Quality of Guild Wars.

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a
aapo
Wilds Pathfinder
#1
Let's just start by defining what 'quality' means here. I think the the word "effort" makes a pretty good mental image of what it means to make a quality work. You see it on small things. So small it almost feels subconscious. Color codes in item names, different modifications in items, different ways to get a task done. When you're holding a big hammer it "feels" like you're holding a big hammer.

Let's take an first-person shooter (FPS) game for example. Poor quality FPS makes no distinction of hit location. Either you hit or you don't. This causes vicious circle that leads to character having exactly one death animation, exactly one way to get damage, which depends on weapon damage. That's a sign of poor quality. I'd also like to make it clear that I'm not talking about quantity, ie. the number of different weapons and maps. The two concepts are easily mixed and it's not always clear if different character models for instance really add to quality or quantity sector of the game. Quality is small incremental additions on top of "meat" of the game. Some developers may think that bothering with small things - adding couple of extra animations and variations is inconsequential, but it has huge subconscious effect on players' minds.

Staying on the FPS example, good quality game takes care of the small things. There is distinction in hit location and the game code also places semantic importance of certain locations on body. For example getting hit on leg might reduce movement speed and result in tilt on camera balance, whereas getting hit on hand might result to unability to use weapon for a short moment. First part of making quality is thus making distinction.

Let's start with Guild Wars' quality. The game is very adjusted to PvP balance, namely nothing is behind long hours of work and all item modifications are close in balance. However, this seems more like necessity for a good PvP game (analogy of players having accessible weapons in FPS game). The actual quality of the game is rather poor. You have hundreds of skills (quantity) with a single purpose they can be used (quality). A Monk might cast Protective Spirit, but it's just the similar Protective Spirit as the one cast by Necromancer. There's short animation, but after that it ends up as white circulating cloud to signify that the character is enchanted with something. There are 19 different ways to do damage with a sword, but the method is always skillname - cost - recharge - damage - additional modifiers.

So why am I claiming that large number of skills is not quality? Let me express this clearly: what makes skills quantity is the fact that while you may have 200 of them to choose from, you can only choose 8 and when you pick 8 whatever skills the only thing that counts and contributes to interesting game experience is the quality of those skills. The skills (and areas) are competing with each other, so adding more will not improve the quality of the game. Nearly every skill's purpose is to do one of two things: red bars up or red bars down. The only purpose of the game is to get enemy red bars down so whichever skill does it the fastest is the winner.

There's myriad of other examples of poor quality:
- Characters move at same speed, have same dialogue and other modifiers
- Many areas of the game have monsters with same 3d-model.
- Quest structure is "go there, get/kill this, come back" always.
- There is little interraction with other players, emotes should be more usable.
- Only thing to do in general is to kill monsters or other players.
- PvP necessities extend to spoil the entire PvE portion of the game. I'm not talking about balance, but skills catered for PvE should do things that make sense in PvE world. They don't, because of the promise that everything doable in PvE should be doable in PvP and vice versa.

This all results to what we see here on Guild Wars Guru forums all day. Whining because there's little to do and what there is to do is not fun. I certainly hope that instead of getting new games and expansions with thirty new recursively similar areas we would get actual innovations in gameplay and enchantments that stack on top of existing game. It's much more than just changing variable values here and there on the code.
dunky_g
dunky_g
Desert Nomad
#2
urm ok...

.. play a different game?

or

make one urself.
M
Malice Black
Site Legend
#3
You get what you pay for.

To put it bluntly, this sums up GW.
FlamingMetroid
FlamingMetroid
Jungle Guide
#4
Quote:
Originally Posted by aapo
stuff
ya pretty much, Its a free-to-play game, its not going to have every feature of every MMO ever created.
I still find it fun though,
If you don't, then don't play it.
L
Lawrence Chang
Wilds Pathfinder
#5
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
ya pretty much, Its a free-to-play game, its not going to have every feature of every MMO ever created.
I still find it fun though,
If you don't, then don't play it.
Yea,, and obviously if Anet charged monthly for GW, nobody would play it.
M
Malice Black
Site Legend
#6
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
ya pretty much, Its a free-to-play game, its not going to have every feature of every MMO ever created.
I still find it fun though,
If you don't, then don't play it.
I've been trying to make this point for years, with little success.

True MMO's have world PvP, which makes the game a whole lot more interesting. The AoC PvP players laugh at GW arena PvP.

