about profession versatility

Hiya,

I am a returning player from the beginning of the factions era, and would like to ask a few things - none about the game changes, but the overall feeling of two classes.

I used to have a Warrior, but upon playing him again I didn't feel very good at things like I used to feel. Somehow I feel closed into a niche of physical damage and I'm not very comfortable with that (even though I found a meteor-shower W/E in these forums, which was pretty nifty :P).

Right now, I am trying to decide between starting a Necro or an Elementalist. However, I've been reading and it seems Eles are being forced into specific builds, and the good old battery, SS and minion master necros are still alive and going. It also seems taht the scattering AI introduced at some point has now been restricted to hard mode.

So I'd ask for your expertise and ask: Could you tell me a little bit more about the current state of those classes ?

Another "question" (I read MANY posts and builds in the farming and class sections), is about class versatility while farming. It seems Eles are sporting a much wider variety (read - many secondary classes of choice) of farming builds than necros, and I'd like to be corrected if I'm making the wrong assumption.

I apologize if any of these questions are out of order, but I assure you I read the stickies and thought it would be alright to ask, I hope I didn't break any rules!

I assume your speaking about PvE.

The AI kite both in HM and NM but it triggers faster in HM. The main reason to why nuking isnt viable (in hardmode) is because its armor dependent damage and its often reduced to below 50% of listed damage. Eles do better with a support build (blind, snare/KD etc) or as many people below me will say; Ether renewal infuser/protter, which basically is a monk build on crack. Actually, its probably one of the most powerful templates avialable in balanced PvE.

Necros have plenty of viable build, and plenty of differnt playstyles.



And yes, eles have tons and tons of farming builds, and can solo farm plenty much more than necros can.

try Mark of Rodgort and then a fire sword. you can LIGHT them on FIRE. Now that's nifty

Try ELE to get your energy up and then use the Necro mm build

that is a good combo

In most PvE areas, necromancers need only invest enough points in Soul Reaping, and then they practically have an infinite amount of energy, and can fit almost any caster role. Elementalists have higher energy to begin with, but they become weaker the longer a fight takes.

ElnoreVarda, yes, I meant PvE indeed.

After revisiting all professions today, Rangers and Assassins spiked some interest. Particularly Assassins for their 4 pip regen, seem like I could do some really nasty caster stuff, like spirit spam for UW and a few other similar builds using shadow step and some knockdowns. Also saw all the controversy about Shadow Form, I hope it gets patched soon.

I managed to get into a couple of groups but people didn't seem to do anything other than waiting for the assassin with permanent Shadow Form to complete objectives or something, I didn't get it quite well.

Still trying to decide in a versatile class, but from what it looks like it'll be an Assassin or Dervish (I guess high physical damage + 4 pip regen looks like good stuff to me, despite Dervishes wearing skirts - jk!). If someone could share their experience with those classes it would be great!

Thank you for your help, any further input is greatly appreciated!

A lot depends upon your own personal play style. If you are one of those people who wants to get into the latest group du-jour using the builds du-jour to speed your way through the farm du-jour, then you need to be concerned about all the latest builds, etc.

If you are just someone who likes to play GW and do quests, missions, dungeons, etc.., then there's no real need to be overly concerned about such things. Very few parts of the game (NM or HM) actually require any sort of specialized build. The major difference is in the speed with which something is done and/or the number of people in the party. Pretty much anything can be done H&H, as well.

Well, what I want the most out of the game is to be able to have ONE character, focus solely on that character, and be able to do the most variety of things possible, including soloing a few places and farming stuff.

That is why I thought mostly about Ranger / Assassin / Dervish. All of them have medium armor (70 base for all of them IIRC?), seem versatile due to their 4 pips of regen (3 for ranger, but they have expertise) and are not confined to the caster or melee stereotype, due to said regen and armor.

I'm having great trouble deciding between those, though I feel the last two are more appropriate than the ranger, for some unknown reason, heh.

I thank you again for responding, and wonder if you could perhaps help me a little longer

Given what you just said, I'd suggest you consider a Monk also. Monks can, of course, be used as healers and/or protectors. PUGs are always looking for healers (even if a Hero is often better).
But, they can also be damage dealers using a smiting based build such as a typical RoJ (Ray of Judgment) build. RoJs are often used in team builds such as the VSF (Voltaic Spear Farm)
They can also be used for farming using 55 (solo) builds, or 600/smite (duo) builds (which can also be thought of as a "solo" build if you use a Hero for the smite monk.)

