Three cheers for Prophecies!

Well, I just finished off the last mission in GW:EN. I'm still working my way thought dungeons, with only about a third done there. However, I was a bit disappointed after finishing the story mode to see that there were still a number of armorers who wouldn't give me the time of day.

I remember back in the days of Prophecies when that was actually true. So, rather than go on a rant questioning why I should continue to grind to get the NPCs to like me after finishing off the main story, I'd instead like to just give a short bit of praise to the one that got it right. Prophecies boldly went out with a new paradigm of skill over time spent in MMOs against a field of competitors that made grinding the standard. So, I raise a glass to the first in the Guild Wars line. Hopefully someone will pick up this idea and run with it again in the future.

Horray for Prophecies

Although Proph was the longest game to level up etc, It didn't feel like it. It had the easiest learning curve and engaged me like only a few games have done before.

/cheer

This is what i have been saying since i finished factions. And certinally when NF came out, Heros IMO completly ruined the game.

Prophecies was long.
Factions was tedious.
Nightfall bored me.
GW:EN is soso.

Prophecies was good.
Factions was great.
Nightfall was incredibly boring.Especially all of the terrible landscapes.What was there?8 or 9 shades of brown,then yellow and black,and then purple and black?The only redeemin place in all of that Continent was Mehtani Key's.
GW:EN is terrible.I just finished it today.Some Great Destroyer.Last bosses are not supposed to be god damned push overs.And now what do I have to do for the next two years?Grind titles..hah.

/signed

Loved Prophecies, hate grinding just to get stinking armor!!!

That statement is still 100% true. You do not need to spend alot of time to get max items. 1k armor is as good as FoW armor. Greens are as good as high end weapons. Want to know the difference between 1k armor and FoW armor, green items and high end items? E-peen. You do not need e-peen to complete the game.

Your still being rewarded for grinding, however. "The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing," Of course, that's not the whole point of the quote. Still though.

But yeah hip hip fer-shizzle for Prophecies.

The reward does not affect the way you play the game in any way. That's why Guild Wars is such a great game. You do not have to grind countless hours for something good.

Well it's an RPG, so why should there be grind?

The grind is optional, so who cares? I'd understand if you were forced to grind, but you aren't. You have a choice. You can either play the game with normal armor and normal weapons, or you can choose to grind for armor and weapons that are no better then normal armor and weapons.

Not entirely accurate. There's also skills and consumables which do bring tangible benefit.

I don't mind the games. find half of the reasons people cite as to why they hate some of the newer games just stupid but hey thats my opinion. Prophecies was definitely the best tho. While some games had improved some things the games themselves weren't better than the original. Title grinds are pretty bad tho. But i mean at some point there has to be a grind somewhere. how else are you going to keep players in the game. The grinds aren't horribly bad most of the time. I would prefer something different tho. Like the titles working the same way, but points only being acquired from quests so its still not too easy and too fast but doesn't feel like a grindfest. As i said tho it can't be totally avoided if you don't want people to just give up on your game after a few hours of gameplay.

Also best point about these title grinds: you do not have to do them. you can live without the things they offer. you want the armor tho you gotta work for it.

NF spent way too long doing quests in the same area (starting a character there), so it got boring pretty quickly. I guess that it's nice for new players, so that they have less to worry about. Factions was just ridiculous with how quickly you can level, heh. They were both pretty interesting, though, with new ideas.

I've already forgotten the timeline, but Prophecies probably got more time in the planning stages, so it worked out better in terms of areas to explore. It does take a while to level, but it's never seemed that bad. All of my core profession characters have started there . And though you say skill over time, there were plenty who had issues with basic gameplay in Hell's Precipice >_>. Maybe they got run there.

This is really the only grind that benefits a character. You do not need to grind for the consumables, seeing as you easily get r3 in any reputation by playing the storyline. The bonuses/skills though, you do have to grind for if you want them to be uber strong, but even at the lower ranks they're good. But again, this is still optional grind.

There's no way to say this without sounding like a whiner, but why do you still play if you're so unimpressed? I think you like it more than you're letting on because you still log on and remain active in the community.

On topic:

I think the titles are grindy and might be reasonable if they were account-based rather than character-based. Doing the storyline alone isn't enough to attain the points for armourers to speak with you so an element of repetitive behaviour [grind] is necessary for these aspects of the game. I'm interested in the Asura Title Track because the skills are cool but to get the most out of them i have to farm thousands of points. Points require time moreso than skill.

I suppose when any game gives significance to 'numbers' (in this case titles) there will be grind. One of the reasons Prophecies had staying-power for me is because there were no numbers to achieve, maintain and to compete with other people. There's fame and XP but fame is PvP, which I personally don't do, and XP which goes unnoticed once you reach 142,000 unless you want to brag in the XP screenshot thread.

I'm not angry about the decisions ANet made with titles but I've just lost a little respect for them since they've went and stomped on one of their fundamental principles.

Yes, but that's the main complaint.

In original GW, the optional things really were optional. Maxed collector axe was as good as HoH drop.

With introduction of titles, salvaging and lockpicks became grind based (and a horrible grind at that).

Later, an increasing number of things became title dependant.

Now... You don't need tier 4 (or whatever) armor to play WoW, do you? You don't even need max level, the murlocks at level 5 are fun to kill. And if you kill seven million of them, you might even get Sword of Thousand truths.

Yes, GW is the least grindish of the current RPG market. But the grind is there, and everpresent. And that is a 180 from original design. Originally, changes were made to lessen it (skill prices capped at 1k, and a few more).

QFE. That would be in the spirit of original design.

To the people saying they stomped on the whole "no grinding" thing i think you are forgetting something. What they meant by it is you don't have to grind to be as good as others. Last i checked the max level is still 20 and still not hard to achieve. Grinding for the titles is completely optional and doesn't help you against anyone in PvP and only gives you some advantage in PvE.

That's a valid point and it's great that PvP is balanced without 'uber' weapons, skills or armours but what people strive for in the game differs. For those who are PvE oriented discrimination exists in titles such as the Lightbringer. People who don't have as much time are being rejected as inferior for not being LB7+. Higher titles do have benefits which take time more than skill.

The arguement of activities being 'optional' can apply to almost everything.