Flail Vs. Aggressive Refrain - Guild Wars Guru Archive

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Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:27 PM • #1

Hey guys, new here, and new to Paragons. Be gentle, please :P

Now, I'm running a spear master build, it's not the greatest but I don't have a lot unlocked and I don't have EOTN, so my choices are a bit limited.

Anyway, enough of me trying to excuses about too bad to keep up Aggressive Refrain. Question is: if I'm having trouble keeping up Aggressive Refrain, is Flail a good/better choice to get IAS? The speed decrease isn't fun, but I'd like to not lose -20 armor either.

Thanks,
Reaver

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Me/

Joined Nov 2005

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:31 PM • #2

Quote: Originally Posted by -Reaver-

Hey guys, new here, and new to Paragons. Be gentle, please :P

Now, I'm running a spear master build, it's not the greatest but I don't have a lot unlocked and I don't have EOTN, so my choices are a bit limited.

Anyway, enough of me trying to excuses about too bad to keep up Aggressive Refrain. Question is: if I'm having trouble keeping up Aggressive Refrain, is Flail a good/better choice to get IAS? The speed decrease isn't fun, but I'd like to not lose -20 armor either.

Thanks,
Reaver Nope. If you have trouble keeping up refrain then practice. Others can do it and it isn't difficult. You just need to get into the habbit of using your trigger chant/shout on recharge.

Also, if in PvE take a sup leadership helm to switch to when using refrain then swap back after you cast it. You will end up with a longer lasting refrain which is much easier to keep up.

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-Reaver-

Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:34 PM • #3

Alright, thanks for the helm idea, I'm currently using a +20 or so staff to get off shots when I'm low on energy.

What are the popular anthems to keep it up? I see Flame mostly, any other good ones?

angmar_nite

Jungle Guide

[SNOW] of [YUM]

E/

Joined Feb 2007

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:35 PM • #4

Weariness is nice, but if you got good micromanagement you can just do it with TNTF and save the slot.

Monk Gsb

Wilds Pathfinder

Mo/Me

Joined Oct 2006

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:42 PM • #5

flail > agressive any day (unless u need your 2nd prof for somthing else).

only smart ppl run away from para's that use flail, and there are non of them left in gw's

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-Reaver-

Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:47 PM • #6

Currently got [and this is a PVP char with very little unlocks, mind you]

Cruel Spear, Spear of Lightning, Barbed Spear, Blazing Spear, Anthem of Flame, Fall Back, Aggressive Refrain, Resurrection Signet / Leader's Comfort [changing based on AB or RA]

Plan on swapping out Blazing Spear for something, since Anthem of Flame is already spreading Burning like the plague in a high physical group. Any ideas what to swap it out for?

Also, how do I make my skills show up with tooltips and icons? Anyone mind directing me to a thread on how to do it?

Thanks again.

T

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Joined Sep 2006

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM • #7

Aggressive Refrain. Flail takes 1 adrenaline from all your other skills and AR is a one time use skill.

Grugio

Ascalonian Squire

Joined Dec 2006

Sep 1, 2008 at 11:55 PM • #8

And you get a certain amount of mobility with aggressive that flail doesn't have....

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

Joined Sep 2007

Sep 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM • #9

As for mobility-it only plays a factor if you get hit with AoE. For attacking you're a ranged unit-you'd barely have to move.

T

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Joined Sep 2006

Sep 2, 2008 at 12:32 AM • #10

Quote: Originally Posted by Grugio

And you get a certain amount of mobility with aggressive that flail doesn't have.... As Richard said, mobility isn't much of a factor when it comes to Paragons.

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

Joined Oct 2005

Sep 2, 2008 at 12:33 AM • #11

You can bind/micromanage Shout skills from other heroes on your mouse keys. I.E. [["watch yourself], [["the power is yours"], [[anthem of flame], [[anthem of weariness], [["fall back]. That's what I do when running Paraway. Helps me keep Aggressive Refrain with no energy problems.

Accursed

Wilds Pathfinder

Joined Sep 2007

Sep 2, 2008 at 12:35 AM • #12

[[aggressive refrain]. It's just wow compared to [[Flail].

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-Reaver-

Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 2, 2008 at 1:41 AM • #13

So er... what's the final verdict?

R

Rhamia Darigaz

Desert Nomad

Joined Apr 2008

Sep 2, 2008 at 1:51 AM • #14

Quote: Originally Posted by -Reaver-

So er... what's the final verdict? after reading the thread(!) it looks like the final verdict is aggressive refrain.
rocket science pew pew pew

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

Joined Jan 2008

Sep 2, 2008 at 1:54 AM • #15

aggressive refrain. just try and stay out of melee.

skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633

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-Reaver-

Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 2, 2008 at 2:10 AM • #16

Quote: Originally Posted by joshuarodger

aggressive refrain. just try and stay out of melee.

skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633 Thanks for the help on both parts. Currently I'm using ["Fall Back!"] to get out of melee, any better alternatives?

snaek

Forge Runner

N/

Joined Mar 2006

Sep 2, 2008 at 2:15 AM • #17

its not jus that [aggressive refrain] is better than [flail]

its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary

first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...

a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s

so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again

and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again

not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills

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-Reaver-

Ascalonian Squire

Liars, Cheats, and Thieves [Liar]

R/

Joined Sep 2008

Sep 2, 2008 at 2:28 AM • #18

Quote: Originally Posted by snaek

its not jus that [aggressive refrain] is better than [flail]

its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary

first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...

a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s

so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again

and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again

not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills Alright, thanks for the help. Using Aggressive Refrain now, works great when I spam Anthem of Flame. Using Fall Back if I get into a tricky spot with melee, so it's balancing out nicely. I just saw a lot of warriors using it for IAS and it seemed like a lot better alternative to the 25 energy 2 second cast time on Aggressive.

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

Joined Sep 2007

Sep 2, 2008 at 4:25 AM • #19

But keep in mind that AR is essentially infinite-if you're good you only have to use it once (unless you screw up

).

I like using Flail on my warrior, but when I tried it on my paragon I didn't care for it. Hitting it every 5s was a pain.

o

odly

Krytan Explorer

N/

Joined Jan 2006

Sep 2, 2008 at 6:02 AM • #20

Essence of Celerity beats both as an ias in the game and it doesn't take a skill slot.