In fact, I'd go for Monk before Ranger, Assassin, or Dervish, if you want a versatile class.

If you are unhappy with your warrior, you won't like Dervish either. It's one of the most boring classes to play unless you like lots of physical damage. While Assassins are fun to play (when done correctly), they are very restricted in use. They are great for running and some farms, but not very useful in teams.

You need to decide if you want the most versatile profession to play or the most useful farmer. No one profession gives you the best of both. On the other hand, you can create two new characters, one for each type of use.

Ah indeed, this is one of the things I forgot to say - I seem to be unable to play a monk properly. I do have one, made in the beginning of the 55 farming times, but never really got into healing :/ I'd rather be a more offensive profession, but thank you for reminding me of how awesome monks can be.

I've looked into dervishes as well and their armor types don't really go along with my taste too, so those are out, as well as necros - they are extremely fun, but don't have a lot of defenses for solo farming most places unless they are in a 55 build (like the Elementalist and greatly improved armor from earth spells I mean - if I'm babbling please intervene). Just gonna try to make a decision between Elementalist and Assassin I guess.

And btw, thanks again

Well I don't know if you have made your choise yet.

My main char is an Assassin, certainly not because of perma I hate that. But because of the fun it gives me. Assassin can do loads of damage in a short time and have plenty of defense and heal spells aswell. They have 4 pips of energy regeneration which gives them the possibility for much more. What I like less about an Assassin is that they rely on a chain of attacks. I usually use Lead attack > Offhand attack > critical Strike > MB > DB. But if one of the first skills is interrupted for a long time, you cannot attack for a long time.
If you take a Warrior for example, they can still spam their other spells.
Also what I don't like is that I didn't like is that loads of people expected me to be a perma sin. Being a perma is nice for farming when I like, but not for doing PvE dungeons etc. (Well, that's my opinion) So somewhere I hope SF is going to be nerfed.

I also have an Elementalist, which I also like. I made one about 4 months ago (I have stopped playing for 1,5 year and started again, so I could discover everything again) and at first I didn't like it. I didn't like the casting times at first and the spells really didn't any sense of damage, but this was because I choose the wrong build. After asking some around I got some builds from players and that worked very well! I enjoyed it also.

So again, I don't know if you made your choise already, but just try them both out for a while. Bring them both to lvl 20 do some missions and rate it.

Of the two you mentioned, elementalists can fulfill more roles in the party than assassins, in otherwords, you will have a much easier time switching your ele to a damage dealer, healer, support etc. You can even put a sword and some earth enchants on an ele for fun and be a competent melee. The ele primary attribute E-Storage is also the most versitile because just about every class and role uses energy. I guess you can consider Eles a jack of all trades if built correctly because its the best class that can take advantage of other class's skills (necros are also good there, but they tend to fit only in specific builds).

Rangers are similarly flexible with 2ndary professions, but only among the physical classes. This usually gives you the choice between ranged attack and melee attack.

Dervishes are probably the only physical class that can easily step into caster roles. Derv healers and PBAoE bombers are win ^_^.

With an assassin, you are usually confined to the melee damage dealer (with exception of soon-to-be-nerfed shadowform) with daggers, or scythes because its primary attribute and skills offer nothing for casters.

Normally I'd say try everything and play to level 10 or something and see which was your favorite, but since your question is about versatility in the long run I would have to say the Elementalist over the assassin. I'm not saying you can't slap Searing Flames on an assassin and call it a nuker, but gl getting a group. Eles have given me the most to do with a single class while being accepted into parties.

Sounds to me like you're just looking for a profession that looks and sounds good on paper so your mind can be at ease.

I don't know why you want to do everything in the least effective way. MS on a warrior? Farming on a necro but resistant to 55? Want to participate in meta with a sin but without perma?
Your requirements are as silly as "Teach me to fight like Bruce Lee painlessly."

Game designers give you choices because NOT all of them work. They give you choices so that some people who make the right choices will be more effective and win more than the people to make bad choices. The punishment for people who make bad choices is that they're going to have a hard time getting places.

Many of the flavor builds are so because they're the ones that are the easiest to work with and produce the best results.
If you're only concerned about your own enjoyment [since I do have friends in GW who say they enjoy failing more than running meta], you should go play an offline game. When you play a multiplayer game, it's no longer just about you. The majority of people play for results, because killing a lvl 28 darkened irukandji is no more interesting than killing a lvl 5 moa. If you're not ready to accept a build that produces results, people aren't going to pick you up and you're going to damn the profession for being boring.

