Guild Wars Guru

2 man underworld smite runs? will this work?

3 pages • Page 1
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #1
I just did a couple of 5-man smite runs in Underworld and I got to thinking, maybe there is a way to reduce the "fluff" and get a REALLY optimized run. What good is a glob of ecto if somebody else gets it?

So here's the idea:

1 tank Aoe mage
1 Prot monk

After having tried the smite runs a few times, I know that as long as the Protection monk is careful they won't get attacked, so all they have to do is keep the tank alive. If the tank happened to do lots of AOE damage then who needs a nuker?

The idea is Protective Bond runs to reduce all damage to 5% of HP at the most. Life Bond on the tank to funnel damage to monk, Essense Bond to get 1 Energy for each damage, and Balthazar's Spririt on the monk to get 1 energy for each Life Bonded damage (probably reduced to 0 anyway) Once you get Protection up to 14 it only costs 2 energy to absorb the damage, so the system is self sustaining.

You put healing seed on the Tank which lasts 18 seconds, and will heal for 25 each time tank takes damage. If the tank can only take 5% damage each time, the lower their health the more effective all the heals are. For example, with 3 superior runes that's -225 health for a total of 255. 5% of that is only 13, and the seed would heal you 25 for each hit with a net gain of 12 extra health per hit!! For that 7 second period between seeds, there is the Signet of Devotion for 77+33=110 heal plus the Aura of Restoration on the mage should keep the health up nice and high. Plus the Blessed Signet will get you 12 energy back during off-times so you can keep your monk energy high.

Here are the skills:

Prot Monk:

Protection 10+4
Healing 11+1
Divine 10+1

Skills:
Life Bond
Protective Bond
Essense Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Blessed Signet
Signet of Devotion
Healing Seed
Rebirth


AOE Mage
Not really sure, could be anything. Put all Sup runes in though to reduce health.
Energy Storage: 10+3
Earth:11+4
Fire/Air: 10+3
No vigor, maybe add Sup runes for something you aren't using. the less HP the better

Skills:
Aura of Restoration
Lots of nukes
Maybe Elemental Attunement

I think this can work. I tested with Stefan and some Hydras and he tanked 3 of them no problem in the desert including their meteors. Unfortunately I don't have a partner yet to test in UW and Korea has it right now anyway, but I really think this could be the answer to effecient farming in UW. If you are really desparate you could add a second nuker who just casts from a distance so you kill 2x faster and only lose 1/3 of your drops. What do you think?

MiteeThoR
A
Aernok
Academy Page
• #2
Protective is 10% not 5 btw.
Garrett
Garrett
Academy Page
• #3
Yes this works, drops arn't very good atm though.
stumpy
stumpy
Jungle Guide
• #4
Protective Bond is 5% ... Protective Spirit is 10% ...

I would have to test this build to. How much will the AoE tanker take per hit though? Say they have 400 (sample) ... 20 damage / 2 for life attune = 10 damage? .... At that rate the sig of devotion is definately worth a shot. So every hit they would likely take 10 damage and you would take what 6? 4? Zero? Not sure how that calculation works but it look like zero. Does it still count as physical damage then? Do you gain your 2 energy from the spirit and essence?

Many questions I need to test when I get home... + for the ingenuity
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #5
Quote: Originally Posted by stumpy
Protective Bond is 5% ... Protective Spirit is 10% ...

I would have to test this build to. How much will the AoE tanker take per hit though? Say they have 400 (sample) ... 20 damage / 2 for life attune = 10 damage? .... At that rate the sig of devotion is definately worth a shot. So every hit they would likely take 10 damage and you would take what 6? 4? Zero? Not sure how that calculation works but it look like zero. Does it still count as physical damage then? Do you gain your 2 energy from the spirit and essence?

Many questions I need to test when I get home... + for the ingenuity The beautiful part is the amount of damage and the tank's armor is irrelevant. They could be hitting for 1000 and it would still be reduced to 5% of total life. Even when the Life Bond reduces the damage to zero, it still applies 0 damage to the monk, which triggers Balthazar's Spirit even though the monk doesn't get hurt.

Another great thing - the less life the tank has the better. For instance, say you were wearing 5 superior runes reducing your health to 105, and then had a 60% death penalty - you would only have 42 health, and 5% of that is 2 damage on any attack!! Just imagine, even a weak Orison would heal the tank back to full health.

If you had an Elementalist/Monk as your tank and they brought one Orison with maybe 4-5 in healing prayers they could supplement heal if things got a little scary. Or if you had a Smiting/Healing monk as your tank they could probably endure anything and just spam Zealot's Fire/Symbol of Wrath/Balthazar's Aura until everything was dead. Granted a smiter may not kill as fast but as long as the damage stays physical you could sustain this indefinitely.

Even if they occasionally use a skill/spell that bypasses the Life Bond, it can still be dealth with pretty easily. If you used the Signet 5 times per minute that's 12x5 energy you get back, and you only need to cast Healing Seed 2.5 times per minute which is 40 energy out of 60 per minute you get back - that's 20 spells per minute you can deal with, plus the fact you should have 40+ energy at all times you can get into quite a defecit of spells before you run out of energy, and the mob should be dead long before that happens.

