The problem with the nerf bat seems to be the purpose behind swinging it

I thought the recent SF nerf did a good job of weakening a very overpowered skill without totally destroying it. Others here apparently agree.

The unified system is what the game should strive for. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but rather, it actually makes sense since this allows for an easier transition between the two formats, especially in a game where you have literary 100s of skills!
The problem was that PvE, with it's persistent world, wasn't modified after the changes were made.

Nerf or buff the hell out of every skill based on what the best PvPers want. But keep in mind that, if a skill is balanced if it does 80 ele damage vs a 60AL guy - casters in PvE can NOT have 100AL. And a unified system would work if this was considered.
It wasn't, because the guys were to lazy and took the easy road out. They added special rules which fixed some issues but at the same time opened new ones. So they decided to add more moronic ideas. And that just spiraled downwards.


PvE sucks because they made moronic decisions regarding PvE.



No, we don't.
if the only way the skill is viable is by having permanent immunity to spells and attacks - then that skill probably shouldn't be in this game.

Hmm, all that military experience and training was so contrived then, because that is exactly what we did over coms. And funny enough, I have friends staying alive because of it.
There are still a lot of dial-up players and you are right, they learn very early - as I did when dial-up was the only thing available, not to bother with PvP on dial-up. (Loading to find all your team dead and the foe waiting on your LZ.) However, if PvP is only for the elite playa with the elite ISP, then there really was no point in including PvP with the PvE game for those poor back-woods schmucks who couldnt afford a 3k comp and corporate level ISPs.

If you are going to agree with me then you shouldnt call it BS. That is correct, the extreme differences in skill set ups and wide variables make it very difficult to master all 10. If the skill structures worked more the same, one could change character classes easily for different effects/graphics but continue to use the same play patterns. And I do not know the ins and outs of all 10 classes, but I am conversant with all 10 having an active character in every class, that makes me a better Guild Leader, and a better player - because of being able to look at what I can do to evaluate what the opponent can do.

I have my own builds, thank you. I will look at what is on PvX wiki to see if there is something inspirational, or that seems to work more effectively on Heroes. I would not put my builds on PvX wiki because I consider that the fastest way for NC West to go, "OMG, something that is functional - quick kill it!"

One character for each profession (10), one mule for each character (10), one mule for holiday stuff (1), one mule for mini-pets (1), one mule for books (1), 1 slot for special projects (getting things in Pre, PvP quickstuff) (1), six on other account from before we were allowed enough slots to play one of each class (and Factions on it). Yes over $500.00 into GW at this point.

Perhaps you are not entertained by consistency in theme and appearance (of which there is very little planned for in GW) or do not place as much value on those whom you lead as I do.

The chests are useless. I do not need another 300 purple mesmer weapons with substandard mods and a 100g from every other one. I used to do Chest runs once a month. I quit because they were and remain useless. Last time my neighbor and I went together she received one half-baked purple out of all 12 and everyother one for me was completely empty for no reason (I had not been to them already). Running is unproductive, although an interesting sport - I have enjoyed watching the one pin actively try to avoid 10,000 angry bowling balls. However, I should not need at any point to give up game play in order to WORK outside of entertaining play to make game money so that I can get things I need to enjoy playing the game. Things I am after should come at a reasonable rate of effort, not be used to force me to be social with people I have no time or need to like in transactions that do not have what I want anyway at prices I could not afford anyway.

I can and have run ATFH in both NM and HM. That is 5 to 14k in about 5 minutes. It is also nothing I am interested in doing just for money. I take my alliance members through for free, and anyone that helped them get there. Being able to get what I am after through regular game play should happen. I should not be coerced into farming, running, soloing, grinding in order to get things that will allow me to play enjoyably in the missions, quests, and helping alliance and non-alliance members.

However, it was not immune to damage. Conditions could be applied without direct assault, indirect damage applied, armor ignoring damage applied, damage from skills that were not weapons or spells applied, and yes you could die from these. Watch an SF Sin run screaming from an illusionary weapon, AoE where they were a side target, condidions caused by environmental/spirit effects, traps, etc. SF was not invulnerable.