You want a class that's effective in the most possible ways. That means you need to accept effective builds. If you don't care about effectiveness, allow me to assure you that your warrior is just fine solo farming DoA with mending and frenzy. Go W/E and feel strong blowing up balls of level 3 Hulking Stone Elementals in Old Ascalon with inferno while laughing maniacally as they do piles of 0 damage to you. There's no shame in that. You're solo farming granite slabs and charcoal.

I'm not condemning bad builds, BUT: If you want to get places with bad builds, finding a good guild to carry you is FAR more important than profession. Only your guild will allow your assassin spirit spamming for them instead of picking up a ritualist that can do it faster, better.

Agree with espadon here, for example my guildie uses a koss with

1. dchop
2. cyclone
3. dolyak sig
4. heal sig
5. patient spirit
6. sig of rejuv
7. orison of healing
8. sig of devo

I think the bar speaks for itself

First of @ BlueXIV: WTFLMFAO? He should put Symbolic Strike in there.

@Your first post, out of those two choices.

I would choose the necro, as you said yourselfs, the necro still has BiP,MM,SS,Discord,Spoil Victor.All of which or great in a party setup, and some which you can farm with.

With ele you will mostly be stuck in fire magic, with Searing Flames, maybe Mind blast,or some of the earth magic skills like Obsidian Flesh.You could also go infuse/ether renewal, but with that you will have a hard time finding a group, because most people will take a monk over you anyways.For the most part as a ele you will be stuck with maybe 3 or 4 builds most of which will be doing the same thing, which is doing big damage before the enemies can kill you.

If the choice is between Sin and Ranger,Ranger gives you more choices, the ranger may have only 3 pips of energy but they have expertise,which might as well be 2 extra pips of energy playing any physical class.You mention Spirit Spaming (SoS) and how a assassin could play that with four pips, however a ranger can play SoS much better then a sin,after the Rit becauseit can summon higher level spirits
and can wear the runes,the ranger and necro are the best classes to play SoS.

As a sin you have SF (for as long as it lasts) which is great and I heard some people running moebious too, but besides that you dont have much choice,the sin does have a nice caster combo though so if you choose sin you should look that build up.

In case it isnt shown yet,i'm suggestion you choose ranger.The Assassin can solo with SF but after its nerfed which it will be sometime in the future, the assassin will not really be able to solo,The ranger i believe can solo some stuff with trapping and i doubt that will be touched in the farming nerfs coming up,The dervish im not so sure about but im pretty sure it can farm stuff with VoS,mystic regen etc.

When it comes down to armor I would say the it goes as this ranger>dervish>assassin, the ranger is the best because of the big extra elemental armor,the dervish is after because of blessed and windwalker insignia,then assassin its insignia is a little more hard to keep the effect up all the time.


Assassin can play the caster classes easier because of the 4 pips, ranger is stuck with a necro as a caster class (touch skills) the problem really is,that your better of just playing the class,You cant really play as a monk because your heals will be low,youcant really play mesmer that well because some of its skill take long to cast, which is why mesmers have FC and also because many its skills become better right AFTER 12 attributes.

You could play a elementalist but your damage will be low and you will have a hard time with energy,because you dont have access to the attuntments.

The ranger playing a toucher with necro touch skill, however can play as a toucher much better then a necro.

Thanks everyone, especially to Espadon for the eye opener. After playing a little this weekend I realized I had been playing way too much Diablo2 and it differs greatly from GW. Underpowered builds are novel and fun, but indeed they won't get me anywhere in the MMO world.
I realized indeed you have to make the best out of your character when entering a group, and not try to come up with some weird crappy build.

But I also expressed myself pretty poorly which I guess led to some misunderstanding. I wanted a class who had a variety of builds encompassing most of the professions. It doesn't mean I want my warrior to become a fire nuking weirdo, but maybe that he can use some of the elementalist attributes well. AND, mostly for farming. I guess that was the missing keyword.

I played the dervish and assassin for a little while, and found both classes to be really enjoyable. I visited ToA and noticed hardly any dervishes trying to solo the UW and FoW, but too many damn assassins.

I looked up some builds on pvxwiki, and it seems dervishes are not getting much attention - or they're a bad farming class. Most "reviews" say they are a crappy profession with a useless primary (and I kinda agree with the last part). Another problem, is that almost every farming build with assassins is completely dependent on permanent shadow form.

