A re-occuring issue I find with trading! The main reason I cant stand it!

This isnt a thread being anti-Anet and suggesting we need a AH to sort out trading. Its a thread concerning the attitude of traders.

I've found during the few times I've ever managed to trade, that people ingame dont actually trade in the traditional sense.

Traditional trading to me involves this process....

1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value.
2) Someone takes interest and views the item.
3) They ask what price you want.
4) You ask for an inflated price..

[here is where it changes. Traditional trading would go like this]

5) The buyer barters the price down, and offers a lower price.
6) You barter back and ask for a bit more.
7) You eventually come to a settled price and everyones happy.

Now this isnt how it happens in GWs. In GWs it goes like this...

1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value.
2) Someone takes interest and views the item.
3) They ask what price you want.
4) You ask for an inflated price.

[here is where it changes. In reality it goes like this]

5) The person says "Ha noob, grow up, its not worth that"
or
5) The person says "I cant afford that"
6) Trade cancelled!

My point is why?
Is bartering a taboo?
Do people understand the concept of trade?

The issue with this, is that unless you know the exact price for an item, you wont sell anything. People just refuse to even take notice if you post an inflated price.

You're expected to know the exact price of the item your selling, or your a noob, your insulted or your called a scammer! But not everyone is a hardcore trader and knows prices inside and out.

Example of the attitude...

I had an experience in NightFall where I had no idea what the price of Trade Contracts were, because I had never bought them before. However I knew they are used for Rubis, so I was asking to buy them (for what I thought was a high price) of 100g each.

I soon noticed someone in that outpost was posting "Dont sell to Freekedoutfish hes a scammer, TC are worth 700g".

I was like "what are you on?", I'm not scamming. I didnt realise!

We then ended up in a "conversation" for about an hour in that outpost talking about scamming and prices. The point I was trying to make, was that its not a scam to ask to buy an item for less then its worth. The reason being that aslong as both parties are happy with the price, its not a scam.

A scam is where you offer someone an item, and then sell them something else which isnt worth that price.

But my point here is that people are expected to know prices inside-and-out and not everyone does. But instead of saying "ill buy it for less" or "ill sell you it for more", you get "noob" or "cancelled".

Why is bartering never used?

I barter all the time when Im buying an item!

I've realised that the highest you can advertise an item for, and get interest is 15k. Any higher and no one listens. Even if you dont include a price when advertising and then ask for a slightly inflated cost, all you get is "cancelled".

The other isue is a complete lack of commmunication. Buyers wont give you a "no thank you" or "I cant afford that". They make you open trade, look at your item and then just walk off.

No pleasantry at all.

Example of trading....

I had a person advertise to buy a hammer in LA last night, and I wispered him to offer him the Bludgeoner. I asked what he could offer and he said 6k. I told him to come to storage and then he asked where I was. I said I was in LA - dis2 and waited.....

....then he finally wispers me and says he is in Ascalon city and told me to go there. So I go alll the way there, find him and open trade.

First off he opens trade and presses submit before I can even put my item in. That sends off alarm bells. As if he thinks im stupid enough to click accept and loose an item for free.

Then he puts an offer in and instead of the 6k, he offers a really crap axe. I say "you offered 6k in LA" and then he adds 2k to the table.

I posted "Mate, you offered me 6k and I came all the way here" and I get...

..."accept or goodbye". I told him to (in so many words) take a run and jump.

This is a small example of why trading is completely shot in GWs. Its the attitude of these people.

It made me laugh slightly because this warrior was lvl15, and im stood there with Guardian of Tyria. You would think he'd realise I have some experience and not to try it on.

Is it really too much to ask people to..

1) be polite.
2) barter.
3) communicate?

Maybe if trading was an enjoyable experience, because the other players were nice, then it would be so bad.

And dont make posts saying the trading is messed up because we need an AH. That has been said 100000 times and that entire thing has dried up now!

The part about bartering is...in real life, if you are trying to buy a used car or something from a random guy, chances are that the car is not really in that high of supply. If you don't make the deal, then you are probably going to be without a car.
If someone is trying to buy junk on GW, and you are offering to much, why bother? The guy next to you is selling it cheaper.

Edit: For the record, I'm not one of the 11 yr olds that do that crap. I don't trade at all, because I end up getting annoyed by people.

I actually agree. Bartering would be more useful than an immediate yes or no.

I barter, i give a friendly "lol" when we finally reach an agreement. Ive had my cases of "good luck noob" and I hate to say it but I do get offended by it. (thats why I like Ensign's little sig/comment)

I hear you, and it annoys the hell out of me when people just don't get the trading system. Too many people in this game have set ideas on how much something should cost and will not fluctuate whether they are buying or selling.

I make it my purpose in life to teach fools how to barter for goods...although you still get the really stubborn ones who refuse to learn.

One other sort of trader who annoys me is the "I only accept leet prices" seller. The sort of person who spams "WTS White Non Max Bladed Shield for really leet price. Whisper Offer. No response = no deal". Best thing to do is ignore them completely...when they find out they never sell anything with that sort of advertising they might stop one day.

The Auction Section of GWG is the best place I've found for selling things...even though it's bang-your-head-off-a-desk SLOW....at least it gets the job done.