Nor is it the only nerf in the game that has massively been aimed at destroying public opportunity. Anything, social or solo, that provides more people reasonable access to get what they want through their own effort (solo or in group) is nerfed. The idea that an economy can be maintained without establishing and keeping a few elite rich and 99.9% in abject poverty does not seem to have hit GW. This is not a call to make everything just drop for free as one walks out the door into an instance. Between the two extremes is reasonable effort - GW does not seek that sort of balance. If one does not enjoy spending 80% of their game time making money at the expense of others then what were they thinking. They can't possibly want to be both successful and enjoy the game. (Reminds me of a professor once who told a single working widow and mother of three to pick between her children or her career, because obviously we cannot make allowances for both what we need and want to achieve.)

That's why people abuse SF in areas where those options aren't present.
Given the persistent nature of PvE - the options that bypass SF might as well not exist.

KK, well at it again. Nefing shadowform really only killed mesmers using it witout massive con help. That sucked because there isn't that many farmin' Mesmer builds. I hate the nerf and still do. As far as forcing multiplayer play; ANET isn't forcing this at all except in the most elite areas. Discordway and Sabway are being majorly abused by all classes to beat PVE. ANET hasn't even tried to nerf either. FOW and UW were ALWAYs meant to be multiplayer experiences. That is why henchies were never available. Farming got so ridiculous in these areas an 8 man team can't beat them anymore WITHOUT speedclear due to the nerfs. Oh with planning and such, but who can plan with a PUG? ANET epic failed in PVE tryig to force Multiplayer and gave up in Nightfall as evidenced by heros. Obviously, GW was meant to be more PVP oriented at the start but PVE was what sold the games. The fixes are killing the game in a lot of ways. When ANET decided to be Big Brother in PVE they started killing peoples favorite builds. I have been in sales for 15 years and I know the most important thing is to be carefull in alienating customers. Once they leave they rarely come back. People do have favorites and ANET does understand that. Proof is Sins can still Perma with a little more thought. (and less lag) ANET's goal is simple at this point: drag out the grind to protect whatever customer base is left. They need the PVE folks as well as whatever PVP is left to start the GW2 community or it will fail miserably. In the process they ARE losing some of us in every NERF. Call it QQ, or whining or whatever. ANET is losing customers and that will kill GW2 before it hits the stores. SO quit flaming those who lament their lost farms and builds. If they don't buy, you can't play. GW2 is vaporware and GW1 is getting thin. ANET is trying to save their hides and failing miserably. So ANET, stop nerfin, GW is over. Release stuff on GW2 before it is too late.

win.
1234567890

Did somone actually compare GW vent or TS to combat? If you were ever in the service you wouldnt say something that damned stupid. there is no comparison to the multi-layered comms used in the service and this crap. further more dont even try and stick anything in GW up against what our men and woman in service do. STOOOOOPID.



Cronk

PS 30 armor sets all with superior vigor is 480k not 1000k

so go ahead and write another entire thesis on the philosophy of the human condition and how its rendered mute by the nerfing of some skill. this whole thread smacks of cry me a damn river because there E-peen isnt large enough.

SOMEONE CLOSE THIS ALREADY

"effectively playing" can be achieved by 1k consulate docks armor. Prestige armor, is just that. for Prestige and shouldnt be just handed out through normal gameplay. btw if you finish a campaign from beginning to end, and merch stuff etc. it'll net you around 100k, enough to by an elite armor set. I think you're biggest problem is the fact that you have 30 goredengine'ing characters. I'm assuming that they are on different accounts, and if they are, do some predictions, with that, you get enough z-keys to buy what ever you want.
moral of the story, you need 11 characters max. 1 of each PvE and one rotating PvP-only.

oh yeah and uh /agree with everyone else....QQ less plz

Oops! Double post..sorry!

This is absolutely not true! It's the very opposite!

My partner always made these crazy unique builds that got nerfed soon after. Also, after making my own builds and watching them get nerfed, I tried to take people’s advice and take it with a grain of salt and just remake my characters using builds from wiki. I was hoping that just taking on a pre-made build would save me the grief that I got after seeing a build I worked long and hard on get completely obliterated.

However, it just didn’t work for me. I don't feel comfortable with other people's builds. In fact it was really boring playing the same cookie-cutter build that everyone was playing. Likewise, I couldn't very often use any of my husband’s builds because he enjoys playing very offensively and I am very much a defensive player.

As for the 30 characters that the OP has, well...I actually have even more than that. I think having lots of characters is the sign of a real role-player because I have always been into making a lot of different personalities. The characters could even have the same builds but the personalities of each of the characters would be different. I usually play the character that suits the mood I am in at the time.

