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Originally Posted by Savio
There isn't one. The original poster was just sharing their RA build. I chose to share my own.
When he posts a build here, is he asking everyone to read, think, and comment it? Or is there a point of posting it in forum? Simple logic.
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Actually, he said that Eviscerate is the only option for Axes. As the rest of us here play Warriors of varying weaponry (I play Swords and Axes, stopped playing Hammer months ago) we know there are other effective options. All I see the rest of us saying is either go Eviscerate or switch weapons. Quote any of us where we say differently.
Then why Eviscerate is the only option for Axes? Just because it has the highest potential for spike? Why Axe warriors cannot play a role like a sword warrior to bring "charge" and play as a split squads? You are assuming that Axe will do the highest damage no matter what, and you are assuming that all Axe warriors must be a spiker, but nothing else. So it is like you can either be an axe-spiker or use another weapon? So is it that other classes also has a "forumla" and "restrictions" that you must use a specific skill/weapon?
When you say this, you are assuming that Axe warrior actually has the most limited flexibility of game play. And you are assuming that only the build you've listed is the most effective. Then show me the numbers and statics that an Eviscerate-Axe warrior can be the ONLY OPTION ever for Axe warriors.
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If you read my build, you'd realize there are only 6 skills. Those 6 are the core of my build. I usually put in one other attack skill and a knockdown skill/attack. Disrupting Chop and Bull's Strike are the ones I'm currently playing around with, as runners and Res Sig are two quite prevalent occurences in RA.
The other skills are either interupt or knock down skill. They are not attacking skills which fits in your aim as a spiker. The fighting environment for RA is 4 vs 4 tight battle. That means you won't have much space and time to extend or to get away from target. So what is the point of being a spiker with only two attack skills (which require 8 adrenaline each)?
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Say target is running directly away from you (a rather bad move, as they should be strafing), which means that if you hit their backside while running, you get a critical. That's 63 damage with a max axe at 16 Axe Mastery. With any points in Strength, you'd be doing even more damage. Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike both do +42 damage, so each hit is 105 damage. Then the Deep Wound effect of Eviscerate reduces both max health and current health by 20%, at a maximum of 100 health. Against a base 480 health, that's 95 health. 105 + 105 + 95 = 305 damage.
There are 6 assumptions for the damage you've described:
- You have 16 Axe Mastery + high strength (probably 11/12+)
- The target is running away from you and you do a critical hit
- You have your adrenalines charged up for both skills
- You keep chasing the target (even you are over-tended from your teammates)
- The target has 480 health or more
- You can hit your target twice in a row before they got healed/they interupt you/you got blinded/you got knocked down/you got crippling/and more...
I doubt the probability and effectiveness under these assumptions.
Talking these assumptions, let me show you the damage of the sword skills:
- Sever Artery (4 degeneration x 26 seconds = 104 damage)
- Gash (55 critical hit +21 damage + deep wound = 55 + 21 + 96 = 172
- Final Thrust = 55 + 43 = 98 (or 55 x 2 + 43 = 153)
Total = 374 (or 429 if the target's health is below 50%)
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Deep Wound is the deadliest condition, and the Warrior's ability to inflict that with any weapon is one of the reasons they are so powerful. The only other class that is capable of inflicting it is a Mesmer. Eviscerate, Gash, Crushing Blow... these are skills you shouldn't go without for an attacking Warror.
Why it is the deadliest condition? Because it does -20% of the maximum health? How many times you die because you got poisoned, crippling, blinded, disease or more? There is NO "dealiest" thing in this game. Any condition/skill that can effectively kill you is "deadly" already.
In RA, battles are usually short and tight. Time is critical and you have to kill fast, especially you may not have a monk to heal you. I cannot see anything you can do if you are blinded. Or if a ranger keeps crippling you and giving you poison. What can you do? Keep running and use Healing Signet? Oh wait, you said you have high strength. Then how many tactics do you have? 9? So it is like +107 health?
The reason why I keep arguing with you guys is that you guys assume everything you said = 100% facts / 100% correct / 100% works / 100% accepted by all "pro" players. So are you the game designer of GW?
Everything you thought/said is all based on your personal experience. Then why your experience is something more worthy and is something that is more true than others? Who are you? Savio? Who is it?
I never said what I said is right. See your intention for argument is to prove what you said is absolutely correct, while what I'm arguing is that what you said may not be absolutely correct.
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Final Thrust is 10, Gash 7, Backbreaker 10, Devastating Hammer 7. The more powerful Elites obviously cost more for balancing reasons. I don't see an issue here.
There is not an issue of course. But it just shows that it may not be effective as a spiker under a time critical situation (i.e. RA/TA).
In balanced GVG group, you will have well communication with your guildmates, and you usually have much more time/space to engage in multiple fights. You can hit warriors nearby to charge up adrenaline and then spike the low AL casters.
