Update - Thursday, July 21, 2011

What is wrong with Minister Cho's HM?

Where is my ele fix????

So now Turtle shots not only knockdown and remove enchants, but they can go through solid rock.

When the luxons cry enough that they start having turtles fly, I'm out.

err i dont pvp and even tho its not split etc - what the hell is shadow walk actually used for and why the change ?
I cant really recall any builds in pve that uses it - tho i suspect its pvp related and probably soon we`ll have the old pve/pvp slip versions.

You know, even though this was a small update, and it didn't fix my lovely elementalist, it isn't a bad update at all.

FA/JQ bug fixes at last! Isn't that what everyone has been asking for? It's interesting that, ever since the official GW forum for bugs opened, they have been fixing stuff that had been left ignored for years.

Mind Wrack was begging for a nerf too. Now, especially for RA, E.Surge builds won't be as dominant over other mesmer alternatives, while still remaining an useful option.

More slight dervish nerfs. Now less damage and less armor! Getting a bit better...

For Shadow Walk I don't understand, though. Which builds use it?

Now, for the next pvp update, bring B.Flash energy's cost back to 15, nerf B.Surge, and further and carefully nerf one or two extra dervishes skills. And after that (being wishful) nerf the pvp meta! Or bring new options for more diversity, because it needs to drastically, IMO.

For PvE, I still want an elementalist update... They have two useless PvE-only skills: it's the perfect oportunity to fix their problems in Hard Mode. Rangers and Paragons would need more work, and well, elementalists too, but that would be such an easy fix for the biggest ele's problem. Two elementalist skills, anet, just two!

Doubt the armour nerf will do much; they all use AoB anyway. The recharge on Pious Fury should achieve something though.
At least FD has been eliminated but that was never the root of the problem.

Shadow Walk is sometimes used by Assassins in GvG (and in JQ by bombing builds) although Wastrel's Collapse is more common now; they use these shadowsteps to move around the map effectively and hence are common in split builds.
I'm not too sure why it was changed; although a shorter recharge does affect how much a person can achieve before they're moved back to their initial position and since the recharge is the same as before (30 seconds) they can't immediately step again.

The skill wasn't split because nobody uses Shadow Walk in PvE.

It's still about 10 armor less, though, with or without AoB. That translates to what, 25% more damage?

Of course not, after the numerous nerfs to shadowsteps in general over the years because of PvP and in relation to PvP of course it's not going to be fit for PvE.
Hmph while they are at it they should've split all shadowsteps for PvE like rit spirits, that would've made this update more interesting.

16%. But remember that dervs are already going to be pretty durable with 85 armour (Blessed insignia + defense mod) and the +20 from AoB against physicals; they're by no means squishy.
Non AoB builds are going to suffer more I think.


To be useful in PvE beyond a single cast they need a recharge of 10 seconds or less. Even then the advantages they give are so minor that it's not really worth it.

suspect anet will boost some other class before they put dervs back in order, a pity that the pvp population will be substantially fewer than it is currently

I think they haven't been able to fix the turtle "stuck" glitch, but they were able to get the campers off the wall. Better than nothing

Holy...really? Fixes for FA/JQ? Hot damn. The turtle attack ignores walls thing is the quickest and dirtiest way to "fix" the whole "ranger sits on top of the castle and snipes orange turtle" thing. I'm fine with that; make Kurzicks need to actually kill the thing.

The sign of a good update? When the only bitching you see in Guru is "this isn't enough".

You can still halt the turtle by standing on the ledge (and kill it with a ranger).

But the turtle hits for full damage now, right?

I only played one JQ on Kurzick side post-update. Before, where it seemed the carriers only got stuck if you IMS'd them while handing in a slab, they just stick for any old reason now. I had 2 stick in that one game. I was hoping this update would fix that, not make it worse.

lol at shadow walk nerf... makes using pro trench tank bar a little bit tighter

Hence why they should be split from PvP like ritualist spirits.

Hmm, the turtle hitting my ritualist for about 40 damage through the wall wouldn't be such a problem if it didn't remove Boon of Creation .

You might think it's lazy but the only other option would be to make the turtles the same as they used to be - a much shorter aggro range so they only attack things they can actually hit (thereby ignoring any Kurzick on a ledge). This way there is still the chance for Kurzicks to stall the turtle if they heal themselves a little bit. It's still favouring the Kurzicks. I doubt the damage the turtle will be doing without collision will be enough to stop even a class with a weak self heal from stalling it, but we will see.

I almost cried when I read they fixed some stuff in FA, although I'm curious to see whether or not it all really works (I've already seen reports of the turtle stall bug being as bad as ever).

On the point of the Jade Quarry rangers - the ones on the shrine near the yellow mine wouldn't attack the Kurzick Juggernaut when it ran past. If they did attack it, the Juggernaut would die without healing thus making it a pretty big advantage. It was the only shrine that had a big bug like that. To put it into perspective, there are many matches where the Luxons take the yellow mine but don't take the Kurzick ranger shrine next to it, and the Turtle will be killed by the rangers.

Ignore him, he's wrong, no need to explain in detail why he's wrong.

After playing a few matches in FA on the Kurzick side using a ledge ranger it's still insanely easy to get wins, but the removal of turtle collision does effect a couple of things. The ledge ranger who snipes the orange mine can be killed more easily by Luxon players (they are able to hit him in most of those locations and the additional 100-200 damage the turtle does helps to turn the tide of that battle - this feels balanced now). The ranger on the center ledge (or rit or whatever other class you choose) can be hit by the turtle for 100-200 damage by seige attacks now, but because he is still unable to be hit by Luxon players, this is completely pointless. Troll Unguent alone is enough to fully heal any damage (and tbh more) that the turtle is able to inflict. For as long as the turtle is able to be aggroed by a Kurzick in a location the Luxon players are unable to hit it, this encounter will be seriously unbalanced. This is a simple balance fact of all parts of the game (being able to hit them when they can't hit you should never happen unless they are melee).

Basically the update moved in the right direction and active Luxon teams who take on Kurzicks trying to stall have some added pressure (in the form of turtle damage) but the arena still needs a lot of work, especially when the turtles are still aggroing on opponents the players can't hit.

Anyone figure out what this means:
I've not noticed any changes in turtle AI. They still aggro on stupid things and don't seem to move forward any differently from before. Do they attack more often?