Guild Wars Guru

My minionless spirit-way (Vloxen)

1 pages • Page 1
AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #1
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode
Me:
OwFQQlZMMiZvl1g6PxgTQA
Rit Lord:
OACQMBzo9m7sZ9CnOToJ
SoS support:
OACQMXzyZ1kZixkmDzLG
ER prot/smite:
OgNQM1CahWseEQgauk5B
Lina
Mhenlo
Lo Sha
Eve

So finally got around to testing a theorycraft I've been thinking of for a while. Nothing revolutionary, but I haven't seen this specific combination posted before and thought I'd share. No MM, because I never really liked minions and I hate how conditional they are.

I learned the hard way that spirits need to be manual'd, but after that, it was smooth sailing. I've never been through vloxen with a build that felt THIS powerful. Spirit combinations are definitely the strongest H/H setups in the game at the moment.

The hardest fight was actually the big mob on the first floor. I still maintain that this CAN be the hardest fight in the entir dungeon, depending on the spawn: 2 (3?) rezzers, mutliple healers, multiple MM's, half a minion army at the start thanks to the dredge slaves.

Anyway, comments/criticisms welcome
MercenaryKnight
MercenaryKnight
Forge Runner
• #2
Seems like the spirits shouldn't matter since you have save yourselves and er ele spamming protective spirits and spirit bonds imo.

Basically the SoS spirit has 4 single targeting attackers and a heal or 2. Ritual lord has utility spirits mainly.

It doesn't seem like the spirits offer a whole lot of damage since it'll for the most part be single target. Your main defenses come from save yourselves spamming and er ele. I realize the spirits with unfeeling armor add a bit of "tanking" but I have a feeling that more aoe damage would probably help more.

It seems like instead of focusing on killing power your relying on the spirits to be a make shift minion tank build to out last the fight.
Zodiac Meteor
Zodiac Meteor
Imma Firin Mah Rojway!
• #3
Oh, it's similar to my Stygian Veil run build. I know a lot about this.
Well, what I use is
a MM and resto spirit hybrid hero. Either it's aura of the Lich or a soul reaping elite. Use spirit's, not healing spells. Use the ally wide advantage of spirits.
a SS/SV communing spirits hero. This hero will have damage dealing spirits, defensive spirits won't help..
lastly a SoS necro. Adding the channeling spirit buff Spirit Bond to the mix.

Take 2 healer henchies to help with the build. You will notice a huge decrease in damage, it helps the healer henchies and your team overall.
upier
upier
Grotto Attendant
• #4
Saw this thread and decided to load my normal PvE build (well ALMOST my normal build. I don't normally run UA - but I think that's something everyone will notice ... ) and try out Vloxy since I figured your build should have too much defence.
Some 20 clovers later I got to the chest (don't get me STARTED on my luring skills. Which lead to almost being kicked out because I lured the necro key-dude onto the rez spot which ended with us being rezzed in the middle of the group that just kept getting bigger with every of our corpses).

Keep in mind this was actually my first time doing this dungeon in HM where I didn't wipe at the start of the second level.
I only did it once in NM before so the spawns and patrols were something I learned along the way.

I am liking the inclusion of Shattering Assault. Would probably be better then my Wastrel's since blocking is insane down there. Or maybe even Fox's Promise?
I am missing Union on the Rit Lord. I am guessing that would be a very nice addition for the boss (unless the minions steal life?). Still, given the unlimited energy of the ER-protter and your inclusion of SY! - this guy would probably be the first one to dump. But at the same time - if one has enough damage, why would one bother dumping stuff if it works?

Nice work. Need to try this out once I advance my guy a bit and he gets more heroes.
J
Jeydra
Forge Runner
• #5
Eve is bad, why'd you use her? I also think you use bad spirits (Shelter dies way too fast to be useful), but I'm no expert on Ritualists so no real comment other than this:

Quote: Originally Posted by traversc
I learned the hard way that spirits need to be manual'd, but after that, it was smooth sailing. I've never been through vloxen with a build that felt THIS powerful. Spirit combinations are definitely the strongest H/H setups in the game at the moment. Why don't you agree that Discordway is bad then
AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #6
@Upier: Why did you use UA rather ER? Is UA better in your opinion?

Also, I'm beginning to really dislike RoJ. It does the same amount of AoE as splinter, but has 4x the recharge and takes up an elite slot.

@Jeydra: I thought you were the spirit expert . Weren't you the one who posted a screenie going through duncan HM with spirits?

I took eve for BR, essentially, which I think did help. Mark of Fury possibly help put up SY!,but I didn't really pay close enough attention to notice. What other hench would you recommend? Herta's only saving grace is WaM. Zho with BHA is decent, but without the ability to lock on a target, I don't see her as being too useful (especially because I usually ended up targeting melee first as that was what the spirits targeted first).

By "strongest" I meant ability to take on tougher areas.

