[PvE Debate] Sup Runs vs Health

Quote: Originally Posted by holymasamune Then I suggest you learn how to prot too. That way it doesn't matter if you have 14 or 16, but you gain the advantage of not being the first target the monsters munch on. And given that 99.9%+ of GW monks don't know how to prot, chances are you don't either... Oh goodie, more generalisations. Basically, what everyone seems to be saying is a player who actually knows how to protect, only has 14 in Protection Prayers. Anyone else is shunned, correct? In fact, please don't bother answering, because I know what you'll say

And ok, so I've not played any high-end PvP....which means I automatically suck at being a monk. Since PvE is just so Goddamn easy, it hardly matters though, does it? I don't find myself being targetted by monsters, in normal mode - which is all my monk does, and my team (albeit heroes and hench, which has been well established as being superior on all counts...except Mhenlo) doesn't partywipe when I'm in control of the monk skills.

Perhaps I'll try with a minor rune on a headpiece, as clearly it's not like I can monk any worse than I am doing now, and since it's my monk's turn to play through Eye of the North, it seems like a suitable time to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign With such stellar reasoning driving your decision making it would be impossible for you to be bad. I corrected the spelling for you. I had considered giving you the response you clearly wanted to that post, although that would probably have gotten me banned. Based on that, I dediced not to, as a responsible little forum poster should. After all, we wouldn't want to this to turn into another "Glyph of Sacrifice + Res Chant" debate now would we?

In hard mode I would say, as much health as possible, these monsters spike squishies like the best of them, but a lot can be solved by kiting/positioning and w/e more.

Quote: Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Quote: Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver I corrected the spelling for you. You misspelled unpossible.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver I had considered giving you the response you clearly wanted to that post, although that would probably have gotten me banned. Based on that, I dediced not to, as a responsible little forum poster should. After all, we wouldn't want to this to turn into another "Glyph of Sacrifice + Res Chant" debate now would we?

It never amazes me to see the flamefest start for the varied preferences of players anymore. The sup rune was the staple for any build a year or so ago, until ANet stopped scalp/helm swapping in PvP. So, now that PvP guys can't change up during a fight, everyone has to be like you and follow the rats through the maze or you're stupid?

Spare me such nonsense! The argument of the extra 75hp is valid, yet in PvE, it's optional since positioning and playing skill rule the day. The AI has gotten a bit smarter, but people haven't become stupid if they were good from the start. Learn to think a little more, and not be a follower. If you have a sup rune setup, and die alot, then change to fit your needs. A major can do just as well as a sup in most cases and not take a 75hp hit. Hell, if you really want to be audacious then use 2 majors and spread the attribute points for more versatility while taking the same sup rune like hp hit. In the end, you're playing YOUR game. The intolerance of people will never cease to amaze me.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist It never amazes me to see the flamefest start for the varied preferences of players anymore. The sup rune was the staple for any build a year or so ago, until ANet stopped scalp/helm swapping in PvP. So, now that PvP guys can't change up during a fight, everyone has to be like you and follow the rats through the maze or you're stupid?

Spare me such nonsense! The argument of the extra 75hp is valid, yet in PvE, it's optional since positioning and playing skill rule the day. The AI has gotten a bit smarter, but people haven't become stupid if they were good from the start. Learn to think a little more, and not be a follower. If you have a sup rune setup, and die alot, then change to fit your needs. A major can do just as well as a sup in most cases and not take a 75hp hit. Hell, if you really want to be audacious then use 2 majors and spread the attribute points for more versatility while taking the same sup rune like hp hit. In the end, you're playing YOUR game. The intolerance of people will never cease to amaze me. Good point, because I think both Ensign and Beaver are far from bad. Personal preference matters a lot, My own builds tend to be pretty unorthodox at times too, but if it gets the job done smoothly there is no problem. People will sure as hell laugh when they see my prepared shot/tigers fury ranger heroes, yet still they PWN ^^.

There are very few cases when any rune except minor is needed, or even wanted, on a monk. They generally involve pure healing bars, which generally involve bad players.

If you're playing effectively, it's simply an extra penalty to your health with a negligible benefit.

What if people were wrong in the past? Ho and I don't even know if we can compare, since skills were updated, some new introduced, the context has changed.

Right now, 75hp is not worth the 2 attributes. Even 35 hp isn't. It maybe is to reach some break point, but the extra 1sec enchant or 5hp heal isn't going to save you. 35/75hp may give your monk more time to react.

Darkpower Alchemist, there is no need to be against everything the majority of player says.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist It never amazes me to see the flamefest start for the varied preferences of players anymore. The sup rune was the staple for any build a year or so ago, until ANet stopped scalp/helm swapping in PvP. So, now that PvP guys can't change up during a fight, everyone has to be like you and follow the rats through the maze or you're stupid? ...In PvP where DP isn't such a huge issue, like TA and HA, people still don't run sups because it makes you a ton harder to spike out. I want to be spiked out in PvE about as much as I want to be spiked out in PvP. Thus, more health is good.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist It never amazes me to see the flamefest start for the varied preferences of players anymore. The sup rune was the staple for any build a year or so ago, until ANet stopped scalp/helm swapping in PvP. So, now that PvP guys can't change up during a fight, everyone has to be like you and follow the rats through the maze or you're stupid?

