Shadow Form meets the end

Lol, why couldn't spirit spam have been around in the old "no limit" MM days? I'm not sure peoples GFX cards would be able to cope, lol!

You Never tried proper balanced team then i guess.. Balanced can be as good as speed clear or what so ever, just needs more tactics, timing, coordinating etc. SKILL.

These days tank n spank is called cryway. Balanced is more like buffing a bunch of physicals out the wazoo and steamrolling everything.

Balanced traditionally contains...

1 Obsidian Flesh Warrior.
2 Monks.
1 1hp BiP Necro.
4 Elementalists.

It's Tank'n'Spank.

Personally, I prefer playing with several professions, with no tanking or any of that silliness, and minimal gimmickry. We call it H/H.

Spellbreaker isn't that powerful and it is extremely niche, completely unlike SF.

So, you notice preventing players from doing things fast is stupid. nice! i'm not alone!

Seem to me the whole reason behind nerfing SF is because 7 minutes clear is unacceptable.

Then I ask you: read quote
source

So, it takes 85 minutes to clear, very satisfying, making people spend more time than it actually should. Hrmz. contradicting! Don't you think? Now, if i got 30 minutes before dinner, I can't do shit.

With H/H, you can play the 30 minutes then go AFK for several hours and come back later and finish then.

And GW is so lightweight, you can even play other games on the same computer at the same time. What fun!

Off course we can Zahr Dalsk,

Point I am trying to make is, lots of player QQ about SF and the dev nerf it saying because 7 minutes clear is unacceptable, while having an ideal that everyone can play the game however they want spending lots of time or little time just "poofs" into thin air.

Well the idea is that an Elite Area takes a lot of time to play... but regular areas you can just play a while, go AFK or whatnot (and hey, most missions are doable in much less than thirty minutes) and resume play whenever.

so players who have 30 minutes before dinner won't ever see Elite Area?

WTF is a "proper" balanced team.

People like to change the meaning of balanced constantly to suit their agenda. What I'm speaking of is the good old definition of warrior tank + monks + necro (Bip) + as many elementalists nukers with a subsitution once in a while.

And really what I find people called "balanced" now is basically a gimmick tank + monks + necro (bip) + 4 other caster char stacking as many PvE skills (cryway style) as possible and its supposed to be balanced? STILL excludes dervishes, normal sins, ranger, etc.

For some people Physicalway = balanced..

Either way if it doesn't yield at least double of what I get casually playing easy area and doing Z quests on multiple chars (20k/hour)....its not worth it, considering it takes at least twice as much effort, longer to form a group, easy to fail...and that's for guilds only. Pugs is pretty much out of the picture with the way things are going.

Not 30 minutes before dinner. But on, say, a weekend, then sure.

[spoiler]Not including class discrimination and insistence on SF for all groups, of course.[/spoiler]

Don't get me wrong, its great ArenaNet is looking after their game and players by showing an interest. I am just very curious as to how they determine what stays and what goes. Plus i also don't care if SF stays or gets nullify.

Since the beginning of the game, players have been farming and there are lots of way to do lots of things fast, but why do people target certain skills and certain way of playing the game? while there's no reasons given what so ever except 7 minutes clear is unacceptable.

How is a 7 minutes clear unacceptable compare to a 5 seconds completion of Imperial Sanctum in HM? there are many more "shortcuts" ways that players are using to get to the game contents they wanted.

Would most of you agree that this was what Guildwars was made for? To play together as a group, team, pug? I have to agree with most of what people say about SF.

I bought Guildwars for the fun of being in a pug, and group. I find it most fun. Even if we get wiped, thats how you learn.

Now I have a sin, he dont have perma, but I like using him with heroes / henchmen or group.

I think all classes are very important and each to his own. I did a pug with UW and I had loads of fun.

However with that said, we had a permasin in our group to help us deal dmg // tank, helping us, he was a big help while I was on my ele nuking // bombing, he was a big help.

So is nerfing SF really worth it? In terms of helping the group and not soloing?

I for one is happy if Shadow Form is changed, and not like the other so called "nerfs" they did to it. It will be interesting to see what new builds and gimmicks that will come out after the changes :-)

I would however be in favor of a new Shadow Form that limit the skill to fighting only. Decreased duration, refresh on critical hit, with 50..75% chance to block spells.

I do hope they balance out Obsidian Flesh as well. 50..75% chance to block spells, 25..0% decreased movement speed.

You just listed the DoA SF build. I don't know who ever called that balanced, because 4 fire eles aren't it. And that was the gimmick before pve skills came crying along.

Take something like this build, except it's pretty easy to sub all those parts with any classes. Throw in a spirit spammer, load an ele up with orders or heals, add barbs splinter, whatever, it works fine, and you don't have to waste time balling enemies.

Er, Kain the ...testicle?

Where did you get this from?

Everyone called it balanced, and yes, it was all the rage in DoA. If you weren't one of those 4 classes you were SOL and JWF.

Hence why I despise Balanced, it's shitbuild and code for "Tank'n'Spank, You better be Holy Trinity Class or you stay out."

DoA Balanced, it should be in the PvX archives if you look around. Pre-EotN.

I don't know what balanced means where you're from, but where I'm from, it meant, you know, a balance of builds and classes, maybe you had 2 monks, since they were the only healers you could convince anyone to take, but aside from that, I ran balanced teams with every friggin class in the game.