I'm having trouble getting past mobs... EotN...

Hi, I'm new at this game and I just completed factions. I'm going on EotN. I am a minion master Necro with 6 Heroes (lvl 20) and a healer henchmen.

I'm having such a tough time getting past mobs... especially when they use a skill where I can't heal any of my minions in the given area.

I couldn't beat the mob comprised of wizards, necros, and healer zombies in that mission map because... well my party is just stuck together in a mob and when 3 wizards cast an AoE you just die instantly.

I didn't have this much problems when I was doing factions... and I was only using henchmen back then.

*I didn't set my hero's secondary profession or play around with the skills that they had. It would explain why I have a tough time with regular mobs around the area, sure - but it won't help me out when I'm dying within 2 seconds of meeting the enemy.

*I have the regular ascolan armor 60.... just a typical noob armor.

The thing that just angers me is the fact that I can't control the heroes individually (I'm a micro kind of guy)... if I spread them out, then the AoE spells won't affect me as much and my healers would have time to heal my party... at least give them a fight before going down.

Any helpful comments are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

What do you mean you can't control your heroes individually?

You have the ability to flag the 1st 3 heroes in your party separately using the flags at the bottom of the compass window. You can also then separately flag the remaining 4 members of your party (heroes or henchies) away from youre 1st 3 heroes. And you can most definitely micro-manage ALL of your heroes skills/spells by simply displaying their skill bar and clicking the spells you want each to cast as well as the target you want them to cast it at if you really want to get to the minutia.

Use the flags to separate your party into essentially 5 groups (3 single hero groups with the first 3 flags, 1 4 hero/hench group with the 'all party' flag and then yourself). Position them well (I usually have my MM as one of the 1st 3 since he usually has a minion mob for his own "party", as well as a SOS Rit with his spirits and one Mes to help with spell shutdown that I like to position as needed). Cast whatever pre-combat skills needed (ie. get your spirits up, cast wards, etc). Then you pull the mob towards you and then wail away. Even better is if you learn how to use angles and edges and walls to cause the pulled mob to bunch together where you can basically wipe them out within seconds if you have any of the more popular hero builds (Panic, SS, Minion bombs, etc).

What I've noticed is enemy casters are actually less prone to cast heavy AoE spells if your party is separated as compared to if you're party is all bunched together. But in any case doing so will take pressure off your healers to try to keep the party up.

Obviously it also helps if you know which members of the enemy mob are the biggest dangers and go for them first. Uuuuusally (not always) it's the enemy healers that you want to wipe first (especially in some HM areas). Then it's the AoE foes (enemy Eles with Searing Flame, Meteor Swarm, etc, etc). Then the Necro foes (especially if they can summon minions). Usually the melee foes are last NOT first (which usually is the first foes you auto target since they usually charge ahead towards you. Of course that's not always the case since with Afflicted mobs in WoC, Necromancers become the biggest threat to wipe your party so you go after them first...for example. You should learn your enemies.

If it's your first time playing with heroes, then chances are good you don't have a lot of skills for them. This is the drawback of heroes. Unlike henchmen who are almost always well skilled, heroes start with basic skills that aren't always the dandiest. So you may want to spend some time finding the right types of skills for your heroes. If you don't have the resources or patience to acquire skills for your all your heroes then I would suggest going with 3 heroes and then the rest henchmen. Put the 3 heroes as the top 3 in your party (so you can separate them) then flag the henchies with the all party flag. Henchmen by default have better skills than heroes out of the box.

I see. I'll look into getting some skills for my heroes. Didn't know henchmen had better skills... haha.

Ty for your input. Appreciate it.


And yea, I can flag em. I got through that mob by flagging my M.O.X. to a certain area to draw the mob away to him and clear the passage so that I can run my ass off and reach the portal. It's just that afterwards I felt... unaccomplished. It just felt bad because there must've been something I wasn't doing. I mean... this is just a general mob. You usually don't die to general mobs... lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by kidochipark

I see. I'll look into getting some skills for my heroes. Didn't know henchmen had better skills... haha.

Ty for your input. Appreciate it.


And yea, I can flag em. I got through that mob by flagging my M.O.X. to a certain area to draw the mob away to him and clear the passage so that I can run my ass off and reach the portal. It's just that afterwards I felt... unaccomplished. It just felt bad because there must've been something I wasn't doing. I mean... this is just a general mob. You usually don't die to general mobs... lol. Sure no problem.

