a change to underworld

why is this the only place some of us that are not in the "elite sin groups"that can never seam to finish this area off.

fow is easily done specally with the hero up date.

Doa fun and dosnt matter what class you are you can get this done

Deep another easy to do fun place with mates

Urgoz can be tricky but doabel

UW totaally anyoning, 10 quests most are easy but hell takes 3 hrs and probebly find you get wiped by horsemen, or u the frost king.

unless you have done it a billon times and have the stones to provit it you cant even get a look into a speed clear group. and Pugs in uw omg what a load of crap that usually turns out to be.

So why cant uw be changed like doa where us "less then gods" meer mortals can finish it. even if you can get it so that 4 or 5 quest can be saved so that you dont have to continue to redoo the same stuff over again and then get wiped out and start all over.

now let the sarcasm begin. cheers

The UW has been done with 7 heroes with no cons in HM with several builds now. It isn't that tough anymore when you look at the skills available compared to back in the day of prophecies only skills.

The final word is "Elite" zone I think you are not understanding this word in regards to the zone. The SC groups aren't really an issue as they are just trying to find a pub friendly way to complete it.

My issue with UW is time. DoA I can complete the quests one stage at a time..as my schedule permits.

Having to complete all 10 quests in UW at one go is the problem, to me.

I have my statue.. and do not intend to ever go back. Games should be fun, not a dreaded chore.

I just lol`d at this post .
It just shows how you cant please everyone - UW ppl said was easy a few years ago , a few changes to make it a challenge and players are fine but after almost 2 yrs ( has it almost been that long ) since dhuum returned and a few more changes and we get players crying it too hard.
UW is an elite area - its meant to be hard and meant to take time.
Who wants to do an elite area if its sooo easy and can be done in 30 mins with h/h ( ignoring sc`ers ) - wheres the challenge .
Things should take time as its what keeps you in the game and if your so worried about it taking too long - join a sc team and thats all ( i dont believe ive actually said to someone to join a sc team ).
Btw - saying of doa , its within realm of torment and a total diff structure to UW - Uw is core .. and last time i checked doa was nf only - all 3 campaigns share 1 core elite zone and each has its own elite area ( topk,deep,urgoz,doa ).
Last bit now - try seeing if your guild wants to try and do uw , see if your guild wants to learn it etc.

what's fun for others doesn't have to also be fun for you, so give us a break. Maybe testing their capacities in that area is fun for them.




On topic, there are several team builds which require a strong main team only and 1 or 2 tanks to pop the other areas reapers. I've been there and I've done it with both terraway and those teambuilds for it. Just prepared to be inovative, look outside of the box and come up with tactics for the more complex quests.



Profit

Are these build available anywhere? I haven't come close to clearing it with heroes.

I don't care how hard it is, how big a challenge it is, or even if they make it harder. My point was, solely, the time element of doing 10 quests at one sitting.. period. Nothing to do with your epeen. Both Slavers and DoA are capable of being done in stages. "core" does not have to mean "outdated mechanics"

Actually, they all share 2: UW and FoW...

The builds are available in the Heroes & AI section of these forums, but the Underworld is more about knowing what to do and when than it is about builds. These threads may prove to be useful to one seeking to clear UW with heroes

the Underworld Guide for 7H players
Underworld & Dhuum discussion
Underworld general discussion with heroes

And I agree. Playing in the Underworld for 3 hours straight just to get kicked out by Dhuum isn't exactly fun or productive. I would prefer a structure similar to Domain of Anguish. Where the Voice of Grenth would offer you a guest that requires you to do the bidding of each reaper inside the zone, and once the meta quest is completed the Reaper will deem you worthy of facing Dhuum himself. I guess this is just wishful thinking but the UW in it's current state is a dreadful experience for the majority of non-SC players.

I hate tanks, the idea is boring.

Me and my partner have completed UW in nm and HM, but would like to complete it in HM without using a tank on one side of 4H quest, as then you're stuck with a shitty bar for 2 hours.

The rest of UW is fine (including Dhuum, he's just a big teddy bear) for our kind of team, but we both don't want to play gw with a bar of boring tank skills.

We try 4-4, 6-2 split and so far only had success once on that quest when we managed to pull both bosses on one side right out of their mobs and down to the reaper on their own, and kill them before the other side arrived.

We tried attacking on their spawn points, every combo of heroes we can think of or find.

If the mobs attacked from one side, or in stages we'd be fine, but only when we force one side to rush to reaper and delay the other do we seem to get anywhere, and the problem with that tactic is it's pretty random if it works.

I cannot be bothered wasting time getting to 4H, even if done first, and failing due to random events, and I did speed clear until bored of that years ago, none of the other end game areas require a tank for non speed clear teams, so I don't know why the 4H quest has been made like that.