In addition, having so many characters costs me so much more gold than it does a person who has fewer characters. I play for the same amount of time that someone with one account might play, yet I have so many more heroes to put runes on, so many more skills to buy and so much more armor to purchase. It’s taken me forever to get a couple of suits of elite stuff. A few of my characters still wear the freebie collector’s armor.

I don't farm and therefore, I don't have as much money as the next person. But I do make up for some of that by getting an abundance of minipets (mind you I have deleted and remade so many characters before thinking this one through) and I get to do festival quests with all of my characters. Those are two saving graces.

However, because I play personalities instead of utilitarian builds, I am much more resistant to alterations to my builds. Nerfs just plunge my characters into the depths of storagedom and that is where they stay.

Whoever else is against nerfing…well, I am on their side, no matter what (unless they are particularly offensive in some way). Nerfs very much DO kill my PvE enjoyment of the game in such a huge way that I will never stop being opposed to them and I will never give up my fight against them.

since this post has spiraled into a ittle of this and a little of that im just gonna respond to points of interest.

one thing i hope someone can explain is ....How do you play personalities? i mean like how can someone have different personalities for characters. cant you just pretend your usually peppy char is pissed or vice versa. the faces dont change you dont normally speak "sound speak" to anyone unless you are on TS and in a guild which play acts i guess. this is all so sureal/strange.

the last word on nerfing for me is this. if a skill is just rediculously overpowered then i dont see the problem toneing it down. often times skills dont become overpowered until they are coupled with onther skill. to me thats just smart playing on someones part.

also people do not "steal" builds from wiki, they are there for that very reason. public build forumns where people submit the builds to be tested and then posted for use isnt theft.

if you think wiki is for the weak then dont use them. ive used some and others i already had something more efficient. not a big deal either way.


BRING BACK URSAN BLESSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!



Cronk

You bought Guild Wars for PvP Experience? That's where the real fun's at. Unless you're maxing titles, or farming for e-peen~boosting items for your PvP characters, clearing Elite areas or helping out friends, PvE gets really boring. If you want a good Guild Wars experience, go get some friends and either play forms of PvP you like, clear elite areas in PvE, or go buy a real PvE game like WoW

(Note: Buying WoW may decrease PvP ability)

Me/A can't maintain it forever now.

You are not worthy enough to recieve this:


Less QQ......more pew pew!!!!
_______________
And a Wallow shall lead them.

OK... this has gone on long enough... to both the OP and Dryndalyn:

No one forced you to have 30+ characters. No one forced you to play the way you play. No one forced you to roleplay each one of your characters.

These were decisions that YOU made, not ANet, not NCSoft, not any of the other players in the game.

^
This quote is the reason you should NEVER HAVE IN-GAME CASHFLOW GRIPES, along with the Xunlai Tournament House predictions.

Point one: You don't farm, so you don't have as much money as the next person

Whose CHOICE was that, hmmm? YOURS. Don't gripe about the choices you make, it's hypocritical, and it's just plain sad.

Point two: I do make up for some of that by getting 30+ minis and 30+ chances to do Festival Quests

Hey look! Maybe... just MAYBE this is your chance to profit off of having multiple characters! 2 of my friends, Jackal and Puss, have over 17 characters each. Their minis get sold if they have multiples of ones they don't want, and each of their 17 characters does Festival Quests. The last Festival I remember them actively playing was Canthan New Year, where they massed over 200k each from the Festival Quests. 20 minutes per character for the Quests = less than 6 hours of Questing time in TOTAL. Split over Saturday and Sunday, that was less than 3 hours a day spent on the Quests, which left them PLENTY of time to spend with their real-life friends and family, considering their GW Time is after all the kids have gone to bed. TIME MANAGEMENT is your friend.

Point three: M.O.X. Quest Reward and Full HM Tour Book Rewards

Finishing the M.O.X. Quests gets you 10k. Finishing a Full HM Tour completing the new Books gets you around 60k. That's 70k per Character. In your case, with 30 Characters, that's 2,100k.

QQ MOAR

I'm betting this guy's got a /played time of 365 days or more...

retarded qqing +1

Different strokes, I guess. I literally found 4 sup. vigors in one month. Sold one, put the other three on prestige armor. But that was a year and a half after I started playing, and I haven't found a sup since (~9 months ago).

Hey, if we can have a 500/5 second damage skill like hundred blades, why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO can't we use Ursan Blessing?
BRING BACK URSAN BLESSING!
I still love it and have it as my avatar

Massive QQing, trolling, +1's, etc. Recipe for disaster, closed.