Discordway isn't worse than spiritway, it's just not useful for the same purposes. The extra ~5-10 minions compared to any other build combined with the continual death nova probably outputs about the same DPS as all the spirits combined, on top of discord. That's assuming you can upkeep all those minions, especially considering how fragile they are, which isn't going to happen in a place in a place like vloxen. Also, spiritway require a lot more micro, which makes it slower for general use.

Besides, you use discordway too, don't you ;o
upier
upier
Grotto Attendant
• #7
Quote: Originally Posted by traversc View Post @Upier: Why did you use UA rather ER? Is UA better in your opinion? I normally run WoH. And as you can see I just threw in UA, without giving much thought to it - hence why Dunky still has DPS on his bar. And DPS was just a leftover skill from doing Eternal - I normally bring Draw Conditions in that slot. So that monk build is not nearly thought through.
On ER - I think I ran it once. I need to try it out more these days, but the only ele hero I have currently unlocked is Vekky and I am to lazy to change his runes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc View Post
Also, I'm beginning to really dislike RoJ. It does the same amount of AoE as splinter, but has 4x the recharge and takes up an elite slot. The biggest issue for me is filling the hero slots with that I really want. And that is SoH and two Splinters (and ARs). And that's pretty much it. With anything else just being fillers. So I used to run Balthazar's Pendulum instead of RoJ. But now I am back to RoJ because well, 14 in smiting and 10 in channeling certainly does not leave you with many viable elites.
J
Jeydra
Forge Runner
• #8
Herta is good; she does more damage than Eve. BR is bad; if you need it to maintain your energy then run more energy management - besides the AI uses it even if you don't need energy (how many times has the AI put BR on you while you're waiting for AP to trigger for energy?). If you don't like Herta use Cynn.

Quote: Originally Posted by traversc
Besides, you use discordway too, don't you ;o I stopped long ago. Discordway has its uses, but in the realm of "general PvE" it is utterly outclassed by other builds.

PS: Spiritway doesn't take micro. It's there as an option if you really need it, but in most fights you don't need to micro at all.
PPS: Minions pwn. Even in an area like Vloxen's.
PPPS: upier your build has even more defense ...
upier
upier
Grotto Attendant
• #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post Herta is good; she does more damage than Eve. BR is bad; if you need it to maintain your energy then run more energy management - besides the AI uses it even if you don't need energy (how many times has the AI put BR on you while you're waiting for AP to trigger for energy?). If you don't like Herta use Cynn. The problem with Herta is Renew Life.
The rez siggy was a better choice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post PS: Spiritway doesn't take micro. It's there as an option if you really need it, but in most fights you don't need to micro at all. When it comes to offensive spirits, I am in huge support of micro.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
PPS: Minions pwn. Even in an area like Vloxen's. It depends on the character you play with. If minions actually play a role on a melee guy, then you are doing it wrong.

AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #10
I took this build through SoO. Getting to the end was easy, but Fendi was a b****. I ended up using a few clovers I happened to have. Actually, if the crewmen spawn didn't bug out twice, I'm not sure I would have made it through.
mage767
mage767
Desert Nomad
• #11
Quote:
The hardest fight was actually the big mob on the first floor. I still maintain that this CAN be the hardest fight in the entir dungeon, depending on the spawn: 2 (3?) rezzers, mutliple healers, multiple MM's, half a minion army at the start thanks to the dredge slaves.

Anyway, comments/criticisms welcome
If you wait for the dwarfs to kill off the workers then, yeah, this fight can be difficult. So, make sure that you aggro them right when the workers go nuts and attack the dwarfs.
r
ruemere
Academy Page
• #12
This is just a suggestion - have you tried replacing your E/Mo with Fevered Dreams mesmer?

Specifically:
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40/40 Illusion, hp set

My spiritspammer heroes are pretty similar to yours (fewer spirits, more energy recovery), but this little guy practically locks down groups before opponents break through Shelter. Actually, thanks to this guy I usually do a lot of HM adventuring with a single healer (Mhenlo) and Devona (to play tank's role in case opponents really need to be kept at the distance).

Regards,
Ruemere
AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #13
Not that anyone still cares, but I finally bothered taking this through Duncan HM. Very happy with the results. No wipes at ALL. Actually, no deaths except for getting caught by Restless during spirit swap. See screen.
F
Ferminator
Frost Gate Guardian
• #14
Nice job dude. I was getting sick of minions anyway, olias is always lagging behind spamming death nova and sometimes i agro 50mobs.

I take it that you have no problem with the recharge of the spirits? The long recharging ones on the rit lord and the short recharging ones on the ss?

Could the ER healer be replaced by a N/mo? just switch the ele skills with something else? And can the hero use ER properly?
B
Bashyy
Pre-Searing Cadet
• #15
This is amazing guys
Now i have one question, Could i run something like RoJ on my monk and still get the same results? Or is this only working because the spamming of "Save Yourselfs"?
AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #16
@Ferm: you could try replacing the ER with an N/Mo. But I wouldn't rely on SR for energy. I don't see the benefit of goin N/Mo. ER lets you spam forever, even if you need to manual it sometimes, and there aren't really any prot or smite elites I'd consider.

