Guild Wars Guru

Are you ever going to kill Spirit Spam ?

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A
Aldric
Wilds Pathfinder
• #81
I do run SoS occasionally on my Ranger when I h/h and I don't think its particularly overpowered but i would say it could do with a few changes

1) Reduce the DPS
A slight nerf to tone down the damage a little, possibly along the lines of Laniers suggestions of 2 beefier spirits doing almost as much damage as the current 3. Couple that with a change to Spirit Siphons energy gain/recharge time would help since at the moment its a virtual energy machine with no real need for thought.

2) Change it to be much less useful for /Rt secondaries.
I really enjoy running builds round my secondary prof in general but with SOS its getting retard silly how many PuGs i join only to find a warrior/sins/dervs et all arguing about who gets to play the SoS. Jesus get a frigging rit in to the party and the rest of you hit shit with big lumps of metal.
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
Desert Nomad
• #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
I do run SoS occasionally on my Ranger when I h/h and I don't think its particularly overpowered but i would say it could do with a few changes

1) Reduce the DPS
A slight nerf to tone down the damage a little, possibly along the lines of Laniers suggestions of 2 beefier spirits doing almost as much damage as the current 3. Couple that with a change to Spirit Siphons energy gain/recharge time would help since at the moment its a virtual energy machine with no real need for thought.
agree with dmg, but spirit siphon being nerfed cuz of SoS or the spirit spam build, no thx
there are more builds which may be useful for spirit siphon

Quote:
2) Change it to be much less useful for /Rt secondaries.
I really enjoy running builds round my secondary prof in general but with SOS its getting retard silly how many PuGs i join only to find a warrior/sins/dervs et all arguing about who gets to play the SoS. Jesus get a frigging rit in to the party and the rest of you hit shit with big lumps of metal.
being much less useful for 2ndary rit, yes, this can replace the spirit siphon nerf

what about spirit siphon being spawning power skill?
just reduce energy gain at spawning power 0-3, so that you at least need 4 for a pretty nice result

SoS stays at channeling, nerf dmg alot and make spawning power increase spirit dmg, or nerf the SoS dmg some, give it normal non-armor ignore dmg and let spawning power give spirits more armor penetration and/or dmg

i think the 2nd part is too much of work, so spawning power giving more dmg to spirits would do the trick

like spawning power doubles spirit dmg, make the rit spirits (except for vampirism and bloodsong and other spirits not dealing dmg like agony and such) weak compared to now, so that with 12 spawning power, the spirits would be as strong as they would be now, like SoS would be at 12 channeling, but now with channeling at 12 and spawning power around 12

and 12 channeling and no spawning power would like give half the dmg, or less compared to both attributes on 12

this would make secondary spirit spammers being weak, adn primary spirit spammers would stay happy with their rit

its a nerf for non-primaries, but rits stay normal
i play rit best of all profs, and not even spirit spammer, as i use "you move like a dwarf!", summon ruby djinn and ebon vanguard assassin support, and of course SoS, which is my only spirit skill, unless someone wants to be spirit spammer, or uses spiritway heroes, then i change into consume soul (nice to kill other spirits, and minions )

then if SoS is too strong even with that idea, let dmg be reduced by 1...4...6
just dont screw it up.... thats all i ask for

let the primary rits stay, as they deserve spirits more than anyone else, even rangers, who have useless spirits (if not doing anything special) IMO

ps. read it well, its NOT a nerf for rits, but a change to avoid any other prof being a rit, like spirit spammer

also, i hope i made myself clear, as my english isnt that good
this is all what i have in mind atm

another thing: i think this is why GW2 has no secondaries, just cuz you cant overpower others with anything, and everything will be equal there

hope you like it
Daesu
Daesu
Furnace Stoker
• #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaquin View Post
I was thinking five. SoS, Bloodsong, Pain. I left Vampirism out since that's a PvE skill, but AoU is another 5e and you'll never have to worry about them dying on you before you can refresh.
And why should vampirism be left out simply because it is a PvE skill?

