Game Update 4/1/08 (read that date carefully)

Yes. Ever see an Obsidian Flesh tank get aggro wrong? Skill isn't always in what skills you use, or when you use them. Sometimes skill is knowing the enemy you face, and how to deal with them. And interrupts can be used against an ooby tank, they need to know what will try to interrupt them, and how to counter that. I don't like obby tanks, but I see their uses, and I see skill from them when the person does it right. Ursan gives you 4 skills, and you can just spam them on recharge.

Lol, i was confused to why the 4th of january would be funny

Before GW:EN came out everyone was whining how they can't use their rit/assa/para/mesmer in Deep for example. People wanted a chance for every profession to evenly join a party and Anet gave that to you with ursan. You just have to raise your norn rank thats all. Now you want ursan out..i really can't get it..if you don't like it don't use it and play normal builds with guild party.

p.s. no i don't use ursan
as for balance..no offence but this is just pve

Look who fell for it.

Well I was joking obviously.

Or was I?

OP learn about suggestion forum, plx.

Yes, I play obby tank too in my warrior from time to time.

It also takes timing to play Ursan. Rush ahead and you're dead. Dont consider your energy and you lose the bear, and you'll stand up in the middle of the fight with no extra hp and armor. If you dont time right your ursan KD, it would be pointless. Ursan group fails too as much as the the balanced group. Bad aggro plays a part too.

Bad players, as well as inexperience ones, will always play bad whatever skills they have in the bar. I have been in both groups, and both have their share of bad players, sometimes Im part of the share. I think many others have seen that too.

You can have a good skill bar yet still play bad, like most farming build: its out there in the open but not everyone can do it. Or putting a tested pvp build everyone can get a template and still fall flat on your face.

Regen.

That would be a great update. Anet should make it happen asap. Will they? Pfft.

op·tion /ˈɒpʃən/
–noun
1. the power or right of choosing.
2. something that may be or is chosen; choice.

Hello kids! In this post we will be discussing the world "option" and its many implementations.

- Bryant here is thinking that group asking for people with Ursan Blessing won't take his fire nuker anymore? Why does he think so? Well, it certainly beats me. Say, if I didn't have the right skills to be in a party, I wouldn't be too surpised if the party didn't want me. Instead I could opt to make my own party with those that don't care about Ursan Blessing (which seems to be many). Bryant wants everyone to use fire nukers and limit people's right to choose what they want to run. Isn't that quite selfish?

- Bryant here is forgetting that Mesmers never had place in mainstream PUGs using wikibuilds and now they do. Ursan Blessing has clearly brought Mesmers to same line as fire nukers and Bryant tries to intimidate his opponents by saying Mesmer's place is to play with H/H and H/H only. Let's not be scared of his threatening, he's probably just sad his fire nuker isn't all the rage anymore.

- Bryant probably tries to imply that farming builds like dual-famine did require skill. Well, we experienced players know that his argument is rubbish and can be discarded.

There already is class and campaign discrimination happening before GW:EN. Ursan doesn't change a thing, maybe you're finally encountering discrimination for the first time because Ursan has made your preferred builds an after thought, but it's been ongoing since each campaign released. Groups ask you to ping build, you don't have Elite or regular skill from certain campaign they prefer you're booted from group. Most PvE and PvP groups aren't sympathetic, they all assume every player has all campaigns and all skills from each unlocked. Don't have "Light of Deliverance", because you don't own campaign that provides skill - tough luck. This is the normal thinking of GW players. Of course there are exceptions, but many people have a certain group build they're going after and there are no work around in their mind. Maybe you and I are flexible when forming groups, but everyone is different.

Even as a nuker or Mesmer people can join Ursan groups easily. Meet Nourn rank requirement group is asking for, roll as a Warrior (preferred) secondary, carry a melee weapon and a shield for extra armor. Now your a partial tank, with Ursan Blessing you have gain + .. armor and + ... HP. Any profession/class can Ursan. Most Ursan groups I've seen don't discriminate against class only Rank level. It's a skill with it's own skills so usually really doesn't matter what skills anyone is carrying next to Ursan, excluding res sig.

People with professions/class who had a hard time previously, now get into groups faster, pending they spent the time to grind Nourn ranks preferred (7+). A form of PvE eliteism, but with more people participating in the fad.

Something I pointed at vaguely in my post. A while ago, after it's initial discovery of use, a good point made by pro-UBers was that they were not seeing all these Ursanway groups - and they were right. The Anti-UBers were saying that this is all you'd see, but they weren't there. Fast forward to the now and that's most if not all of what you'll see: Ursanway LFM.

They herd to DoA because it has the chance to be the most beneficial of all the elite areas: Hero armors, gems, armbraces, and a green? DoA plz.

I'd agree with you if titles held integrity from the beginning. Not to mention my point is not about farming or being elitist at all.

JakeSteel: Read my post that you quoted. I have no problem with people playing how they'd like to as long as they know what's up.