Spare me such nonsense! The argument of the extra 75hp is valid, yet in PvE, it's optional since positioning and playing skill rule the day. The AI has gotten a bit smarter, but people haven't become stupid if they were good from the start. Learn to think a little more, and not be a follower. If you have a sup rune setup, and die alot, then change to fit your needs. A major can do just as well as a sup in most cases and not take a 75hp hit. Hell, if you really want to be audacious then use 2 majors and spread the attribute points for more versatility while taking the same sup rune like hp hit. In the end, you're playing YOUR game. The intolerance of people will never cease to amaze me. the addition of Hard Mode is what bothers me mainly. NM is easier now, yes, HM definately requires you to run that minor though, and if we are already talking PvE, we might as well pick some of the hardest, no? :P

and hey, if people play their own game, why are we even on this board? aren't we all influencing our OWN opinion into YOUR gameplay?

Quote: Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver ...I don't find myself being targetted by monsters, in normal mode - which is all my monk does... If you haven't even done HM on a monk, your comments should be given much less weight. It's like someone who only RA/FA joining in on a high-end GvG builds debate. Sure, they can give their own opinion, but their opinion is more likely to be less experienced or sometimes plain wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist It never amazes me to see the flamefest start for the varied preferences of players anymore. The sup rune was the staple for any build a year or so ago, until ANet stopped scalp/helm swapping in PvP. So, now that PvP guys can't change up during a fight, everyone has to be like you and follow the rats through the maze or you're stupid?

Spare me such nonsense! The argument of the extra 75hp is valid, yet in PvE, it's optional since positioning and playing skill rule the day. The AI has gotten a bit smarter, but people haven't become stupid if they were good from the start. Learn to think a little more, and not be a follower. If you have a sup rune setup, and die alot, then change to fit your needs. A major can do just as well as a sup in most cases and not take a 75hp hit. Hell, if you really want to be audacious then use 2 majors and spread the attribute points for more versatility while taking the same sup rune like hp hit. In the end, you're playing YOUR game. The intolerance of people will never cease to amaze me. Kinda like when everyone said your RE build was trash, but you keep arguing back and turning it to a flamefest?

I run a Sup Healing rune on Heal/Prot bars. If I'm full prot or *shudder* full heal, I use minors. Really doesn't make much of a difference. I run all survivor runes, and a sword + shield for +60 health, so even with the Sup rune, I'm never the party member with the least health. I'm rarely, if ever, targeted by the enemy.

The extra 10 health from LoD is nice with all the AoE attacks going around these days. Since I get attacked just as often with or without a Sup rune, makes sense to just use the Sup rune.

The extra-hitpoints when using only a minor rune not also allows you to live a second longer, but prevents that the monk dont get the aggro right in the beginning of a fight.
Monsters attack players with the lowest HP / AL first, so the monk wouldn't be one of the first targets.

ive always ran Sups on my headgear in PVE in PVE it is easier to hide from the AI where in PVP they hunt you dwn. I can see the advanatge of minor runes but each has their own style

hehe, it never ceases to amaze how people focus on the small statement I make, but never on the big picture of the argument in question.

The RE topic is dead, leave it so. The reasoning I put out was not accepted as being playable by you same set of forum trollers, so no need to revisit it. This is a new topic, and as such is the case, let's try to keep on that topic.

I never disagreed with the point of the 75hp loss as being not as needed. I just said it's a matter of opinion beyond PvP. In PvP, more Hp is more necessity than preference as for the already mentioned reasons. You guys really need a hug sometimes. Let the past go.

As for Holymasamune, idiots are destined to repeat the same mistakes. Take less personal shots and maybe you won't be one at some point. I believe in you...

Depends on the team build. With a human frontline that will take agro and keep it, a superior is nice for extra healing. Not necessary, nice. H/H, its nearly impossible to get that done, however. I know I'm going to be taking hits, so I run all minors to increase my HP.

In a good team, sup runes are not a handicap; they are a boon. I mean, if we weren't at least a little concerned with boosting our att points, why not just run all vitae runes and a sup vigor with survivors insignia If 600 HP is all we worry about, wouldn't 670 be even more ftw?

Monking is all about efficiency, and I like my healing to be efficient toward the damage received party wide. If I don't expect much damage, I run a sup headpiece and fewer self heals. If I do, I run minors.

Not that either is set in stone. PvE toons can still armorswap in instanced areas.

Be nice to each other

GGs

there's absolutely no debate: if you run anything other than minors, you're terrible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Please pardon my noobish-ness. From what I can see, the most highly rated PVE general monk builds on PVX wiki all include at least a major or superior rune, making it easy to assume that these builds are better.

Based on the majority of opinions found here however, I am going to try an all minor runes build. It should not hurt to add a new trick to the bag, right? Thanks for sharing your opinions.