Quote:
I'm not sure where you are coming from. None of what you said was in context to what I've said.

The topic is very clear, we're not discussing PvE skills and consumables. Rits have not been singled out for any other reason than the spirit buff being part of the meta that replaced strategy and critical thinking. It's dumbed the game down, I don't know how to make it more concise than that. If we can't agree on anything let us move on.
If you nerf rits, then some other class, like necros for example would take over to make PvE easy. You are not solving anything and only making matters worse. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Sure, spirit spamming is powerful, but spirit spamming:
1. Can be done by any other caster classes besides rits.
2. Is pretty much what rits do, nerfing spirit spamming would bring them back to the old days where most people wouldnt want to play a rit in the first place.
3. PUGs typically have only 1 SoS spirit spamming rit in a party. If they integrate another spirit spamming rit, they would have to make sure they have no common spirits. Also I have seen R/Rt get into the group as spirit spammers when no rits are around.

Since most PUGs only have 1 spirit spammer, the problem is not as bad as what many of you are trying to make it out to be.

If your complaint is that spirit spamming dumbs down the game, then why are cons still around? This is why this thread has no merit. You try to remove the dirt from your little toe while the entire body is soaked with mud. I PROMISE you that the game would still be as dumbed down even with a rit nerf so your suggestion solves NOTHING.
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
If you nerf rits, then some other class, like necros for example would take over to make PvE easy. You are not solving anything and only making matters worse. You are barking up the wrong tree.
I can't speak for the others, but I don't want rits to be nerfed per say. I want other options to be equally viable as spirit spamming. For example, there are a ton of strait up channeling damage spells that could get some use now with the armor penetration from DwG or CwD. However, outside of gimmicks that utilize DwG en masse, when do you ever see a DwG or a Clamor of Souls or a Caretaker's charge used for a dps rit build? Spirit spam simply outdamages these other options by such a wide margin. What I want is to close this margin somewhat, and since SoS and spirit siphon and to a lesser extent, summon spirits, are the quintessential/most powerful spells in a spirit spam bar, giving slight nerfs (not functionality changes or large nerfs, just slight nerfs), would go some of the way toward evening out the power of the different dps options available to rits. Im not just talking about making strait damage builds more viable either. Nerfing SoS would make SoGM and ritlord more desireable in addition to support builds like the old OoS/splinters/a-rage/smite spell builds. I mean how often do you see OoS being used anymore? Its pretty sad when a non-elite energy management spell is so good that it can give more energy than an already good elite energy management spell.
Essence Snow
Essence Snow
Unbridled Enthusiasm!
• #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
I can't speak for the others, but I don't want rits to be nerfed per say. I want other options to be equally viable as spirit spamming. For example, there are a ton of strait up channeling damage spells that could get some use now with the armor penetration from DwG or CwD. However, outside of gimmicks that utilize DwG en masse, when do you ever see a DwG or a Clamor of Souls or a Caretaker's charge used for a dps rit build? Spirit spam simply outdamages these other options by such a wide margin. What I want is to close this margin somewhat, and since SoS and spirit siphon and to a lesser extent, summon spirits, are the quintessential/most powerful spells in a spirit spam bar, giving slight nerfs (not functionality changes or large nerfs, just slight nerfs), would go some of the way toward evening out the power of the different dps options available to rits. Im not just talking about making strait damage builds more viable either. Nerfing SoS would make SoGM and ritlord more desireable in addition to support builds like the old OoS/splinters/a-rage/smite spell builds. I mean how often do you see OoS being used anymore? Its pretty sad when a non-elite energy management spell is so good that it can give more energy than an already good elite energy management spell.
The common misconception that SoS must be a channeling/communing hybrid pains me so. Taking two Rits if not three is always better imo....one a SoS that spec 12 channeling 12 spawning...with splinter weap/ancestors and then another character with the communing spirits. Even a third running ST defensive spirits aids immensely.