Final thought in this post (nevermind, it's getting bigger than I thought):

That's the worst mindset I've seen for this. "It's just gonna be dead in a few years, so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it."

That's actually my point. A favored argument by the pro-UBers is that "any profession can use it." While that's true, it only applies to people who own GW:EN. It has the potential to be worse than class discrimination because it applies to all professions: If you were rejected as a Mesmer you could roll a Monk. If you were rejected because you didn't have UB, even if you were a "favored class of the trinity", then...pay $30 for GW:EN.

So to say "UB helps discrimination" isn't terribly accurate since it introduces a whole other level of discrimination.

Same reason why the "Trinity" wouldn't take Mesmers: it's not what they need. This kind of implies that Mesmers are the wrong class based on the rest of which you wrote, but I won't bring up the strawman on this one.

Already commented on this above with 2Broke. The rest of your post I can't really comment on since you're putting too many words in my mouth.

And I appreciate your ideal of "option", but part of my argument is that people will see UB as the only option.

In a matter of 3 hours this has degenerated into just another Ursan argument thread. Do we really need another one?

Time to bring in the lolcatz

Yeah I don't understand why we still type dates as numerals on the very global internet where 4.1.08 can mean January 4, 2008 to many or April 1, 2008 to others, so I wasn't sure what the OP meant when (s)he typed "read that date carefully" because I didn't know where (s)he is from.

You go first. http://icanhascheezburger.com/

Images have to be 800 x 600 or less, btw.

And "do I own GW:EN?" What kind of comment is that?

Guys, what number Ursan thread is this one? I think I lost count.

I'm not going to reflect my opinion on this matter anymore. I guess I'm just too rich and too old for this. I got to admit though, if any of my PuG's had this kind of persistence, I don't think any of us would really need to use Ursan.

And out of curiousity, Bryant, do you own Guild Wars: Eye of the North?

Actually, there is a far worst mind set: thinking that nerfing Ursan to uselessness will do away with the problems of GW.
Bad players and bad playing won't go away, sucky skills still exist, class discrimination will continue, etc

One solution is, giving "underused" skill a makeover, so as to give players incentive to use "alternative" bar skills.
The more variety of "usable skill", the better. It will help a bit in doing away with "Ursan" and other "builds" that cause the perceived problems.

If people are on the crusade, and passionate about it, raise hell for ANET to make other skills "useable".

Maybe while we would be playing GW2 in the future, we would give GW1 a drop to see and play from time to time.
Sometimes I play Warcraft I and Warcraft II to reminisce. Hell, I play pacman and snake when my ISP is screwy.



quickmonty:

It's weekend and I have too much energy, i feel like a necro with energy storage as primary attribute as well.
BTW, its not an argument, but a "discussion". Like song and dance.

But I agree with the cats.

Those who wish death upon Ursan Blessing are haters/losers. Go buy EotN, earn your Ursan and go farm with PUGs/Guildies & /ragequit on the hating. I don't even have Ursan Blessing yet (and I have 10 PvE toons who beat all 3 campaigns) and yet I don't try raining on their parades just because I don't have Ursan. It's an awesome skill that grants players fun times while farming, and yet ya'll want to shoot yourselves in the foot, whine to anet and have them nerf Ursan to oblivion so that others ya'll hate can suffer by being force-fed your level of gameplay (which is very low if you hate on Ursan)?

Sorry, but /notsigned...
Stop hating/QQing and go buy EotN, acquire Ursan and go PUG!

Doesn't take much skill to spam fire magic skills, SS, heal, protect, barrage, etc. The skills you have slotted are your skill, intellect is something else. The several times I have tried Ursan and was accepted into a group with my low Nourn rank 5 character it still was like any other PvE group. Can't over aggro, can't over extend monks heal range, etc. I was shock to see P, Me, Rt, and A classes accepted into those groups I was in. From my point of view there's not much to complain about a non-exclusive elite universal PvE skill that allows anyone to join in the fun. Don't want to and can't join Ursan group, form your own mixed Ursan or balance party. It's a game and everyone should be allowed to have fun and enjoy GW to it's fullest. Everyone should be able to get in a party to explore and quest in all elite zones after completing campaigns that were previously exclusive to certain classes/profession.

I never wanted Ursan to be nerfed to "uselessness" (it's mostly been in jest : P) but just to have it be on par with other builds. UB shouldn't be so awesome to warrant every party slot save for the monks.

I also think it's less the amount of useless skills (which I do agree, making more variety is always fun) but more of its overall convenience: You don't need to set up any skills, you don't have to worry about attributes, and you don't really have to synergize with any other builds (because frankly it's just that tough.)

I do agree about making a lot of other skills useful, though. Would it help in the case of UB? Only if they buffed to be as tough, which wouldn't be a terribly great move.

Excuse me if i'm wrong but since UB was introduced and as H/h can't use it the number of people PUG'ing has increased which is what people have wanted in the idea section for ages