But in RA/TA, you may not have enough opportunities to charge up your adrenalines fast in order to spike. You cannot even use Frenzy frequently since you will be an easy target by most casters (who will constantly cast spell/hexes/conditions/interupt) or even warriors most of the time.
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So, by your logic, if you have any skill that isn't a stance or shout, it's ineffective because it can be disrupted. Sorry, I'm not buying that. What if a necro's SS is interrupted? Energy Drain? A Res Sig? Do you toss them out because there's a chance that they might be interrupted? Those all are slower and more distinctive than Eviscerate, which under an IAS has a 8/9 second swing time. SS is 2 seconds, Energy Drain 1 second (faster with a primary Mes), Res Sig 3 seconds. As far as I've seen in RA, Eviscerate gets off easily, but try a Res Sig around a Ranger and you're begging to waste 3 seconds of your time. I'm still bringing Res Sig and Eviscerate, or whatever else I feel like bringing.
No, did I say that a skill is NOT effective if it is not a shout/stance? You have poor logic in thinking and interpretion. I said your build may not be effective because it only has two attack skills which both require 8 adrenalines. The "effectiveness" refers to how a skill contributes to the aim of your build, in this case, which is as a spiker.
There are many other skills which are extremely useful and effective. I will say Rez Signet is something which has very high effectiveness in RA/TA battles. And Rez Signet is effective no matter what build you are using.
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What does hammer have to do with axe? About the same as Mesmer has to do with Warrior. That is, there is no "better" profession or "better" weapon. You, who say we foam at the mouth over axes when we don't, attempt to say that hammers are better than axes just because a hammer warrior can knocklock an axe warrior. Talk about non-sequiturs.
Hammer/Sword/Axe are all melee weapons that only Warrior can have the maximum attribute points. They are related but not directly affecting each other as an individual build, but in a team formation. It all depends on one's personal preference and build.
I have mentioned a million times that no weapon is > another weapon. What I'm arguing is that you guys are valuing axe much higher than other weapons, or likewise, putting axe as the ultimate choice for a warrior. That is untrue.
Mesmer is definitely not related to Warrior. Why I mention mesmer? Read what you have written:
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Originally Posted by Savio
P.S. a Mesmer with proper build will own any Warrior in no time. That doesn't mean Mesmer>Warrior, or hammer>axe.
And see what I said:
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Originally Posted by lzlz
And does it related to another class? You and Yukito have a fallacy problem in argument, bringing irrelevant substances to support for something that is untrue. It is like you are arguing that "All dogs are mammal. So all mammal are dogs".
Are you supporting my own argument? Or you are putting what you have said (which is wrong) as something originated by me? OMG, that's pathetic.
You not only have poor logic, but also poor memory. I was arguing that it has nothing to do with mesmer (since you said that). And now you are just showing that you agree with what I've said.
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No, the OP just posted their build, and I posted my own. Don't see where you are getting a question from.
I believe most people who post a build here are asking for comments and opinions. Maybe they just want to show off and do not ask for any comments?
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"My base RA build W/:" (me)
"Res Sig - They decide many battles in RA." (me)
"Still usable in RA though." (Seef II)
"By the way, in the current RA situation" (me)
"Happens in RA" (me)
I don't see where any of us talk about GvG, at best Yukito refers to it as PvP, but he plays Arenas enough to understand exactly what to face. I mainly play Arenas anyway, so I couldn't completely describe the standard GvG warrior right now.
Yes, and see what I have said:
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Originally Posted by lzlz
The original poster is asking for a build in RA, not what you are assuming as in GVG (please open your eyes), and you seem to have knowing it too (see your own post you have mentioned it is for RA too).
Only losers will partially quote what others said.
I know you are talking about RA. But you seems to throw in situations that you will only encounter in GVG in a build that you so-called for RA only.
From your previous posts, you assume that a Warrior will not attack another warrior in GVG. But it is untrue in RA/TA. And that is what I'm arguing for. Thanks for reminding yourself that you are talking about the PVP in RA/TA. So do I.
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Let's take your reasons for one Warrior attacking another Warrior in RA:
See what I've said:
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Originally Posted by lzlz
In RA, it is most likely a warrior will attack another warrior. It is because sometimes maybe the whole opponent team are warriors. Or sometimes, there are always players who are not as "pro" as you do and they won't care anything but attack warriors first just to prove that they are "stronger". Some will just chase a monk or mesmer all around the map until they realize their whole team is dead already "rez please!!". There are all other new players who did stupid things in RA, EVEN in GVG. So I cannot see the point that a warrior will not be attacked by another warrior. This is just a stupid and unrealistic assumption, especially for RA.
I hope I have already answered your question in my previous post.