@Bashy: SY helps quite a bit, but I don't think it's necessary, especially if you micro the rit lord. If you're going to play a caster, you probably want to ditch the ER for something else. I know Jeydra did duncan on his ele with a similar build but with a minion bomber.
F
Faye Aeris
Academy Page
• #17
This works really well, even better than sabway in most situations. I tweaked it a bit after some testing, and found that it has become a lot more reliable.

Me:
Imbagon

I changed Ritual Lord to Offering of Spirits, since the hero has no energy management besides Boon of Creation. Also, Razah is crap at maintaining Boon of Creation, so I replaced that with a second copy of Spirit Siphon. Shelter lasts for about 2 seconds in hardmode, and less if you have minions, so I replaced that with Pain. Finally, because of energy management problems with my other ritualist, I replaced armor of unfeeling with Painful Bond.

For the Signet of Souls ritualist, I made the following changes:

Removed Painful Bond because it costs too much energy, especially when you can't receive wand/offhand bonuses because of PwK. I found that Xandra was spending all her time using up her energy healing and summoning spirits, so I moved Painful Bond to Razah. To fill in for Painful Bond, I put in Spirit Light, which helps immensely when being spiked heavily.

I changed the E/R protter to provide a little healing, so that Xandra isn't stuck healing everybody and wasting all of her energy.

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Shield Guardian
Shield of Absorption
Patient Spirit
Heal Other

I tried to put in the fastest casting, most powerful heals and prots, disregarding energy costs. Aegis was removed because of its long casting time and recharge. In areas with enchantment stripping, it's best to have many spammable cover enchantments.
AtomicMew
AtomicMew
Jungle Guide
• #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Faye Aeris View Post
This works really well, even better than sabway in most situations. I tweaked it a bit after some testing, and found that it has become a lot more reliable.

Me:
Imbagon

I changed Ritual Lord to Offering of Spirits, since the hero has no energy management besides Boon of Creation. Also, Razah is crap at maintaining Boon of Creation, so I replaced that with a second copy of Spirit Siphon. Shelter lasts for about 2 seconds in hardmode, and less if you have minions, so I replaced that with Pain. Finally, because of energy management problems with my other ritualist, I replaced armor of unfeeling with Painful Bond.

For the Signet of Souls ritualist, I made the following changes:

Removed Painful Bond because it costs too much energy, especially when you can't receive wand/offhand bonuses because of PwK. I found that Xandra was spending all her time using up her energy healing and summoning spirits, so I moved Painful Bond to Razah. To fill in for Painful Bond, I put in Spirit Light, which helps immensely when being spiked heavily.

I changed the E/R protter to provide a little healing, so that Xandra isn't stuck healing everybody and wasting all of her energy.

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Shield Guardian
Shield of Absorption
Patient Spirit
Heal Other

I tried to put in the fastest casting, most powerful heals and prots, disregarding energy costs. Aegis was removed because of its long casting time and recharge. In areas with enchantment stripping, it's best to have many spammable cover enchantments. Looks good. With an imbagon, you probably don't need any defensive spirits at all. On the ER hero, I strongly dislike shield guardian. The hero doesn't spam, and so I'd much rather take something like aegis, convert hexes, or extinguish instead.

On the communing, I see little reason to take so much e-management if you aren't going to spam with ritual lord. Offering of spirits is good, but I'd much rather use my elite for signet of ghostly might. Also, yes, heroes don't use boon of creation properly, but if you're willing to micro a bit, I think you'll see better results.

Don't forget to take anthem of envy. Be brave and pump up command to 16 for big, big damage.
Arrogant Bastard
Arrogant Bastard
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #19
Try putting SoH on the SoS Rit and replace the heals with smite hex/condition, etc.

This allows you to bring heals on the ER ele and have lvl 12 SoH.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery

Quote: Originally Posted by ruemere View Post
Xenomortis
Xenomortis
Tea Powered
• #20
Quote: Originally Posted by ruemere View Post
This is just a suggestion - have you tried replacing your E/Mo with Fevered Dreams mesmer?

Specifically:
OQZFAYoTqzm0NwEADoTz6QGQcTPA
40/40 Illusion, hp set I see little point in FD heroes.
Particularly with that build - Steam and Blurred Vision overlap. Either BV is redundant or the blind from steam is to unreliable for GoI+Steam to be worthwhile. Me/N would be better with Weakness and Reckless Haste. And then you should consider if N/Me would be better, but by then you'd be considering if an outright Curses nec would superior.
The strength of FD builds come from the PvE skills you can get on a human bar and a humans ability to unload and spam his skills in the right order (never seen a hero get even that basic step correct).

When it comes to heroes, E/Mo is the strongest defensive option with the possible exception of a Ritualist spirit spammer. But of course, the OP's original setup includes both.
Soul Reaping pales when compared to Ether Renewal, even when in the hands of heroes.