Dragons Throughout Guild Wars

Primordus does not fly anywere. It explicty says that he is in the depths. Here is the exact line:

As Leon said, through concept art. In fact, we only call Grothmar the water dragon because of the concept art. The concept art of Grothmar is the only place that says "water dragon."

How do you know the Sylvari will be a minority? :P

Also, in Leon's map, I'd spread Drakkar's territory north, the White Mantle would be on the boarder and the Maguuma Centaur on the other side. And Lion's Arch is also occupied by the Zaishen Order in GW2, not just corsairs.

Lion's Arch, in GW2, has become a city ruled by Corsairs and the Zaishen. It'll be interesting how it turns out, in my opinion. You have one group who would rule the city as a "the only law is that there is no law" kind of place, while the other would probably make it a second battle isles.

So Primordus stays.

I can't see Grothmar flying down, or why the Water Dragon would fly to a desert.
I'd expect Drakkar to control the Far shiverpeaks, and have the Far north dragon fly down over ascalon.

leon: I am guessing that the Sylvari will coexist with the asura, they both seem to be for peace and neutrality.

And Mursaat land is relevant, they're clearly the antagonists of GW2

Which one is the dragon who's sleeping beneath where used to be Orr?O?

"Malchor" is the dragon that rose up with Arah, controls all passage in the body of water south of the Tarnished coast (the pink line), he might also be dragon that controls the crystal desert.

If Grothmar is the water dragon, and "In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land", there might be some conflict. I could see Grothmar controlling water, or even somehow getting to a true body of water (not the little lake in the charr homelands), but I could never see Grothmar actually flying.

I assume you're talking about this peice of work? If so, I'd have to say that the concept for Grothmar has changed drastically since it was first created and named. For one thing, he was near a coastline or a very large body of water in that original peice, certainly not that little puddle where he resides in actuallity. Also, as you mentioned previously Konig, the Charr don't have ships that we know of, certainly not any multi-masted long range ships shown in that concept. It seems more plausible to me that that image was called the "Waterdragon" becuase it has a dragon with water in it.


Those are quotes from the GW2 Wiki entry on the Movement, so correct me if the articles been summarized (by one of you ) and I'm missing someone. However, based on that, we have the following Dragons;

• Primordious - Who is gathering his power underground and does not go anywhere that we know of, south, north, east, or west,.
• Orrian Dragon (Malchor?) - Who rises Orr and rules there, creates an undead navy, and separates us from Cantha
• Deep Sea Dragon - Resides in the ocean, but affected the inland waters as well
• Dragon of Ice and Snow - Maybe Drakkar, maybe the the Dragon North of The Eye, drove the Norn south.
• Desert Dragon -Holds Palawa in check, keeps the Charr from expanding south, and flew south from the Northern mountains (it doesn't say this directly but I infer that since the one dragon awoke in the mountains and left the contrail of evil behind it to fly south over Ascalon, it would have ended up settling in the Crystal desert)

And we have visible:

• Primordious - during the A Time for Heros quest below the Central Transfer Chamber - Check!
• Drakkar - Beneath Drakkar lake, possibly the Dragon of Ice and Snow
• Grothmar - The very big guy in Grothmar Wardowns.
• The Ice Serpent - Ice Cliff Chasms north of The Eye - seems too minor to be one of the dragons, but still - also possibly the Dragon of Ice and Snow
• The Canthan Light Hous... sorry, couldn't resist Konig.

That being the case, it seems like we're missing any sort of mention as to what role Grothmar plays. He's not in the Northern mountains, and it seems like there's doubt as to whether he could even fly, making it highly questionable as to whether he could be the Desert dragon. And he's not the water dragon, because (unless I'm missing a reference to another dragon) the only "Water Dragon" (a name that comes from filename in the above link concept art) is the deep sea dragon. So... who is Grothmar? :/

I don't. Really, the main reason, is that I'd have to undo the painting I had already done, and more or less, it just would've taken a bit more time.

I had thought of that, with Drakkar, but I was going mostly off the information we have. As such, there's nothing to say it expands its domain northward. As to the Maguuman Centaurs, I don't think they'd even fit on the map anymore, as they were pushed west during the flooding caused by Malchor's rise.

Now that, I can honestly say I had forgotten, as the Zaishen aren't really a major group. Although, are you certain it says the Zaishen, and not simply priests of Balthazar? I was probably just thinking they were destroyed after the Battle Isles flooded.

That is the piece of work, and while you're probably right that it was named due to it being in water, it must be remembered that the similarities are striking. Not only that, but it is concept artwork, which means that it's simply that, the concept, and it would of course need to be altered before being put into the game.

If I showed you the concept art of Drakkar, you wouldn't think it was the same thing either. Things change as they are placed in the game, either due to limitations of the game's engine or deadlines to meet.

It's mostly been accepted that Grothmar is the one that flies south over Ascalon, as it's the only thing that really fits the description of a dragon. Neo is the only one doubting whether or not Grothmar could fly, really. Besides, after having played Shadow of the Colossus, I believe anything can fly, regardless of size.

Also, for the sake of clarity, we should have stopped calling Grothmar the water dragon months ago. As Grothmar was the name given to it for shorthand, after the area where you can first see it. Plus, it's easier to type than Dalada or Sacnoth. As to Drakkar, I'm pretty bloody sure that's meant to be the dragon of ice and snow, as Linsey mentioned there were plans for it, there's concept artwork that depicts it as being more dragonlike in nature, and the area's name can be translated to dragon. Need we anymore evidence for the time being?