Every profession in the game has a long list of useless elites. SoGM is not one of them. The ritualist remains one of the most versitile classes in the game. I'm sorry to say, but I am not seeing the point of arguing Spirit Siphon. What OP thing is it fueling that it needs changing? Your typical SoS build doesn't need the energy, nor does DwG.
c
chuckles79
Wilds Pathfinder
• #86
SoS is just fine, it's usable by humans and heros alike and makes spirits a usable part of the game again.
Unlike ursan and SF, SoS does not allow a bunch of complete noobs to go hogwild in the UW or DoA without thought or effort.
Because of the way the later professions were implemented, the GW staff obviously realized that with a smaller pool of skills, elite armor choices, and green weaspons; that no one would want to play non-core professions unless they found ways to make them fun to play.
Paragons b4 imbas, sins b4 SF, rits b4 SoS and DwG; all of them stunk to high heaven. Paragons were nerfed into also rans, rits weren't really good at anything specifically, and sins were plain not welcome in PvE (shadowstep in, die, yell at monk, rez, repeat)
Now the GW crew are about to unleash Dervish God Mode upon us. I should really beat NF with mine LOL.
sindex
sindex
Wilds Pathfinder
• #87
If I remember there was one big nerf to Rit’s before they got buffed again. It was the whole let’s stick exhaustion next to certain Ritualist skills. It only lasted a week I think, and even Mr. Cartwright apologized for going to that extreme. Honestly I would rather not go back to that insanity.
V
Vlad
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #88
Oh please he actualy thinks SF got nerfed? not even close. A real SF nerf would destroy sins completely tho.
Xiaquin
Xiaquin
Wilds Pathfinder
• #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
And why should vampirism be left out simply because it is a PvE skill?
I feel that's a separate issue and tried to avoid dragging them into the argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
If you nerf rits, then some other class, like necros for example would take over to make PvE easy. You are not solving anything and only making matters worse. You are barking up the wrong tree.
"Nerf" is too strong a word, meaning to render useless. I did not say I wanted to make spirit spamming unusable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Since most PUGs only have 1 spirit spammer, the problem is not as bad as what many of you are trying to make it out to be.
That's a poor metric for balance. I compared spirits to minions in every way; it was ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
If your complaint is that spirit spamming dumbs down the game, then why are cons still around? This is why this thread has no merit. You try to remove the dirt from your little toe while the entire body is soaked with mud. I PROMISE you that the game would still be as dumbed down even with a rit nerf so your suggestion solves NOTHING.
I don't think you understand, and I am not continuing this.
Daesu
Daesu
Furnace Stoker
• #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaquin View Post
I feel that's a separate issue and tried to avoid dragging them into the argument.
If the issue is PvE is dumbed down, then nothing dumbs it down more than cons and PvE skills so why should they be a seperate argument.

Quote:
That's a poor metric for balance. I compared spirits to minions in every way; it was ignored.
You are comparing apples and oranges. When comparing the energy cost of a fiend versus spirits, you failed to account for the overpowered soul reaping attribute that necros get to enjoy but rits dont.