I would think this could easily handle a mob of 4-5 UW monsters, and if your tank has some healing I don't see much of a practical limit. If they just switch to Heal/Reversal of Fortune (or better yet Mark of Protection or Mist Form) between Seeds they could concievably handle a mob of any size.

You just have to watch your aggro and make sure the Protection monk stays out of radar range. Cast Healing Seed and let the tank run up and engage, and you have 18 seconds before you have to get into healing range which should be plenty of time for the mob to lock onto the tank.

I really think this can work. My Hydra testing worked great using a fighter hencie, who was just swinging his sword over and over. Imagine some hard-hitting AOE by a caster tank loaded down with superior runes and I think 1 elementalist could handle anything.

MiteeThoR
t
theclam
Jungle Guide
• #6
I don't believe that Essence Bond works with Life Bond. Still, you could use something like Peace and Harmony instead.
Kha
Kha
Sins FTW!
• #7
Quote: Originally Posted by miteethor
Another great thing - the less life the tank has the better. For instance, say you were wearing 5 superior runes reducing your health to 105, and then had a 60% death penalty - you would only have 42 health, and 5% of that is 2 damage on any attack!! Just imagine, even a weak Orison would heal the tank back to full health. Actually, no. I use 4 superior runes when I'm soloing. With 45% DP (or somewhere between 45-30%), I only have 1 HP. DP affects original total, then runes are added into the equation. Just wanted to point that out.
Racthoh
Racthoh
Did I hear 7 heroes?
• #8
I've done it with 3, and it was beyond easy. If you want to try 2, I would have a w/e and a protection monk set up similar to what you suggested. Have the tank with Bonetti's to restore MP while dishing out spells. The other tank's skills I would use Gladiator's Defense, Riposte, and Deadly Riposte so the warrior can do something while standing there taking the attacks of the smites.
stumpy
stumpy
Jungle Guide
• #9
this could concieveably one of the most enjoyable apects in the game right now for me if it pans out tonight. While in idle until the release of the update for pve ... this would be alotta fun. I knew there was a way that it may work better than the standard pickup crowd ... but this is actually the first option I have ever seen put on the floor to test. So if the -60 actually affects the overall health ... what are we working with then 500 - 60% = 300 so no more than 2 superiors to be safe. that would leave a tank with -60% dp, and 2 sups ... at 50 health. much safer than 1 lol ... in case you aggro'd like 5 enemies who hit you once per second is 5dps your still safe to recast seed again.
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kha
Actually, no. I use 4 superior runes when I'm soloing. With 45% DP (or somewhere between 45-30%), I only have 1 HP. DP affects original total, then runes are added into the equation. Just wanted to point that out. That's interesting. It all makes sense of course now that I think about it because your'e death penalty should be applied first, then armor.

The question is, what happens if you have Protective Bond and 1 hp? Does it round down? Would that make you nigh-invincible? As long as you kept on Mending to counter-act the bleeding would you be immune to damage?
Obviously a scary proposition and wouldn't work against a lot of DOT stackers but in a physical PvE environment would it be feasable?

And even if not, having a health 105 with no Death penalty is pretty scary - max damage is 5 and Healing seed gives back 25 per hit? You could have 10 arrows of drain and still have max health all the time during combat...

MiteeThoR
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #11
I just did my first test and it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very important, do Protective Bond First, then Life Bond. The first time I did Life Bond first and it appears enchantment effects are applies from left to right (first cast is first calculated)

I can keep the tank alive indefinitely.
What Now Homie
What Now Homie
Banned
• #12
hey, i have a great nuker that can assist you, my in game name is Chemisty Set (yes i know its misspelled, sad that i noticed it when i was 3/4 into the game). I might get on here in 5 minutes if ya wanna try it out.
Kha
Kha
Sins FTW!
• #13
Quote: Originally Posted by miteethor
The question is, what happens if you have Protective Bond and 1 hp? Does it round down? Nope. It will be 1 dmg.
EmperorTippy
EmperorTippy
Jungle Guide
• #14
I tank with my lvl 8 monk with 10 HP in both UW and FoW and it works well. If you need a partener though my E/Mo will certanly be avalable. If you add in a couple of monks with spellbreaker this actually becomes a viable PvP build. My guild won HoH 4 straight times with the same basic idea and a little tweaking. Air spikers only doing 5 damage per spike was quite fun. Once we brought 5 people with spellbreaker though the tank really became invincible. He was a Mo/E so that all the other team would try to kill him while he sat there and nuked their priest and monks. He was also the resser so any deaths by the rest of us were quickly taking care of.
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #15
Did some more testing in UW.

Two man team is definitely workable, but the damage dealing is very slow. I don't think it's worth the effort to do it as 2 even though it's possible. My guinea pig Ele was getting interrupted during all of his slow-cast AoE's and kept switching out his skills to faster ones, and he didn't quite have an optimal setup as far as Runes for our test.

I was able to easily keep him alive with 4-5 Ataxes on him at once. He would deliberately run and gather as many as he could and they couldn't touch him. We also survived a group of 3 Ataxes and 5-6 of those Squids on him at once. That was a close call but he didn't die and killed them all.

