Glyph vs. Echo Nuker

For the purposes of new UW, i started playing nuker again. While I did change to /Me secondary, i found that i have more success using Glyph of Renewal rather than Echoed Meteor Shower.

Glyph of renewal 5/1/15
For 15 seconds, your next spell recharges instantly.

Arcane Echo 15/1/30
If you cast a Spell in the next 20 seconds, Arcane Echo is replaced with that Spell for 20 seconds. Arcane Echo ends prematurely if you use a non-Spell skill.

With Glyph, i usually go:
-Glyph of Renewal
-Meteor Shower
wait for GoR to recharge
-Glyph of Renewal
-Meteor Shower
if i need an immediate spike, then i do
-Glyph of lesser energy
-Meteor Shower

This effectively gives a meteor shower every 15 seconds. With Arcane Echo however, i can do
-Arcane Echo
-Meteor Shower
-Glyph of Renewal
-Meteor Shower(echoed)
-Glyph of Lesser Energy
-Meteor Shower (echoed)
However, since the original Meteor Shower has recharge of 60 seconds, this leaves me with only 3 MS per minute, or one less on average.

Am i missing something? The most useful thing about /Me secondary I found is Mantra of Resolve. Since the place is interrupt heavy, i found that its the only skill that saves me from wasting casts due to interrupts, Mantra of Concentration seems unreliable to me.

Am i missing something, since everyone is advertising Echo nukers only?

no, you are not missing anything, Glyph of Renewal does give more Meteor Showers per minute than Arcane Echo but, consider the following:

-Glyph of Renewal consumes your elite space whereas Arcane Echo allows you to repeat Meteor Shower and still have another Elite of your choice. Glyph of Energy to reduce exhaustion, Mind Burn for total ownage, Mantra of Recall, or, my secret, Mantra of Resolve so that each Meteor Shower only takes 30 seconds to recharge, which can give you a lot more MS than Glyph of Renewal can (especially if you have the 20% chance of faster recharge with your weapons).

-Glyph of Renewal must be waited every 15 seconds to cast, whereas with Arcane Echo, the Echoed MS can be cast instantly after the first one was cast. Thus, this basically gives you 2 MS on the board for a quick damage spike, whereas the Glyph will just give you constantly 1 Meteor Shower. Personally, I would take the 2 MS on the board at once, and when you finish with one area, just make sure your team lets you wait for your recharge.

-Though it may be small, Glyph of Renewal is only the next 15 seconds whereas Arcane Echo is 20 seconds. This extra 5 seconds could be the difference between getting off multiple Meteor Showers, and being stuck crying with only one Meteor Shower.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Mo Show Glyph of Renewal must be waited every 15 seconds to cast, whereas with Arcane Echo, the Echoed MS can be cast instantly after the first one was cast. Thus, this basically gives you 2 MS on the board for a quick damage spike, whereas the Glyph will just give you constantly 1 Meteor Shower. Personally, I would take the 2 MS on the board at once, and when you finish with one area, just make sure your team lets you wait for your recharge. I don't believe this is correct. Glyph of Renewal is "your next spell recharges instantly". The moment you finish casting your first MS, the renewed one is available (exactly as in A-echo). You can have exactly the same 2-MS spike as with A-echo, but of course you lose the ability to fire off an MS every 15 seconds since you have to wait for the recharge.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Mo Show

aye, imo Glyph of Renewal is total ownage. I also went in twice to the new UW with a Glyph nuker build and both times I got NOTHING! :'(

I had a look at this and it really didn't work well for me. I like to echo nuke and fire a glyph of energy off in the middle to conserve energy on my 2nd nuke. Unfortunately both, glyph of energy and renewal are elites. Also, elemental attunement is elite so I'm left with only fire attunement for buffed energy preservation. I know I'm thinking too much like an elementalist here and Im sure there is a mesmer skill(s) that will trap the energy for me, but in my experience using elementalist skills glyph of energy + fire attunment is the way to go. I use arcane echo with these and after a good nuke my energy rarely drops below 70.

Well, since there's no right or wrong way, this is the build i ended up having most success with in the new UW (tombs).

Fire: Max (1 + 3)
Energy St.: 10 + 1
Earth: 6 + 1 (can also use +4 if i exchange head set)
Inspiration: 5

Rago's staff, or galigords staff (if earth is at 9)

Fireball
Ward Against Melee
Glyph Of Renewal [E]
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Arcane Echo
Fire Attunement
Mantra of Resolve

When nuking, i'll go GoR + MS every 15 seconds, throwing a fireball as needed.

If things get out of hand, i do have a rather large combo at disposal: Echo, MS, GoR, MS (echoed), GoLE, MS (echoed)

Ward against melee is an emergency action, that has proven surprisingly useful, when grasps escape the tank, and agro the group. While Fear Me still annoys, at least it helps with damage dealt.

Fireball is there to help kill off stragglers.

Energy management is not really an issue, since exhaustion is the main problem. Using the 3 or 4 MS in a row will simply destroy the energy pool. However, the only groups that i've had success with, are the ones that will actually wait for casters to regen. If the group didn't have that much patience, to wait 30 seconds before engaging, we never made it past second level.

Mantra of Resolve seems a bit risky at first (5 energy on each interrupt), but i've found that as long as there is at least minimal agro management in group, it will save me that one or two stray interrupts, that would otherwise stop me. Mantra of Resolve proves completely useless in Ring of Fire for example, where the breeze keepers (?) or phantoms (?) drain the 80+ energy in 2 seconds, but it works for the UW.

Most of the time, i'll just end up doing the 15-sec MS, and fireballs, so exhaustion is not main issue.

Getting fire attunement stripped however hurts a lot.