Also note that spirit spamming can be used effectively by most other classes besides rits, while a fiend MM can only be used effectively by a necro due to its energy cost. In terms of balance, necro skills are more unbalanced favoring a particular class than rit skills are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
I can't speak for the others, but I don't want rits to be nerfed per say. I want other options to be equally viable as spirit spamming. For example, there are a ton of strait up channeling damage spells that could get some use now with the armor penetration from DwG or CwD. However, outside of gimmicks that utilize DwG en masse, when do you ever see a DwG or a Clamor of Souls or a Caretaker's charge used for a dps rit build? Spirit spam simply outdamages these other options by such a wide margin. What I want is to close this margin somewhat, and since SoS and spirit siphon and to a lesser extent, summon spirits, are the quintessential/most powerful spells in a spirit spam bar, giving slight nerfs (not functionality changes or large nerfs, just slight nerfs), would go some of the way toward evening out the power of the different dps options available to rits. Im not just talking about making strait damage builds more viable either. Nerfing SoS would make SoGM and ritlord more desireable in addition to support builds like the old OoS/splinters/a-rage/smite spell builds. I mean how often do you see OoS being used anymore? Its pretty sad when a non-elite energy management spell is so good that it can give more energy than an already good elite energy management spell.
I dont think what you want to discuss belongs in this thread or even this forum. It belongs to the rit forum and this thread is talking about nerfing spirit spamming, not how to improve rits.
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
The common misconception that SoS must be a channeling/communing hybrid pains me so. Taking two Rits if not three is always better imo....one a SoS that spec 12 channeling 12 spawning...with splinter weap/ancestors and then another character with the communing spirits. Even a third running ST defensive spirits aids immensely.
Uh, I think you are kinda proving my point. SoS is such a versatile elite that it can go well in almost any type of build. Personally, I like focused builds so my SoS build is a spirit spammer, but I completely agree that A pure channeling or a Channeling/resto build with SoS and some support skills is also very good. It is sad when a skill is so good that it is better to use it in most situations for support over pure support skills like weapon of remedy/quickening/fury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Every profession in the game has a long list of useless elites. SoGM is not one of them. The ritualist remains one of the most versitile classes in the game. I'm sorry to say, but I am not seeing the point of arguing Spirit Siphon. What OP thing is it fueling that it needs changing? Your typical SoS build doesn't need the energy, nor does DwG.
Just b/c every profession has useless elites doesn't mean we shouldnt make more elites useful... I dont understand where you are coming from with this arguement. Anyway, the reason why I think spirit siphon should have a slight nerf (and by a slight nerf i mean +5 seconds recharge time) is because its energy management potential is too high. It is way too easy to have indefinite energy with spirit siphon in your build, and it should never be easy to have indefinite energy.

Quote:
I dont think what you want to discuss belongs in this thread or even this forum. It belongs to the rit forum and this thread is talking about nerfing spirit spamming, not how to improve rits.
huh? I said nothing about improving rits. I just said that one reason SoS should get nerfed is so that it doesn't completely outclass every single other playstyle available to rits.

I want to ask all with this question. In a general PvE setting, when another rit is not already running a spirit spam build, would you all choose any other elite over SoS for the optimal rit build? Does any other elite come close to the power of SoS? I mean what rit elite is typically considered the 2nd most "powerful"? Im pretty sure DwG occupies this position. The fact of the matter is that Spirit Spamming is just so much "better" than any other option available to rits. Once again, Im not saying Spirit Spamming should be killed. What I am saying is that it shouldn't completely outclass every other play style available to rits.

Honestly, at this point in time, I would prefer rits as they used to be. Back then (and im talking about back in the day when OoS support builds were usually recommended as the "best" options available), rits were probably one of the weakest professions in PvE. This is true. However, back then, there were many different playstyles I could choose from with relatively the same amount of "power" available to each playstyle. I could be a spirit spammer, a support rit, a healer, a strait damage channeler, a rit minion bomber, or a spirit strength rit, and although none of the options were very powerful in PvE, all the playstyles were relatively equal in terms of "power". That is certainly not the case nowadays. Spirit spam is just flat out more powerful than all the other options available to rits, and the margin is a pretty wide one.
Ka Tet
Ka Tet
Krytan Explorer
• #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
However, back then, there were many different playstyles I could choose from with relatively the same amount of "power" available to each playstyle. I could be a spirit spammer, a support rit, a healer, a strait damage channeler, a rit minion bomber, or a spirit strength rit, and although none of the options were very powerful in PvE,
No one is stopping you.
Essence Snow
Essence Snow
Unbridled Enthusiasm!
• #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post

Just b/c every profession has useless elites doesn't mean we shouldnt make more elites useful... I dont understand where you are coming from with this arguement.
Huh?....that was not my arguement. That double negative throws me off what you are trying to say. Please clarify.

