to lvl up more than one character .... In Guildwars when you start feeling "bored" of your charachter there are literally thousands more to try. Each avatar has hundreds of skills (spells or/and abilities) available to them ...

Another thing to note: GuildWars is FREE OF MONTHLY FEES You buy the client and that's IT. That ALONE makes this game worth the purchase. I and many other Vindy's have played this game and can tell you it totally rocks. Yes there will be expansions. All MMO's have expansions ... but think of Guildwars expansions as a continuation of a really great book .... the way the PvE missions work it's almost like being part of an interactive story along with your friends.

Finally PvP is all about skill ... not what lvl you are. Everyone caps out at lvl 20, it's about team strategy in the PvP arena's rather than what lvl you are. Hell if PvE (RPG) isn't your thing you can just pick a PREMADE lvl 20 avatar for PvP play.

Trust me guys give this game a try. It's THAT good,

Bamelin
The Vindicators
www.thevindicators.com

I would say that in many ways it does compare to Magic the Gathering. In both guildwars and Magic 50% of your "skill" is building the right deck or skill set. In magic you keep trying new decks and you tailor decks to your opponents. In GW you keep trying new skills sets and you tailor your skill set to your role and opponent. In both there is a constantly evelving Metagame that greatly influences ones choices of skills/cards.

The other way it is much like magic is that in both the focus is often on combos. The way to do the most damage or to be most effective is by having good combos and using them at the right time.

Yes, there are some similarities. But the PLAY is pretty darn different.

What is a good example? I know, chess and a RTS game like Starcraft. In both games getting the center of the map really helps out. You move your pieces around the board and fight for domination of the board. You move in for the final central building like the King and when it can't get away, you win.

However, the play could hardly be more differnent. You have a lot more time to think of your moves in chess, there is no "twitch" skills, and such.

So, I didn't mean to say there were no similarities to MtG and GW... in both, you choose a few skills from a large number and in both you have to worry about the "matchup" aka the metagame. You also have "counters" that can stop the casting of a spell. That is where the similarity stops though IMO.

A game could be built that was a LOT more like MtG even with teams of avatars, but GW decided to go a lot for action oriented gameplay and that was a great choice since such gameplay is very popular.

MtG is based around creatures fighting each other as just one example of the huge difference between them. Everything is built around creatures including the non-creature ways of winning.

Maybe they'll move it more towards MtG in the future... guess we'll see.

I'm only addressing the streaming technology issue because you have no knowledge of what you criticize and therefore the rest of your post is irrevelant. Especially since you infer I'm a fanboy when I clearly stated that I agreed Guild Wars is not truly unique. And don't worry I'll play your little game... and show uniqueness is an irrevelant argument from any standpoint. FIRST, though.. streaming technology isn't more loading times it's less... get the facts straight if your going to be posting in the forums (or ask if you don't know.. it's quite easy, but don't try to act like you know something that you have no idea about). An example, you download a map... it's downloaded. Now your playing in the map with your friends, and in the upper right hand corner you can see that your downloading something, likely the cinematic at the end of this particular map. So in essence you don't have a download time for that cinematic. Or, your in a town, there it is again.. guess we just downloaded a patch... hmmm. That was nice. Or wait, I stopped playing while downloading a patch, no worries it'll restart when I log back on. That's streaming technology, and while not new... it is definitely and great implementation of it.

Here's your game, lol, I'm describing a game.. see if you can guess what it is:
You have fun.
You play with others.
Those others are having fun too.
You meet a challenge with those others and how you work together means you win or lose.

Guess what game I'm describing... OR let's go the other way.

This game limits you to 8 skill slots.
This game has the classes Mesmer, Elementalist, Necro, Warrior, Monk, and Ranger.
This game has streaming technology and instanced maps.
This game has a level cap of 20.

WOW! Guess what game I'm describing... it truly seems uniqueness is a perspective of the person. While I agree that in my opinion (are you reading this, this time? or skipping over it), that guild wars is not truly unique to me. It has many similarities with other games... but then again if it didn't would anyone play it? I don't feel you have any argument on uniqueness being perspective...especially since I agree with you on that Guild Wars is not truly unique. Next time, read the post a little more carefully.

Lansing Kai Don

Its amazing how in-depth the denizens of this forum will go to describe something so simple .

This game isn't like Diablo II. World of Warcraft is Diablo III. This is more like Counter-Strike meets Magic the Gathering in terms of positioning while fighting and choosing from 400+ skills for attacks.

.. saying Guild Wars is modeled after Diablo 2 is saying Unreal was modeled after Doom.

Sure, they have obvious similarities--but, beyond the obvious, you're only serving to crutch yourself.

- edit -

Counter-Strike meets M:tG is a very apt comparison.

No it's not. GW does have a few unique features but it's not what makes this game highly unique. GW is truly innovative in the way existing features are selected from the gaming history and intelligently put together as a whole: MtG-like character building, fast paced PvP that require a lot strategy and teamplay, graphic engine & content incredibly better and efficient (no high end computer required) than your average game, global network (no more shards, just play with whoever you want), and fast streaming technlogy which do not require you to wait for 15min before you play with version 1.4.436-patchC.

But most of all, the gameplay content complexity and the game balance is what makes GW shine as compared to similar games. Just have a look at the theoretical articles & formulas on this site and you'll understand that behind the classical fantasy skin is hidden a very complex and unique game content.

Contrary to 99% of what you can find at your local retailer, this game is not just a clone of its predecessors. Playing all aspects of GW (PvP, PvE) is a highly unique experience.

Now, this sure sounds like a polite and intelligent flame bait to me. You have the right to disagree and to tell us why, but in my opinion, your average of 18 posts per day is quite a lot for a game that has nothing unique. Arguing endlessly with everybody in this thread won't get you anywhere.

If you don't like the so-called fanboy arguments, and if you want to pass on this thread, then feel free to do so.

Best way to describe this game.
Everything you wanted in Diablo2 magnified by 10.
Everything you didn't like in Diablo2 is not there.

Arena.net was formed by previous Blizzard employees (VERY IMPORANT people I might add)

So yes the games are somewhat similar, but unlike Blizzard they have better ideals to making a good game and keeping it successful.

The best thing about Guild Wars in my opinion is the number of options you have in the game. There are multiple quests, character customization is HUGE, strategy is a key factor in this game, and GRIEF is very limited in this game.

In D2 I probablly wasted over 100 hours of gameplay due to how many times my characters died and lost EXP.

In EQ you can Delevel for crying out loud, I mean how annoying is that?

In Guild Wars Death Penalty is more like having a Curse cast on you. It is a very hampering thing for you to have and could mean the difference of having to start over on a Mission or return to a previous town to start exploring the same area again. The Penalty for death is effective in GW, but atleast it isn't permanent.

doenst matter.. i was a huge fan of diablo now im a huge fan of gw..
yes, some things remind me of diablo.. but the game its whole diferent..
diablo 2 owned before now its time for gw

Lansing,

I dont think he actually knows how the streaming thing works