Henchmen by default has better skills. Heroes are still the way to go as they CAN get better skills than henchmen. But right out of the box, heroes usually only have 5 skills and none of them are elite. Henchmen (always) usually have at least one elite skill and some of them have really potent skill bars (i.e. Cynn, Herta, Lo Sha, Menhlo, Odurra, etc). Your job, should you choose to do so, is to arm your heroes with great builds. Once you do, they obviously become better than henchmen. I currently only use heroes.

My preferred hero mixes (and they are by no means ideal, ideal but are more than fine in just about every area even in HM except the elite areas like DoA, etc) are:

When I'm on my Derv

1. MM Necro
2. SoS Rit
3. SoGM Rit
4. Mes (either Ineptitude or Psychic Instability build)
5. SS Necro
6. Resto Necro
7. Panic Mes
8. LoD Healer (Dwaynas Sorrow is great skill in combo with a necro minion bomber since you get healed while doing damage when the minions explode)

When I'm on my Rit (SoS is still best for general PVE stuff)

1. MM Necro
2. SoGM Rit
3. Mes (either Ineptitude or Psychic Instability)
4. SS Necro
5. Resto Necro
6. Searing Flames Ele
7. Panic Mes
8. LoD Healer

Using flagging, pulling, angles and knowing who to target in what sequence I rarely have any problems. My rit's got near 7M experience and has died only 208 times and a good number of those was from early on just getting used to playing.

Also if you can you should rune up your heroes armor. Because I like completeness and have had a good amount of gold on my hands every hero I actively use has a major rune of their dominant skill and at least a lesser vigor rune (to offset the healt loss from the major rune). Expensive but having each hear have a 15 skill in their primary skill cat helps really pump up the volume.

Ok first... you need at LEAST 2 heroes that heal your party... even in some Normal Mode places.... having one healer wont do at all.

In hard mode you need 2 healers and some form of protection... either ST Rit a Prot monk... or another Player (or you) spamming Save Yourselves.

When teams are broken down to their basic elements.. these 3 heroes (or Players) are almost always needed.
UA Monk
HB Monk
St Rit / Imbagon player

Everything else is is damage.... sometimes a tank is also needed....

so to recap

3 people in the party MUST be support roles..
1 to take damage [tank] ( SoS rit can also do this.. unless its a HERO) hero SoS can not tank at all
everyone else is damage...

Ideally:
Assassin tank (player only)
SoS (hero or player) SoS can tank in most areas making an a tank not worth having
Panic / Keystone Mesmer ( player or hero)
HB monk (hero / player)
UA monk (hero / player)
ST Rit (hero or player) or Imbagon (player only) or a Protection Monk (hero or Player)
2x damage of any kind ( player or hero)

[ note: most monks can play healer and Protection ( tank only gets Prot) at the same time keep that in mind}

Ty guys. I'll try to get more skills for heroes....

Ugh. It's gonna take so much more time unlocking those skills since I only have the necromancer.

Just an idea... can you buy skills for your heroes too? I'm not at my original computer but when you go to someone who sells skills... is there like a tab where you can purchase skills for those heroes?

Few other things to keep in mind:

Are your heroes set to Fight, Guard or Avoid Combat? Healers heroes should ideally be set to avoid combat...because it can't be said enough that if your healers are fighting they're not healing your party. The rest of your heroes should be set to Guard, otherwise they will run off and overaggro.

Unlike henchmen, you are responsible for choosing your heroes' skillbars/runes/insignia/weapons. If these are the EotN heroes (Jora, MOX, Ogden, etc.), while they come at max level 20, they won't have complete skillbars. The nice thing is that as you unlock skills for your toon, these skills will become avail to your heroes as well (and the heroes of any other toon on your account). It is well worth it to look up what bosses are in an area you will be in to see if there is an elite that can be captured for use by yourself or your heroes. You will also want to make certain your heroes have good weapons and runes on their armor.

For your necro...do you have all your toon's attribute points? If they are native Factions toon, there are two side quests back on Shing Jea to get the last 30 attribute points. And good rule of thumb...try not to split your (or your heroes') att points between more than 3 attributes. One of those should always be your primary att...for necros, that's Soul Reaping.

As other ppl have mentioned, flagging your heroes is important, as well as watching, then pinging and pulling mobs to you rather than running in. EotN is generally a bit harder than the full campaigns as it was intended for slightly more experienced players.

Finally, if you would like skillbar advice,there is also a forum in the Campfire section you can ask for feedback on.