Quote:
Anyway, the reason why I think spirit siphon should have a slight nerf (and by a slight nerf i mean +5 seconds recharge time) is because its energy management potential is too high. It is way too easy to have indefinite energy with spirit siphon in your build, and it should never be easy to have indefinite energy.
The potential might be there, but there is basically nothing that a rit uses that needs mass energy...so it only becomes wasted potential.

Quote:
I want to ask all with this question. In a general PvE setting, when another rit is not already running a spirit spam build, would you all choose any other elite over SoS for the optimal rit build? Does any other elite come close to the power of SoS? I mean what rit elite is typically considered the 2nd most "powerful"?
Like noted b4... a SoGM communing rit, ST defensive spirit rit, explosive growth MM rit, or a Resto rit. DwG rits don't mesh well with random teams.

Quote:
Spirit spam is just flat out more powerful than all the other options available to rits, and the margin is a pretty wide one.
Spawning Spirits is what Rits do...it says it in their character bio. Take a look here. Nerfing spirit spamming....is nerfing rits.
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Huh?....that was not my arguement. That double negative throws me off what you are trying to say. Please clarify.
Sorry. Basically, I was saying that the fact that there are already several useless elites is irrelevant to this conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
The potential might be there, but there is basically nothing that a rit uses that needs mass energy...so it only becomes wasted potential.
Well technically there are. There is a 25 energy spirit and several 15 energy ones as well. There are also several highly spammable channeling spells that due to their high spammability, need a form of energy management. Spirit Siphon pretty much takes away any worries of energy management that a spirit spammer could possibly have by giving it a rediculous energy gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Like noted b4... a SoGM communing rit, ST defensive spirit rit, explosive growth MM rit, or a Resto rit. DwG rits don't mesh well with random teams.
And I like all of these options as well. However, the only ones that can really be compared to SoS spirit spammers are the offensive ones, and SoS spirit spammers can pump out a ton more damage than SoGM communing rits, explosive growth MMs, DwGs, Caretakers Charge/Clamour of Soul rits. SoS spirit spammers have a far higher dps than any of the other dps options rits have, and all I am asking is for the dps of SoS rits to be closer to that of the other offensive options that rits have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Spawning Spirits is what Rits do...it says it in their character bio. Take a look here. Nerfing spirit spamming....is nerfing rits.
Yes, I am very well aware of what rits do. Rits also have a lot of other "things" they can do besides spirit spamming. Is it asking too much to bring the dps of SoS spirit spam more in line with the other options rits have? Making more builds/playstyles equally viable = more variation in builds people play and more of a chance for people to have fun without feeling like they are gimping their team.

Quote:
No one is stopping you.
Uh... alrighty then. You are correct - no one is stopping me. What does this have anything to do with what I was trying to argue?
Ka Tet
Ka Tet
Krytan Explorer
• #95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
Uh... alrighty then. You are correct - no one is stopping me. What does this have anything to do with what I was trying to argue?
I quoted that part, look above what I typed.
Beyond that, I don't think you know what you're arguing and that makes it very difficult for me to know what you're arguing.
Are you upset because most pugs won't let you play rit unless you're a spammer? Most pugs won't let you come as a ranger unless you're a splinter/barrage. If it's the one-dimensionality of most pugs that you dislike, then that has nothing to do with SoS.
Are you upset about the non-elite e-management? Necros have SR, Rangers have expertise, Sins have crit strikes, Dervs have mysticism and Paragons have leadership; none of those even require a skill for e-management. Eles have E-storage for increased energy and attunements and GolE for non-elite energy management.
Are you upset about DPS? If so, I'm not sure why. Take a DwG to Great Temple and compare DPS. SoGM doesn't exactly provide poor DPS.
Are you upset that many people don't use rits for things other than SoS? Most people like things that they are familiar with and that they know works, but that doesn't mean the other options aren't strong. When jumping in with pugs, people will tend to run a build that they won't have to spend 10 minutes explaining/defending.
If there's an argument I missed, please let me know.
Essence Snow
Essence Snow
Unbridled Enthusiasm!
• #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
Well technically there are. There is a 25 energy spirit and several 15 energy ones as well. There are also several highly spammable channeling spells that due to their high spammability, need a form of energy management. Spirit Siphon pretty much takes away any worries of energy management that a spirit spammer could possibly have by giving it a rediculous energy gain.
Those spirits aren't really a part of a SoS build. They are however part of SoGM and ST defensive builds...neither of which need/use spirit siphon. For the most part (BLA excluded ofc) a SoS has plenty of energy to cast it's spammable channeling spells during a fight. There is no need to be able spam a spell 10 times during a fight if the mob dies after 3 casts. (ofc this includes other party members efforts) So in turn the "rediculous" energy gain from spirit siphon is not really doing much.