Until someone points out a reliable method to complete that quest in HM without a tank or cons, and with heroes, then I'll leave UW alone. All the good stuff drops from the end chest anyway so the crappy proph-like loot from a failed run doesn't make up for the wasted time.

Shamelessly advertising here but you may want to view this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asfw5Tm5780

Jeydra, a user here on Guru also came up with his own strategy for 4HM as an elementalist that doesn't involve Muddy Terrain. He explained it in the UW & Dhuum discussion thread posted in the Heroes & AI.

The only thing i can agree in the Op's idea is that yes , there's a too big diference in time between sc teams and usual pug/hero teams....

I did finally achieve UW with heroes in HM ,and now i usually can finish it easily ( although long) but the problems i noticed are that :
- it's way too easy to fail on dhuum with heroes
- for beginning teams , forgeting to kill one mob leading to a reaper dying 30mn later is a bit annoying ( that's minor problem though...)
- Too long time needed to get to the most tricky parts ( a.k.a 4h and dhuum)

However i don't agree at all with the argument " every elite area except UW is easy , so let's make UW easy too " .... It's not especially bad to have an area a bit more difficult....

No shame in advertising something good

I'm at work on a laptop, so it's a bit blurry, can you just confirm what I think I saw please:

You flag heroes round to one of the choke points, and put down crippling traps and bloodsong, (do you use all your spirits there? I cannot tell) then flag heroes back to yourself at reaper. You then put muddy terrain down take quest and complete one side with full team, rushing back as soon as 2nd boss is dead to stop the other side from killing reaper (good timing there, do you always have it cut so close?)

Thanks for your input, I'll try and find Jedyas post now.

it was early and having to think of urgoz threw me lol.
With anything gw zone/mission/quest its always gd to check out wiki and here on guru for any tips and guides - even the outdated uw guide ive used in the past but not as it was originally intended - old guide was for 55/ss but it gave details on what to expect and where and how to do it and when the changes came about only 2 or 3 things changed.
Practising with friends and having some details makes it more fun and you learn more - a person who never did a sc before could know more of uw than a person who only does uwsc on 1 chr and never did anything else.
I prefer trying stuff with guildies as you tend to know each others gamestyle and you know their capabilities - in a pug/sc team you dont have that bonus - knowing someones watching your back sort of thing and you can learn at your pace and not worry about needing 1 million stones just to get in a team

It is that close most of the time. Once I catched up on them in the curve though. As for spirits I only use those that last long (Bloodsong, Pain, Preservation). The others will expire before they get engaged.

Generally I am against your suggestion. Format UW is now interesting and challenging enough for me. Even most experienced SC groups note some fails from time to time. But this is not a point ... every area offering nice rewards tend to be the subject of intensive SC evoultion. Let's put aside SC.

As a casual player you have 2 solutions: do it with pll or with hero (obviously there can be a lot of combinations from 2ppl and 6 hero to 7 pll and 1 hero). I do not recomend you doing this with heros alone. Firstly your success will be highly dependent on luck (spawn of mobs, moment of approach,skills used by heros in right time, etc etc) and secondly even if you are lucky enough to rich dhuum ... probably you fail there. Secondly if you are so lucky to finish it succefully it will take you ages.

Of course it will require from you very good knowledge of UW and tactics to be used with quests.

What I am aiming at is to suggest you considering a so called balanced way (with other pll) to do UW. Of course if you are not a member of reasonable guild or do not have enough ''game active'' friends this can be difficult but let's give it a try.

I with my guildies do from time to time a balanced way. We are doing it in HM with cons and standard time we face is 1h20 min -1h30min. In Nm it takes around 1h if you would like to consider this option too. We are using 4 mele (including one SF tank), SoS, Def or order optionally, UA and EMO. Unfortunatelly this requires some skills. Tank plus EMO are must. The rest can be modified but I give example of what I have tested sucessfully tens of times.

my intention is simply to give you additional options to be taken into consideration as I have said I am against any changes to UW now.

my 2 cents

The only problem I had to make it was time. You practically have to change your schedule to make it.

I wish there was 'checkpoints', quests that stay completed, until you get to the final one, and then be able to have a go to the final one.
But also closing their areas, and respawning only skeletons of dhuum in place of the usual enemies in areas that must stay open to reach other quests, but are related to completed quests, to greatly limit abuse of this for farming.

in all honesty uw doesnt take 3 hours my guild does it in under a conset or at a max of 45 mins its just knowing how to do uw with the changes. all you do at 4h have some1 with a monk who can dodge met shower and its easy then the other 6 do 1 side and come once the 1 side is dead.

Err, using your guild I assume means using other human players, this was about doing it with heroes, no cons etc.

Speedclears are old news.

if it takes 3 hours with heros your just slow i 2 manned all of uw in under 2 hours