Later on we picked up an Air Ele and did some 3 man, one Ele in front doing Aftershock/etc. and the Air Ele in back with me droping lightning on everything. The Cleaning went much quicker - we got all the Ataxes and then went into the chamber and killed everything and completed the 5000 pt quest. We picked up the first quest after that and the guy you have to kill is a necro who rended all the enchants off. If the Ele had SpellBreaker or something to keep the enchants on we would have been ok.

Didn't get to test smites, we just happened to walk in the other direction during testing. I don't think smites would be any harder as long as we keep our aggro under control. I have to say I am very pleased with my initial testing.


P.S - the Ataxes were only doing between 6 and 9 damage to my ele who has 60 armor
Red Locust
Red Locust
Site Contributor
• #16
Yep, you could get through every single mission and EA in the game with just a tank and a prot monk. Other than enemies that use lingering/rend/natures renewal, of course.
stumpy
stumpy
Jungle Guide
• #17
and DoT. I thought about testing this in thunderheadkeep but realized that the long battles wouldn't work to my favour with the DoT. Anywhere there is direct physical damage ... this will do well.
NFiNiTE
NFiNiTE
Ascalonian Squire
• #18
A great build for the monk, it really works.. my friend and I are really excited, so since there are so many specifics for the monk, I thought I would add a few pointers for the Elementalist.

First of all, I bought the Ascalon set of armor, just in case the mobs like to target the creature with lower armor, they would not accidentaly head towards the monk... hey, armor doesn't matter right ... as Elementalist type, E/Mo is my choice -- reasoning to follow.

Attributes:
11 + (1-3) _______ Magic
9+3 ________ Magic
8+4 Energy storage
8 Healing

Skills:
Flare/Stone Daggers/Ice Spear
4 PBAoE Attacks
Aura of Restoration
Mending
Ether Renewal {E}

So with this build you have the option for up to 3 superior runes. The blanks are for whatever you desire to choose. The desired types of skills are Point Blank Area of Effect (PBAoE) skills. These have the shortest cast time, spike damage, and comparatively better recharge time than AoE attacks. So the choice of two magics gives you the ability to stack effects -- water hex with lightning touch, whirlwind then aftershock -- it's all up to your preference. The 8 Healing Prayers is for Mending to counter the bleeding the ataxe may incur on your elementalist.

Finally, the skill that got me extremely excited was the elite skill Ether Renewal... your elementalist will have crazy amounts of enchanments on him/her -- the 3 bonds, aura of restoration, mending, and ether renewal -- this way, when you cast flare/stone daggers/ice javelin you will be getting back [(6 x 4) - 5] = 19 energy. So when your energy gets down to 15, cast ether renewal, and spam your flare/stone daggers/ice javelin and your energy should be replenished in a matter of seconds.

In theory, it looks like it will work. I'm not sure how we will fare against those energy suckers, but maybe we won't even do that and go straight for the smites.

Hopefully that gives a little definition to the elementalist part of the strategy.
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #19
I did some more testing today - My Mage parther is a E/Monk so he can do Essense Bond and Balthazar's Spirit on himself for energy gain, plus he has Ether Renewal - it takes 3 spams of Divine Boon to re-fill his bar to full. He was running with all Smiting skills. Kind of sucks because he was a monk secondary so we have to stay maxed at 12 smiting, but he did get the benefit of Ether renewal so its probably a wash.

We are EASILY handling Ataxes, Squids, and Smites with a 2 man team. The only problem spot is the Colfires since I don't get full energy back on their elemental attacks. We can handle them as a 2-man team but the Malestroms hurt my caster/tank and interrupt casting, so it takes a while but is definitely doable.

I can't wait to try this with a Monk with 16 smiting!! Smites take double-damage against holy, they drop in like 15 seconds.
m
miteethor
Academy Page
• #20
Some comments based on some further testing...

- Bleeding from Ataxes is not an issue. The Healing seed is going at +15 health gain per hit, and bleeding is only 6 dot per second. As long as the caster tank is engaged you can safely ignore bleeding - that way you don't have to wasted a spot on mending

- My caster ran Balthazar's Spirit and Essense Bond on himself. If in a mob of 4-5 Ataxes that's 10 Energy per second that is fed to the caster. He also had Ether Renewal and Divine Boon (Divine Boon was at minimum since he's a secondary) and he was literally spamming Divine twice per second almost all the time, triggering Zealot's Fire damage in addition to the other stuff.

- Fire only does about 1/3 damage to Ataxes, and 1/2 damage to ColdFires

-Holy damage is Full strength

- A blast of 100 Lignthing with 25% penetration does about 90 dmg to an Ataxe

- We tried running Retribution / Holy Wrath and found that no matter what order we applied the enchantments these always took affect after the protective bond. We also know that the order you pu on Life Bond/Protective Bond is very important - one works and the other kills you in 2 hits.

- As an E/Mo most mobs were dropping in around 60-90 seconds. This is with only one damage dealer, I assume adding a ranged Ele would cut that time in half.