Quote:
And I like all of these options as well. However, the only ones that can really be compared to SoS spirit spammers are the offensive ones, and SoS spirit spammers can pump out a ton more damage than SoGM communing rits, explosive growth MMs, DwGs, Caretakers Charge/Clamour of Soul rits. SoS spirit spammers have a far higher dps than any of the other dps options rits have, and all I am asking is for the dps of SoS rits to be closer to that of the other offensive options that rits have.
You had asked if there was already a Rit in a group running SoS, what would we run. So comparing the options is flawed as a SoGM rit will also gain the synergy from painful bond, making it's dps quite impressive. Aside from dps, ST defensive rits are very very useful. Any monk that has enjoyed having one of these in their group can attest to it.



Quote:
Yes, I am very well aware of what rits do. Rits also have a lot of other "things" they can do besides spirit spamming. Is it asking too much to bring the dps of SoS spirit spam more in line with the other options rits have? Making more builds/playstyles equally viable = more variation in builds people play and more of a chance for people to have fun without feeling like they are gimping their team.
Might I suggest thinking outside of the dps box? I am also a bit confused as to what you want. I think Tha Walkin Dude makes light of some of my queries as well.
NerfHerder
NerfHerder
Wilds Pathfinder
• #97
There are some advantages of SoS/Spirit Spam:

Allows terrible players to provide a vital role in a team

Allows good players to be lazy

Easy nick items

When forming a pug/guild group, someone else will want to go SoS, so you know you should bring another build

Any/Rt = Bison Tourny win
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
Desert Nomad
• #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
Uh, I think you are kinda proving my point. SoS is such a versatile elite that it can go well in almost any type of build. Personally, I like focused builds so my SoS build is a spirit spammer, but I completely agree that A pure channeling or a Channeling/resto build with SoS and some support skills is also very good. It is sad when a skill is so good that it is better to use it in most situations for support over pure support skills like weapon of remedy/quickening/fury.



Just b/c every profession has useless elites doesn't mean we shouldnt make more elites useful... I dont understand where you are coming from with this arguement. Anyway, the reason why I think spirit siphon should have a slight nerf (and by a slight nerf i mean +5 seconds recharge time) is because its energy management potential is too high. It is way too easy to have indefinite energy with spirit siphon in your build, and it should never be easy to have indefinite energy.



huh? I said nothing about improving rits. I just said that one reason SoS should get nerfed is so that it doesn't completely outclass every single other playstyle available to rits.

I want to ask all with this question. In a general PvE setting, when another rit is not already running a spirit spam build, would you all choose any other elite over SoS for the optimal rit build? Does any other elite come close to the power of SoS? I mean what rit elite is typically considered the 2nd most "powerful"? Im pretty sure DwG occupies this position. The fact of the matter is that Spirit Spamming is just so much "better" than any other option available to rits. Once again, Im not saying Spirit Spamming should be killed. What I am saying is that it shouldn't completely outclass every other play style available to rits.