GW done good for what it is, but as one of the devs said "it's a stepping stone into other MMO's" (prob not quite 100% quote, but you get the point)
T
Thizzle
Banned
#7
I understand exactly what your saying. I'm glad you took the time to sum it all up and even include examples. To make a skill animation for every single skill and change it per class would take more effort, but it's not impossible. Guild Wars is not the only MMO that does this. The idea of "Go here and kill x <monster>" has been the same way it has been for a long time. That's why I like the quick leveling because the more levels, the more you notice the repetitiveness of the game. I think Guild Wars is also the first of it's kind to have the kind of game structure it does. You only pay whatever the price of a cd-key is once and that's it, which I totally support.
GaaaaaH
GaaaaaH
Krytan Explorer
#8
i thought the stepping stone quaote was from that bad article?
Vinraith
Vinraith
Desert Nomad
#9
GW's an action RPG, and in that it succeeds marvelously. If you want an MMO, go play one. Some of us are very happy that this isn't one.
distilledwill
distilledwill
Forge Runner
#10
Not all skills are geared towards red bars go up, red bars go down. See Mesmers, Prot Monks, rangers, paragons and necros (to a certain extent) etc. Thats 5/10 of the creatable characters which are dedicated to preventing and reducing damage and shutting down enemies.
A
Aspen^
Pre-Searing Cadet
#11
Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
Not all skills are geared towards red bars go up, red bars go down. See Mesmers, Prot Monks, rangers, paragons and necros (to a certain extent) etc. Thats 5/10 of the creatable characters which are dedicated to preventing and reducing damage and shutting down enemies.
That is absolutely right, if the OP really thinks that all skills are solely devoted to making red bars go up or down, he obviously hasn't played guildwars for very long. Also, I really disagree with the main point of the OP, that guildwars is a 'low quality' game. Low quality? Seriously? How many people have played and enjoyed this game? Sure, it may not have 'fishing' and 'mining' or any other number of jobs like WoW, but tbh if that is what you are looking for in a video game you shouldnt be playing a f2p game in the first place.
Lyonette
Lyonette
Lion's Arch Merchant
#12
Why does it seem that people want every MMO to be like every other MMO?

GuildWars provides something that other MMO's [i'm using the word MMO for simplicity here] do not... A casual game, in which it's possible for everyone to gain want they want in a decent amount of time.

Every MMO doesn't need massive amounts of grind, little fishing professions etc.
Nevin
Nevin
Furnace Stoker
#13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunky_g
urm ok...

.. play a different game?

or

make one urself.
Ignore that guy's post, he has trouble reading anything longer then a sentence.

I for one agree with your post, lets just hope Anet adds the extra few man hours to make GW2 a truly unique experience.
ajc2123
ajc2123
Desert Nomad
#14
Nope, hes right, and this is just like every other game practically but free.

I only play it to calm myself down killing the same thing over and over again.

Presearing Does miracles for calming you down. PvP does wonders for pissing you off.
a
aapo
Wilds Pathfinder
#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspen^
Also, I really disagree with the main point of the OP, that guildwars is a 'low quality' game. Low quality? Seriously? How many people have played and enjoyed this game?
- How many people have seen Avril Lavigne's Girlfriend video on YouTube? 84 million dude. Must be about 70 times better than The Beatles' Penny Lane with only 1.2 million! Is this sound argument to you? Please don't bring numbers to discussion of quality...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspen^
Sure, it may not have 'fishing' and 'mining' or any other number of jobs like WoW, but tbh if that is what you are looking for in a video game you shouldnt be playing a f2p game in the first place.
- Fishing and mining is content, quantity in WoW. What significance and how well made those professions are is the quality I'm talking about.
J
JAK3US
Academy Page
#16
I agree with OP
I'm putting all of my hope into Guild Wars 2. A-net better not mess it up.
M
Malice Black
Site Legend
#17
With quality comes cost. You can't expect 5 star quality food at a bed n breakfast, the same principle applies here.

What you're after isn't going to happen. Anet doesn't charge a monthly fee, so their only revenue is selling the game, and the ingame store. After 3 years, the profit from game sells will have tailed off to very little, and the ingame offers very little once you have your mule slots, and PvP packs.

GW2 prob won't offer anything new in terms of gameplay either.
D
Dante the Warlord
Desert Nomad
#18
If you dislike this, then you will absolutely hate WoW. I believe its a great game tahts cheap and fun to play with. Yes it obviously died down to little more then a whimper, but still when prophecies first came out it was the best experience of my life (i couldn't even finish it in a few months!). Factions was a letdown, while Nightfall redeemed GW, but the damage was done from factions. With the modding of the items from GW so that high end powerful items are easy to obtain made the game easy to beat and quick to be forgotten.

Even though it does have its bad points, a good arguer would bring up what good points there are about the game. You obviously posted a bit for this game otherwise you wouldn't have that title "Krytan Explorer". Why would you play the game this long because it has those terrible qualities?
Chris616263
Chris616263
Frost Gate Guardian
#19
Quote:
Originally Posted by aapo
- Fishing and mining is content, quantity in WoW. What significance and how well made those professions are is the quality I'm talking about.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! "Well made". ALL time-wasters created by unimaginative bores at Blizzard. All of the little interactions in WoW don't really count as quality, just lack of imagination...

You left out the part where all of the zones in WoW are effectively pre-searing copies. Not to mention how WoW has the very same "Kill X monsters" "Collect X objects" quests. Too much emphasis on "quality content" like fishing and mining maybe?

So much emphasis on "quality content" like fishing and mining that the game is a boring grindfest to level 70, and then the only remaining points are raids/pvp?

Also, if you'd like to compare games like WoW to GW, why don't you compare the "private" WoW servers to GW. "Private" servers are free-to-play, just like GW. However, "private" servers on WoW are buggy and mostly unplayable.

Concerning FREE content, when you compare GW to the other free-to-play MMO games, GW is the king of the hill.
MasterSasori
MasterSasori
Desert Nomad
#20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord
Even though it does have its bad points, a good arguer would bring up what good points there are about the game. You obviously posted a bit for this game otherwise you wouldn't have that title "Krytan Explorer". Why would you play the game this long because it has those terrible qualities?
Because there are still redeeming qualities of GW. Besides there is GW2 to look forward. Will it be better? We won't know til we try it out.