Zaishen Service The Biggest Scam of GW?

No I definatly did not put 7500 keys into Z Title o.O.

well to be fair I think this amount is only 7200 but I bought z5 on a different account also, want to see my drop pics? But I thought we were at least beyond this LOL.

You are still going on about this? lol. This is not against Ventari's Guidelines.

The sole reason the selling of lottery tickets is not permitted in Ventari's is because it is nearly impossible to gauge the legitimacy/intent of the person selling the tickets.

When it comes to the zchest, it is a lottery, but a lottery where its legitimacy is somewhat certain, at least in the sense where everyone knows, or has the information to know, what they are getting into.

i think you have a problem with z-chest drops, not with the actual service thats being offered.

if i have 20 zkeys i want to spunk on the zchest and dont mind about my title, i might aswell go to a person who offers the service and get 40 drops instead of 20.

40 is better than 20 right?

whether i get good drops or bad drops, its completely irrelevant to the point youre trying to make.

its a good service, both for provider and the consumer.

Provider gets double his zaishen title per key.

Consumer gets double drops per key.

wheres the "scam"?

Then may I suggust you update your rules. As it stands the Ventari rules stricly contradict your preceeding statment

EDIT: My bad you aren't a mod for ventari anymore, I will leave it to a real mod to do the changes or correct 1 of us with our interpretation of the rule

Hey, it sucks that you sit in Kamadan taking advantage of the fact that other people don't know item prices as well as you do. You of all people can't make an argument for what's legitimate and what's not on these grounds. The trading community uses the same defense.

The problem with things like duping and a broken SF is that they change the underlying time <-> money equation. ANet bans for duping for a reason; the duper can effectively make everyone else instantly poor. Why shouldn't you exploit SF? The basic problem is that you should; you're losing ground to others unless you do, and unless you have time to burn when the exploit is available.

By contrast, there's nothing inherently wrong with what you do. People do save time by selling to you at a discount, and you invest your time moving items to more motivated buyers. This doesn't mess with the rate at which players can convert time to money generally.

Even so, I find it ridiculously ironic that you make your money by taking advantage of others' lack of education about prices but attempt to educate others about the "real" value of a zkey.

Using a zkey is a lottery. Using a Coffer of Whispers is a lottery. You want to ban the sale of zkeys and Coffers? These are also lotteries.

Here's what happens in this Zaishen service: the players are simply separating the two functions of a zkey (drops and points) and improving the rate at which each receives the desired function. Everybody wins.

Let's compare this to Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment. The box in the experiment is the zaishen chest and the zkey is the radioactive material...... If you use the zchest without looking you got both a good drop and a bad drop at the same time..... LOL......until you collapse the wave function.

By this logic anyone who also provides a chest running service or sells UNID items is also scamming. Anyone foolish to think Z Chest is a money making tool is seriously misinformed.

There is no scamming involved as many others have said, the only way it would be a scam if either party did not live up to their predetermined part of the agreement. The client agrees to supply a Zaishen key and the service provider agrees to relinquish both drops to the client.

Just because the end result of the deal results in the client losing money doesnt make it a scam, just a bad investment. The same thing can be said about people who pay 600 gold for an unid'd item and not get a mod worth more then the buying price and thus merchanting the item.

They are not in contradiction. The rules just fail to give a reason why "lottery" tickets or "chances to win" are not permitted to be sold. Every simple rule shouldn't have to be explained. The reason for the rule's existence should be self-evident.

And what about people who open the chest themselves just for the drops, not caring about the title? There are lots of them, really, and tons of keys are getting used this way every day. Are they complete idiots scamming themselves getting 2x worse deal than they would if they used the service?
They don't think so, but the service is for them and it does them a big favor.
Also note that in the free market of services people don't compete and don't offer better exchange rates, so it can't be that far from being fair.

I see you just can't stand seeing other people get the title cheaper than you did, despite the fact they do it the smarter way.

Things like this have been in GW for a long time, most notably in giving someone keys to run chests for you. Chest drops don't pay for the keys, typically, unless you get particularly lucky.

It's an agreed arrangement and thus there is nothing to be said about it.

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This is a simple thread.

We are discussing the validity of the claim of the Zaishen Service being a scam.

We are not being armchair psychiatrists trying to explain why creating the thread is some sort of character flaw in the OP. Posts of this sort will be met with irritation.

It was clearly stated that the people who were "apparently" getting scammed were those who only wanted drops and had no interest in ztitle.

Actually I paid 6k each for my Z title since I got it when it 1st came out. Yeah I feel stupid for that. No I don't feel stupid for recognizing, imo, that the Zaishen Service is extoring money from people allowing them to achieve otherwise unreachable goals at the expense of the client. Thus forcing the average joe to work twice as hard to accomplish the same task. The answer is not, do it too, what the answer is I am trying to figure out, feel free to reccomend an alternative.

The argument is invalid.

the answer is... if u don't like it get over it
it's a choice people make and it is their right to make that choice
u paid for ur title just like they are paying for theirs
do u think the zkeys they use to double my return just appear in their inventory?
they have to buy those
sure they are getting it half off... i'm getting to gamble and get double the chances that i would normally get
i tell u what i'll sell u all my zkeys for 3k each... u sell me a everlasting tonic for 3k how's that?

btw to the idiot moderator that said my post before this one didn't contribute to the discussion... I made a point that some people do not care about titles and want to gamble maybe u should learn to read before u become a moderator

^^ I love your logic, I give you an EL yeti (40e) value you give me all teh free Z Keys you get from predictions and PvP

Too bad I smell a ban comming up before I can take you up on that offer.

But to the point regardless of what you think of me, fewer people will use this service today than yesterday. They now realize the winnings are few and far between, not to mention they jackpot sucks. Like zomg I used 3500 keys.. but I gotz teh EL Charr tonic i winz!!11!!1!!

But EL charr tonics lasts forever!!!!

People using the service to get more drops are giving out the keys because they want the drops, and obviously don't care about the points. It is more in their benefit, from their point of view, to have two drops for the cost of a single key rather than one drop and title progression that they don't care (as much) about.

On the flip side, the runner doesn't care about drops, but rather the points, and so they are willing to give up whatever they get out of the chest for more points to their title. It's more in their benefit to have ten title points for one key rather than five points and whatever gamble of a drop they obtain.

Both parties know what they are giving up, they both know what they're getting, and they are both doing this willingly and on multiple occasions. This can not possibly be a scam.

Not sure if this has already been said... but...

Why would a person buy a lottery ticket in real life? To win big, right?
It is the same in this, the person giving up their key is getting 2 drops for the price of one, thus increasing their chance for a big payoff in the end. The person using the keys gets their title for less money too. Everyone wins. (Other than you apparently...)

The service is not a lottery. You know EXACTLY what you get. It is the ZChest that is a lottery.

After reading this pointless, illogical thread I think I'm going to pay for the service to help some poor chap get his title just to piss the OP off.