Honestly, at this point in time, I would prefer rits as they used to be. Back then (and im talking about back in the day when OoS support builds were usually recommended as the "best" options available), rits were probably one of the weakest professions in PvE. This is true. However, back then, there were many different playstyles I could choose from with relatively the same amount of "power" available to each playstyle. I could be a spirit spammer, a support rit, a healer, a strait damage channeler, a rit minion bomber, or a spirit strength rit, and although none of the options were very powerful in PvE, all the playstyles were relatively equal in terms of "power". That is certainly not the case nowadays. Spirit spam is just flat out more powerful than all the other options available to rits, and the margin is a pretty wide one.
i have something for you, some important info:

everytime they nerf and make a build less useful, people come up with another build
which could make it worse, if its not spirits, it may be something better which 3 people can use, because it wont have limits like 1 spirit at a time

and imagine something as good as 3 spirit spammers without spirit limit, but then its no spirits, just a build which is as good

that'll be overpowered thx to the nerfs to spirit spam

many people got sick of the huge amount of nerfs we had some time ago
will they let people leave the game again, or will they let people enjoy the game this time?

in other words: will they nerf rit, or not?

i hope you get my point

face it, people like to use builds which are strong and on pvx
nerf this and they copy other good builds

it's an endless cycle (wow i get a deja vu)

most people dont wanna make builds, but copy effective ones, so they copy the ones which are the best, in other words:

they use builds which outclass others after every nerf

let them enjoy the limited spirit builds (as all spirits can be made once at a time)

nerf means: decrease effectiveness of a skill
NOT: destroy the effectiveness of a skill

so should they decrease the effectiveness of spirit spams, its called a nerf

*decrease effectiveness = make a skill less effective, NOT destroying the purpose of a skill*

even though i dont use spirit spam much myself, i hate to see spirits becoming less useful, as offensive rit spirits are good as they are now, unlike the defensive rit spirits, which i like to use also
R
R_Frost
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran_player View Post
I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......

Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......

Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......

There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....

The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......

...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......

Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........?

Please ?
well as been said, shadow form is still around, it hasn't been killed, although the last attempt at a nerf killed other professions farm builds while leaving shadow form useable. Anet was too stupid to do the right thing with that fix. Yeah SoS gives the Rit's a playable build for party play but its not as OP as it could of been seeing only one copy of a spirit can be up at a time. as for the game being deader then ever, hell its been like this for over a year now, you sure you've only been gone for the summer? how full did you expect mission outpost to be for a game 5 1/2 years old now? if you think SoS is keeping you from playing in a group maybe you haven't been gone long enough.
Daesu
Daesu
Furnace Stoker
• #100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
Honestly, at this point in time, I would prefer rits as they used to be. Back then (and im talking about back in the day when OoS support builds were usually recommended as the "best" options available), rits were probably one of the weakest professions in PvE. This is true. However, back then, there were many different playstyles I could choose from with relatively the same amount of "power" available to each playstyle. I could be a spirit spammer, a support rit, a healer, a strait damage channeler, a rit minion bomber, or a spirit strength rit, and although none of the options were very powerful in PvE, all the playstyles were relatively equal in terms of "power". That is certainly not the case nowadays. Spirit spam is just flat out more powerful than all the other options available to rits, and the margin is a pretty wide one.
I disagree that all the playstyle were relatively equal in terms of power. In the absence of SoS and spirit buffs, an AP bar probably makes the most sense for dps. Also not all classes were balanced back then either. The mere fact that some classes were obviously more popular than others shows the inbalance between the classes.

Personally I have been playing my rit ever since Factions started and I have 2 mesmers that were made back in 2005 and they have all completed all the campaigns long before the rit or mesmer buffs. Even though I don't need the buffs, I could still tell that my mesmers and rit were weaker than my necro in terms of killing power, before their respective buffs.

The advantage I have of playing through all classes through all campaigns for many years, is that I can tell which classes are more OP than others. One thing is for sure, they were definitely not better balanced back then.