Aside from that..We can't call whatever dragon it is Grothmar if Grothmar isn't Grothmar, as we only gave it that name due to the area.

Oh definately, I think that's the point I was trying to make. Although it definitively shows the Grothmar Wardowns Dragon, I have no quarral with that, the filename doesn't prove that it is a new Water Dragon. I think mostly I was just arguing against the idea of it being the water dragon becuase there was no mention of a water dragon seperate from the Deep Sea Dragon in the movement. And, also, becuase I thought that basing such a major peice of lore supposition off of a filename was a bit questionable.


I can buy that. I agree and think it's possible that anything, any size could fly in a game like Guild Wars. I think the only question I have is that it's not in the "Northern Mountains". However that could be attributable to infering the wrong thing from the movement, or simply the plan changing from one month to another at Arenanet.

As for Drakkar, there wasn't really much question in my mind either. I was just trying to summarize what the Movement article said versus a year or two worth of ideas.

Could the bone dragon under the bridge in the catacombs perhaps be what corrupts ascalon?

I had a thought as I was responding to your other post, that for some reason I didn't post, and it was that Grothmar itself might have been viewed as a small mountain range of sorts.

Nope, most take that as being another Giganticus Lupicus skeleton.

I had totally forgotten about that thing!

Though Giganticus Lupicus would make sense I suppose.

Lots of big posts since I fell asleep...

Why would the dragon of Ice and Snow go to a Desert?

I have to agree with you, O14, we only use the name "water dragon" due to the concept art, and it seems to me that the Water Dragon could have been intended for coastline (or orrian edge - those could be Corsair ships) or an island in the Unending Ocean. Thus the name could be out of date - so to speak. Even though it is still an island.

I suggest we drop the "water dragon" name completely and just settle with "Grothmar."

Funny O14. Anyways, the Ice Pillar creature cannot be the Dragon of Ice and Snow, why? As I pointed out, it is south of the Norn settlements, and would push the Norn north when the Movement says they are pushed south.

Grothmar could still be able to fly, we do not see his whole body, just his back (if that is even is back! For all we know, it could be the top of his head, or his tale, or belly, or something), so I don't think we should count him out as being unable to fly yet.

It does say priests of Balthazar, but the priests are part of the Zaishen, are they not?

Or it could be that the Charr Homelands is on the other side of Mountains (kind of does look like some mountains south of Grothmar, in my opinion) and that to the human settlement, it is not in, but past the Northern Mountains. Or it could be a misplacement/bad wording/bad communication between Anet staff. Or it could be that they intend to move Grothmar north for GW2.
How can bones be a living dragon? There is only one undead dragon, which is in Orr. Those bones, and all others found, are Giganticus Lupicus.

Also, the Ancient Dragons were made after the creation and release of Nightfall.

Konig, I'm not saying that Drakkar flies down to the desert, but that another Dragon hidden in the mountains farther North flies down to the desert.

Either way, everyone's adding too many dragons.

I think it's rather cramped enough with 5/6 large and powerful beings in the same continent. Do we really need to end up having 7 or 8? Shesh....

Think about it, if there was a dragon north of Grothmar, and it flew over Grothmar, I'm sure that there would be a battle between them.

Let us stop trying to make new dragons, and work with what we know we have, which is Primodus, Drakkar/Dragon of Snow and Ice, Grothmar/Northern Mountain Dragon, Malchor/Undead Dragon, and the Deep Sea Dragon. Possibly the Desert Dragon being a sixth one.

*coughmoreorlesssaidthatcough*

I'd have to look at the Movement, but assuming that, simply because they are priests of Balthazar, they belong to the Zaishen, is just as bad as assuming the Shaman are all casters. Yes, those priests of Balthazar were the remnants of the Zaishen that reunited in Lion's Arch after the flooding of the Battle Isles.

Why can't Grothmar BE the mountains that the dragon in question erupts from? Somewhere here, someone, I want to say Draxynnic, suggested something like what we see in Grothmar Wardowns being something of a cocoon or something. Not sure..I'll have to see if I can find it.

I typed that out before I read your response.

It's not that bad, to be honest. But, if I remember correctly, the Priests of Balthazar were a part of the Zaishen. Though, I could be wrong.

Im not saying 7 or 8, but 5 dragons.
Primordus
Drakkar
Grothmar
Far north dragon
Malchor

I doubt that Grothmar would fight with the north dragon, as Grothmar is still sleeping.

You forgot the Deep Sea Dragon. And you were claiming at points that the Ice Pillar creature was a dragon of it's own. Thus, 7. And at a point you claimed for there to be a dragon above Drakkar. Which would make 8.

the dragon above drakkar is the far north dragon, i am not viewing the ice cliffs serpent as a dragon, and i did miss the deep sea dragon, so 6.

I'll make a new map of what I think is going on tommorow, now that i've worked out a few kinks.

Yeah, koing has it, we're making too many dragons. All I have agreed on is Grothmar, Drakkar, Primodrious, and Malchor. Those are the only confirmed ones. As far as I'm concerned there are 4 atm. There needs to be one more (sure the desert one, why not) so that there is 1 per playable race. That is how I see it will be.

Asura: Primordious (underground)
Charr: Grothmar (Ascalon and area)
Humans: Malchor (Orr*)
Norn: Drakkar (Shiverpeaks)
Sylvari: Desert/unknown (That's the only one left so I cannot think of another one)

*edit-whoops