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How do you plan to take down a Warrior that has Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, or some other "tanking" skills? It's not by bringing defensive skills yourself.
So that means you won't attack a tank warrior for once even until all other 3 opponents died? What if only you and that warrior survive at last in the battle? Yes, definitely a tank warrior will be tough to 1 on 1 with. But isn't that "Eviscerate+Axe" = the "most deadliest" build ever for warrior? Do I miss something? Or what you said is wrong??? 
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Then what? Do you think they'll beat you down then? They're doing even less than the Warrior chasing that Monk or Mesmer around the map (and really, the Warrior should have a speed boost and/or snare, especially in RA where there are plenty of runners.)
Yes, they like running or they will just stand, taking all damage and think they are "god". So? You STILL won't attack him/her just because you are the superior "pro" players who will stick to the ultimate true theory --- "A Warrior will never attack another Warrior no matter what". Good for you, huh?
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You don't plan for the non-threats: the tanks, the Warriors who don't have their priorities straight. You plan for the major threats, like the ones I listed above, minus the cracks I made about Paladins.
Truly they are not a threat for damage. But are you a threat to them too?? Yes, "Warriors who don't have their priorities straight." (This is again an assumption for GVG. lol). So major threats = Monk and Mesmers, right? How do you spike them effectively with two skills while they are running around the map and a Paladin is chasing you at your back?
Oh wait, you have high strength. So you can heal your sufficiently? So you will have a monk with you FOR SURE, right? Nice. You are assuming an Axe-Eviscerate warrior is a all-rounded warrior who can tank + spike + never die even with hexes/conditions that you will encounter 90% of the time in RA/TA.
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And you have a problem because you keep thinking we're all diehard axe Warriors, which is completely wrong.
Oh really, then why you can only see the Up side of an axe, but not the Down side of it? Is it a merely personal preference + ignorant assumptions + self-centerness? Sure you do "NOT" love axe. Yea, please tell me you are not using an axe + bulwark now.
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Now who's trying to compare this to GvG? At any rate, swords are used quite often in GvG because of the value of "Charge!" there, which doesn't quite have the same impact in RA. Hammers, however, are quite renowned in Arenas for being able to knocklock and eliminate a target in RA because of the lack of support you find in 8v8 battles.
I am NOT comparing to GVG. I am just saying that you should not putting the situation in GVG (i.e. Warrior will not attack another Warrior) into RA/TA.
Yes, "Charge" is a valuable skill in GVG. But is it an excuse that a sword warrior MUST equip "Charge" or an axe warrior will not equip "Charge" for sure?
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Riposte isn't melee, it's counter-melee. It requires someone to hit you in melee. Rangers, except for bunnythumpers, don't hit you in melee. Mesmers don't, except for IW, and IW damage still goes through Riposte. Eles, Monks, and Necros definitely don't. So you have a counter versus roughly a sixth of the classes, and even then many Warriors will just switch to someone else once they see the damage from Riposte float up. So now you have a skill that counters those that either don't have a more important target to hit, in which case they'll hit you regardless of riposte, or those that are attack you because they're inexperienced, in which case you've already won.
Why you are sure that you must have already won if they attack you first? What kind of facts of numbers does your assumption base on? Merely because you are a "pro" player in game and all "noobs" will be no match with you? Is it a pathetic heroism for a team-playing game?
Riposte is counter melee. But it is an extremely useful skill which gives a credit for sword (because only sword can use this skill and no other axe skills give similar or even close effect). For a 4 adrenaline cost to give up to 89 damage, it is truly an effective skill for RA/TA battles, as compared to Eviscerate. For one Eviscerate charged up, I can use Riposte twice, and I didn't even count the chance that I can block your Eviscerta or Executioner's Chop.
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You conveniently forget Riposte's "conditon" of 4 adrenaline, and that it requires someone to hit you in melee. Riposte counters one specific class, while Eviscerate hits all 6 classes quite well. It's not like RA is severely flooded with Warriors; while they are a bit more popular there than other classes, you still have a large number of the other classes showing up to pummel you. And Riposte won't save you from that. Go post your effective RA build, if you so care to grace us with it.
Yes, of course. Please be reminded that I never treat Riposte as part of the attack skills of a RA warrior build. It is just something which will greatly help you when you encounter melee users (especially IW Mesmer or other warriors). I never like to post my build in forum cuz I don't like people to follow me. What is the point for everyone being the same? But I will tell you that I will never use a build like yours simply because:
- It has low spiking potential (with 2 attack skills only and no counter-block or counter-evade skills)
- It does not have any efficient self-protecting skills to against most situations that you will frequently encounter: hexes, conditions, interupt/knockdown, block/evade, IW mesmer
- I never trust a person who doesn't show that he/she is worthy or has enough credibility
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Originally Posted by Byron
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