Interesting article on MMOsite.com involving GW and Grind

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008...750298,1.shtml

An interesting read to say the least...

Too easy they QQ Noob
Too hard they QQ Grind

From the sounds of it, by his "definition" everything in every game is "grind" then. Doesn't make much sense. A few commenters summed it up better. One that stands out:

"When Guild Wars FORCES me, without CHOICE, to repeat the same action over and over (see level up games like WoW, Flyff, Knight, AoC, etc) without quests, missions, or furthering the story then I'll say Guild Wars is "grind"."

"The goal is items"? What? The one that wrote that obviously never played Guild Wars.

And we have unlock packs for PvP.

The only grind in GW is the grind titles. Nothing else, they aren't mentioned at all.

That article is a puny, bad, sad joke.

PvE Guild Wars is nothing but grind. Think about it, there is only one thing to do in PvE Guild Wars, KILL MOBS. That's it. There is nothing else. Crafting you say? All crafing is, is collecting a bunch of materials (by KILLING MOBS), and then handing them to a crafter, who hands you your item. Some of these crafters you can't even get to unless you, wait for it, KILL MOBS.

Titles? Same thing. Cartographer, you kill mobs, or run from mobs trying to kill you if you really want to get particular. Vanqush, that's whole point is killing mobs. Skill capper? Kill specific mobs. Missions? Kill mobs, to get to a point, which requires you to kill mobs.

Hell you can't even travel without killing mobs. Want to go do a dungeon? Well with a few exceptions, you gotta kill mobs to get to it, or run from mobs trying to kill you. Once you get to the dungeon, what do you do there? Kill mobs.

Want to go look at some of the scenery? Gotta kill mobs first. Open some chests? Gotta kill mobs to get there, or run from mobs trying to kill you.

I've mostly left GW behind and moved on to EVE, because EVE has things to do besides kill mobs.

Awesome. GW missions are mainly about killing enemies to complete them. So they're grind? Neat definition.

And of course we have tards jumping about claiming that grind is a part of rpgs and mmos. Jesus Christ.

With such a description of grinding, well, everything is grind. Most people wake up in the morning, eat their breakfast, shower if they don't do it in the evening, wash their teeth, go to work... Everyday.
OMG life haz grind!!1 nerf plz!!

And I believe this guy only played the 10-hours trial.
Really, "play for items"... WTF? Items are almost free, even in PvE! And don't get me started on PvP, there are unlock packs.
Any grind on this game (well, except for PvE skills that is) is for looks, or because people like it.

Did that guy even play Guild Wars?

I was under the impression that the items he was speaking of (competatively high level weapons and max armor) could be gotten through the game just by playing. The grind he was talking about, with people farming for ectos and griffons, is all optional as a way to make money. Not to buy max level items for PvP.

I'm one of those people that doesn't do titles becuase there is too much 'grind' in them. But, my lord, this guys definition of grinding seems to be simply playing the game.

Have you ever made a mission bonus?
Many of them can be done without a SINGLE enemy death.
The Wall? Run around an pick items.
Tihark orchard? In half of it you don't have to kill a single thing.
Gwen's Mission? You cannot kill at all!

Dragon's Throat challenge is all about killing stuff. Most GW is NOT. Killing stuff is something you make in the middle.

You cannot pretend the game to be just about walking around and talking to people. That would be absolutely boring, like those narrative roleplaying games.
When I want to read a book I read a book, when I want to play I play.

That guy has a rather odd definition of grind. Seems he dosen't enjoy player progression and RPG style character creation at all, he should probably stick with run and gun shooters where everyone's the same.

when fun story progressing play takes a back seat to repeating something over and over (read; doing the same quest, killing the same creatures in the same area) in the name of leveling up or character advancement THAT is grind.

Grind is not playing through story missions and quests and getting cool new skills for you character, all the while never repeating the same mission or area.

This guy's PvP example sounds weak at best, even if you make a roleplaying character and play them through all the secondary prof quests in pre-sear you're going to unlock a lot of skills, then try doing side quests once leaving pre-sear and you've got half the prophecies and core skills at your disposal for PvP. Idk sounds like he couldn't strap himself down and enjoy a fun story driven RP experience, instead he chose to see every plot advancing quest as grind for new skills and gear.

The vast majority of things in GW that require grinding are lame PvE titles that represent nothing but the amount of time spent playing the game. You can finish pretty much all 3 chapters + GWEN without having to grind at all, just follow the main quest.

If anything GW has less mandatory grinding than the rest of the MMOs on the market.

Now if you want to max out every meaningless Title ever invented, then yes there would be a lot of grinding involved. But that would really be your choice, and nobody is forcing you to do it.

If only there were some way for PvP characters to quickly and easily create max items, perhaps through some sort of "PvP equipment" tab!

Dude, I want that skill. It's like spectral agony combined with mind freeze combined with blackout, but without any of the drawbacks. That's pretty goddamn uber.

I'm going to have to agree. Everything would be considered grind in any game whether it's online or not by his definition.

But really, I think later on he tries to defend it but... I can't even figure out WHAT he's trying to say.

I have no idea what his last paragraph is trying to say. Every game has grind, and then... something about inevitable to get rid of it? Or is he saying that if you take it away it won't make the game entertaining? No idea.

If you go with that then guild wars PvP is grind to, all you do is kill a team of 8 or 4 instead of a mob.


but from his definition everything is grind including real life.

The Rl grind is something I can agree on. same shit different day. or back to the grind in terms of work.

maybe im just old school but there has been some element of a grind to just about every rpg ever made...not saying gw is purely grindage, mainly just pve titles...but as a gamer, you should kind of know what to expect before buying a game in a certain genre...dont like grinding?? put the game back on the rack and get a fps or something else. in gw especially the main grind titles seem like such a grind, is because they are. if they were easily attained then everyone would all be the same title and that really would kind of defeat the purpose..those dedicated enough to grind out a serious title are in it for the title itself and justly rewarded in the end.

Well from what appears to be his definition of grind, everything is grind, so if you remove grind, what are you left with...


!Selling awesome game with absolutely no grind, only £10.99!

My working definition of grind is any boring, repetitive task I have to do in order to have fun later. If you don't consider farming/trading/playing boring, it can't be grind.

This gets me to wonder what kind of oldschool guy finds grind in almost every rpg ever made ;d

Someone, please show me which skill this is. I want to make a team that just spams this supposed 500 damage skill that also 'freezes' people.

Haha oh wow.

Clearly he hasn't played guild wars much, if at all. So many things are simply wrong; J menu equals ftw? Furthermore, his definition of grind is so general that simply playing [through] a game must be grinding as long as it lacks accomplishments [and is repetitive]? What the hell is he talking about?