Quote: Originally Posted by Meow Ren

Few other things to keep in mind:

Are your heroes set to Fight, Guard or Avoid Combat? Healers heroes should ideally be set to avoid combat...because it can't be said enough that if your healers are fighting they're not healing your party. The rest of your heroes should be set to Guard, otherwise they will run off and overaggro. Omg I think you just pin pointed my problem... my 2 warrior heroes just wander off to kill enemies about a mile away and end up getting killed before my healer could heal them.

Where can you set those settings for the heroes?

Quote: Originally Posted by kidochipark

Quote: Originally Posted by Not New

Ok first... you need at LEAST 2 heroes that heal your party... even in some Normal Mode places.... having one healer wont do at all.

In hard mode you need 2 healers and some form of protection... either ST Rit a Prot monk... or another Player (or you) spamming Save Yourselves.

When teams are broken down to their basic elements.. these 3 heroes (or Players) are almost always needed.
UA Monk
HB Monk
St Rit / Imbagon player

Everything else is is damage.... sometimes a tank is also needed....

so to recap

3 people in the party MUST be support roles..
1 to take damage [tank] ( SoS rit can also do this.. unless its a HERO) hero SoS can not tank at all
everyone else is damage...

Ideally:
Assassin tank (player only)
SoS (hero or player) SoS can tank in most areas making an a tank not worth having
Panic / Keystone Mesmer ( player or hero)
HB monk (hero / player)
UA monk (hero / player)
ST Rit (hero or player) or Imbagon (player only) or a Protection Monk (hero or Player)
2x damage of any kind ( player or hero)

[ note: most monks can play healer and Protection ( tank only gets Prot) at the same time keep that in mind} Once you gain access to more powerful skills and more efficient builds you can change the ratio of support/damage closer towards the damage side. Its about finding a balance that works first, and then fine tuning by removing healing and support that you don't need. The most effective builds generally run one prot and half a bar of healers on another healer, with other support elsewhere(e.g minions or spirits) but that's advanced stuff.. Also remember you can split multiple roles amongst your bars. Necromancers make very good healers due to soul-reaping providing them alot of energy.

Henchmen will probably work well in nm as you build up an arsenal of skills for your hero's. Theres a whole lot of information on the Hero and AI forums here on guru, and in the GWPvX database. have a look there for some inspiration. ^^

Skills for your heroes: Get to Nightfall.. if you have it...play the story line to bring up your Sunspear title up.... In Kamadon there is a NPC called 'hero Skill trainer" something or another.. next to regular skill guy... unlock as many skills as you can.....go back allot

Next to the heroes in the Party menu ( press P in in explorable areas) there is a triangle.. press that triangle brings up hero menu

You will see the 3 options for heroes there.....Unless it's a monk that does nothing but heal.. always choose the middle option.. "Guard Mode"

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Quote: Originally Posted by Sinny survivor

Once you gain access to more powerful skills and more efficient builds you can change the ratio of support/damage closer towards the damage side. Its about finding a balance that works first, and then fine tuning by removing healing and support that you don't need. The most effective builds generally run one prot and half a bar of healers on another healer, with other support elsewhere(e.g minions or spirits) but that's advanced stuff.. Also remember you can split multiple roles amongst your bars. Necromancers make very good healers due to soul-reaping providing them alot of energy.

Henchmen will probably work well in nm as you build up an arsenal of skills for your hero's. Theres a whole lot of information on the Hero and AI forums here on guru, and in the GWPvX database. have a look there for some inspiration. ^^ Indeed... I was not gonna get into the Discord / Mesway thing with him yet... let him learn the the curve if you will..... necros make better healers in the long run.. but he needs to learn why that is based off traditional builds first .. then discover Meta builds later on when he knows enough. Combining builds early on "could" lead to disaster without learning the context of how skills work together... I'm sure you know what I mean....

Quote: Originally Posted by kidochipark

Another way also is to change your secondary ...buy a sig of capture and cap the Elite or whatever for your hero.

There are many ways to unlock the skills for heros ,providing its the one you wish..using the hero skill trainer also

I can see that you may think you can roll an area with no difficulty but if your team is not runed up/ with skills that synergise with the team then you will be in the same situation a lot.
Hop over to factions spend some time correcty doing as others have said also and then return and progress from there

I know I'm rushing through the game... and I mean quick. But I was just alerted - I steamrolled through factions no problem... and now I have difficulty on simple mobs on the world map at eotn.

Thanks for all your input. I read them all and learned a thing or two from everyone here. And yes, I will do the daily farming of zaishen elite. =D ty for that info

Guild Wars isn't too noob-friendly is it? lol. I have so many things that I didn't know about. Though I understand... guild wars 2 is coming out and they were working on that.