I am still trying to decide, mostly between Dervish and Assassin (I do like physical damage, but different from the warrior style), but am a bit apprehensive about choosing either one. At least now I know my "fun" derives from farming a few places (NOT for granite slabs! :P ) and soloing some content - even if just a little bit.

What is left to know, I guess, is how well assassins perform without perma, and if dervishes are actually bad for farming, or they've just not been given enough attention.

I guess that's somewhat a matter of opinion. I my opinion, GW (PvE) is supposed to be an RPG. While one of the aspects often associated with RPGs is farming, imho, the idea of solo farming was not one that was GW's intent. (farming is not defined as a solo event.) Nor is farming the main object of GW. So, to dump on a class because it's not good for solo farming is a bit wacky.

I suppose it depends upon what aspects of RPGs you enjoy and what goals you set for yourself. Personally, my enjoyment with GW has always been centered around questing/adventuring, not solo farming with the intent to gather lots of meaningless imaginary wealth (although I have done some ofc. ). In that sense, I enjoyed playing every class. Every class has it's unique aspects. Some aren't as good for solo farming - so what - there's lots of room (and slots) to have a few solo class/builds.

Well here's how it is: Warrior is a pure class, while Assassin and Dervish are both hybrid melee spellcasters. However, between them, the Dervish is noticeably a lot more cast-heavy than the Assassin [read: it plays more like an Elementalist with an hammer than a Warrior with a spell]. Many of the Assassin's most used skills are either self-refreshing [Critical Agility/Defenses] or long lasting [Way of Perfection/Master], and in the case of Critical Eye, instant activation. You won't be reliant on positioning and snares as much you would playing a Dervish. Dervish rarely gets to shine in freeform PvE as monsters run around and you'll be stuck recasting an enchantment every few seconds [since all the enchantments have arbitrary durations] resulting in a kind of jerky playstyle. If that cripple or deep freeze from your elem wears off or gets removed, you'll be spending 80% of your time NOT DPSing. Annoyingly, a few of the Dervish's oft-used skills are 1s+ casts, which is way too long for a melee character [see Anet's buff to Asuran Scan]. Being able to strike 3 foes at once sounds cool on paper but really the only time you'll be able to take advantage of it is when you're doing tank 'n spank. Tank 'n spank is only needed with elite areas though, and nobody takes a Dervish to those places.
The Dervish's damage system is inherently self-gimping. The upper end of the scythe sounds very impressive indeed; however, if you look at Dervish attack skills, they all have mediocre bonus damage. Bonus damage is everything, because it is armor-ignoring. In Hard Mode you're not going to be critting much at all since the monsters are at higher levels and you don't have anything to improve your chance to critical either [namely Critical Strikes attribute and related skills], so you can't depend on normal damage -- you'll be hitting with the low end more often than not. While Assassins are due for a nerf, their normal PvE ability still remains strong. Most people ignore the fact that daggers are imba when it comes to rapid, indefinitely maintainable armor ignoring damage because the Shadowform issue overshadows the class. With rapidly spammable attacks like Death Blossom doing around 80 armor ignoring damage every 2-3 seconds [depending if you're using Fox Fangs or Moebius], the Assassin excels at demolishing high-armor targets before they can drag out a fight long enough to really wear down your healers. Assassins have long suffered a reputation for being fragile, but nowadays with powerful hero builds like Sabway, Arkfenway [or whatever you Gurus have decided to call it], and Discord, there's little to worry about beyond common sense issues.

On paper, the Assassin currently rolls the Dervish for versatility, as they can farm, run, DPS, and teamplay as well or better than the Dervish. However, depending on how bad the SF nerf is and the likelihood of Anet giving some love to Dervishes in the future, the Dervish may be a fine investment. In the end, the main question comes back to whether you're willing to deal with the cast-heavy playstyle of the Dervish or not.

If you want to ensure yourself a spot in elite areas though, make sure you also work on a core profession such as the Ranger or Warrior. A Ranger makes a fine choice as an exceedingly versatile character in that they have a niche in everything from GvG to Speedclears to solo farming with traps [or just kiting back and forth waiting for a mob to get poisoned to death]. They can run melee just as well as an Assassin or Dervish [dagger spamming Rangers in Sway builds were all the rage before the nerf hammered them in PvP and same with Escape Scythe builds, and the Rampage as One builds have stayed viable since the beginning]. You can interrupt as well and more often than a Mesmer to boot. What you'll be trading in for is high maintainable DPS [...compared to an Assassin] and spellcasting, although I don't know why you'd worry about spellcasting if you say you don't enjoy playing casters.