Ty again for your info. One question.. is the 'hero Skill trainer" available anywhere else? I'm not planning to do Nightfall yet. I wanted to get some monuments up so that I can plan my points as quick as possible. (Yes, I'm one of those people who just want to play this game for the HoM points)

Don't forget zaishen elite.
Take a few days to unlock a trapper build and you could do it practically solo or with a pug for 6k faction/day in a few minutes. With the faction you can unlock skills rather fast.
And regarding builds i wouldn't advise jumping to discord, or any other high performance hero build. You seem quite new to the game and should try to learn the mechanics as much as you can before turning on the easy mode.

At last i would advise to leave EOTN for last. Get the early heroes and leave it alone. Go for NF and clear it then proph (or the other way around, if you wish. Proph as skill quests NF has more heroes) and by then you should be ready for anything.

Quote: Guild Wars isn't too noob-friendly is it? lol. I have so many things that I didn't know about. Though I understand... Oh, i'd say it's extremely noob-friendly, except for the PvP side starting with RA and going further. The thing is, it takes time to learn and master the game - the learning curve of Factions is nowhere near perfect, thus starting in Prophecies is always advised if you actually are new and want to learn. However the crucial thing to realise is that GW requires much more in-depth analysis of the system and the game's mechanics than other MMOs in order to be good at it (i won't even mention getting to the top). This game is not about farming fat gear so that you're superior than others, including mobs; it's not about powerleveling or enchanting your weapon/skills in order to be more powerful. It really requires knowledge and player skill as opposed to gear-based games, that is, pretty much every other regular MMO.
That said, if you are willing to learn, if you are at least a bit observant and analytic, if you are actually even aware that you need to pay attention to the mechanics and possible ways out of harsh situations that are not based around your gear, but team build, tactics and your own player reactions, the game is not hard to get into. It takes some time, but then, day by day, becomes intuitive and feels really natural.
What was important to me, when i was learning the basics, was that this game in terms of mechanics is much closer to Magic: the Gathering rather than Lineage 2. You need to know the rules, you need to be familiar with how the AI works, how the damage is calculated (i don't mean memorizing the formula, but at least take a look at it and become aware of what's important), in short: how the game plays out, what are its rules. Then they have to become your rules. And then you have to think how to take advantage of them, or simply how to become natural, fluent and powerful within their restrictions, using them to your own gains.
And, i must admit, it's one of the best parts about Guild Wars, especially when opposed to other games.

Quote: Originally Posted by Flameseeker

At last i would advise to leave EOTN for last I disagree on this... EotN has some easy titles (for hom) that bring a lot of heroskillpoints (easier to unlock skills for heroes), very good pve-only skills (make certain pve-things a lot easier), easy to obtain heroes, fairly cheap elite armor (for hom), inscripable weapons (easier to make those perfect for yourself + your heroes), good farms (cash, weapons, rep points)... and it is fun and hardly related to the campaign stories.

If you want to rush through stuff or hate the thought of chasing skills...and assuming you have an extra $40 you can feed anet...you could just buy the 4 skill packs. Wont help your characters ( they still wont have access to em) but will give your heroes instant access to every single skill there is. Then its just a matter of unlocking heroes and figuring out which builds you want to use. Also allows you to experiment as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by kidochipark is the 'hero Skill trainer" available anywhere else? I'm not planning to do Nightfall yet. Hero skill trainers are very limited -- and you have a limited number of "hero skill points" to trade to them, as well. A majority of your hero's skill unlocks will probably be obtained from normal skill trainers scattered throughout the game.

If you don't want to/can't afford the skill unlock packs, I wrote a Guide for cheaply unlocking starter skills for your heroes. It can start you on the road to skill collection while you earn the money for the better skills deeper in the game.

Quote:

I wanted to get some monuments up so that I can plan my points as quick as possible. (Yes, I'm one of those people who just want to play this game for the HoM points) You're probably aware that your accomplishments build up, regardless of the monuments/tapestries in your Hall. You can display them at any time. And you can track your progress in a lot of the titles in your "H"ero menu. However, if you're in a rush to get the tapestries displayed so you can track your overall progress in the HoM calculator, but are having trouble with North content, you could always buy your tapestries from other players. Put up an ad in the trade channel in the Eye of the North outpost and I'm sure you'll find a seller. They're typically had for 1-3k each.

You guys were right (duh of course...)

I changed my entire party to henchmen and then I cruised over to the next city.

.... fml.

I better work on getting skills -.-; And it seems a bit silly to spend $40 on guildwars now.

Ty for all your inputs. Got my answer.