This is a problem that will not find a resolution. It's best to accept it and adapt. In other words, when trading, only offer what you intend to pay, or give the price you intend to sell for. High-end items can still be bartered most of the time, but something worth anywhere from 1g-100k would be better off advertised at what you intend to sell it for.

I do wish it wasn't this way, it makes more sense for it to be as you describe, but here we are. When I trade, I'm always polite, even if the other person isn't, and I always converse with the person. That's something you can continue to do, screw what anyone else does. But the bartering is an issue it's best to adapt to. Otherwise it might seem rude to try and talk someone down from a price they have long "set in stone" and is fairly low-balled to begin with.

Example:

I had a +15/-1 inscription that is normally sold for 7k-15k, according to guru PC (and what I've seen others WTS at). I put up WTS for 5k, lower than the lowest, just to get it sold quicker. I have about 5, and within a few minutes I have people come up and offer me the 5k straight, fine. Then comes the bartering person, offering 3k. Now, why would I want to barter an already really low price? Of course I respond, "No, sorry, 5k each." Their offer seems rude to me, my dismissal seems rude to them.

You can't try to barter in a player-based trading system that isn't used to bartering. It can make everyone look bad, especially when both sides can't really know what's up with the other side. In my example above, chances are the person was an honest barterer, but to me it seemed like someone trying to get that item for as low as possible to just turn around and re-sell it for much higher. Not that there's anything terribly wrong with that, but it's also not a completely honest trade.

The problem we have is that we're dealing with a lot of younger people (Like, 13 years old and younger), who have no fricking idea what the hell "bartering" even remotely means. These kids don't realize that prices AREN'T SET IN STONE. They vary based on supply and demand, as well as the negotiated price in a barter.

You get a rough estimate of the price by what you might expect the price to be. But then, the rest is negotiation, which is bartering, plain and simple. I've had some very tough barters before -- some people are good at buying/selling. But I could feel satisfied with the price I was getting.

But what I see so often:
"How much?"
"13k"
"Hmm... I can't really afford that... how about 10k?"
"13k, take it or leave it."
"... I guess I'll leave it."

The main problem is people don't understand the idea of negotiation in a bartering situation.

I usually don't bother with barterers, unless they show they can be polite and typ without using chatspeak.
Since I often sell my items a bit lower than the prices in price checks I don't feel there's any need for bartering about my prices.=\

Yeah I agree, if i have anything worth a high price I just use an auction here. Selling in game is just pain in the bum.

I allways barter when I buy stuff in game. Depends on the item, but I usually offer 1-3K less then the seller wants to have on items. These are items that go up to 20k. And usually I get a discount to0 ^^. People mostly allways ask a to high price, and even if they are offering it at a low price, for a few k less they will still sell it ^^.
When I sell my items I rather sell them at a few K less, then not at all. But then again I mostly only sell on guru where I don't have to get bartered on.
I do hate it when people are trying to barter with you, after they b/o it on guru. Price on guru == Price in game to pay not less

I agree with that. I was talking more about perfect weapons or good mods, which you would expect to be atleast between 10-20k and worth barting over.

If its just a cheap item, then I dont mind just giving it away for 5-10k!

For instance I have a perfect dagger and bow (all perfect mods and low reqirement), which you would expect to sell well. I have advertised these for anything from 30k to 20k to 15k, and people either dont take interest, or they look at them and just walk off without a word.

I personally think their decent weapons and nice skins, so I cant understand it. I might be asking a bit more for them, but they are good. But people can still barter my price down if they dont have enough.

It just annoys me so much when people are like "ha, thats not worth that much, are you joking" and walk off. Does it hurt to say "I'll give you [enter value] instead"!?

I hear you. A week or so ago I decided to sell a few gems in DOA. I don't remember which (torment/margonite), but I advertised selling each 3k. Now excuse me for not visiting and watching trade in DOA within the last day, but apparantly the price was 2k and not 3k!! Wow, I got a lash of 3-4 people calling me NOOB! NOOB! they are worth 2k! I just had to laugh at how sheepish some people can be.

To me trading is the most annoying activity in-game. If I find something that is of high value, I always auction it. Low starting bid guarantees that I'll at least get if out of my hands, a higher buyout price gives someone possibility to get the item right away if he really wants it. Everything else I just sell to merchant or put in a stash until I or someone I know has use for it. I just hate WTS/WTB, many of the reasons for it were well said in the OP.

In my case, I don't barter because trading is already a deeply unpleasant and tedious experience for me, and I don't want to prolong it any longer than I have to.

When I sell, I advertise at a low price... that way I sell within moments, and can quickly get back to the enjoyable parts of GW. The time I save by doing this, is worth more to me than the extra gold I might have got (if I was prepared to spend forever getting a "good" price and/or bartering).

If people want to barter, I refuse - I'm already selling at knock-down prices, so I don't need to waste time bartering... another buyer will be along in a few seconds to snap up the bargain.

When I buy, I look for any reasonable "WTS" price, or offer a generous "WTB". No bartering, again to minimise time spent on trade.

Oh no you wasnt arguing with me in vabbi right >< I once stood there for 2 hours attacking scammers - But i mean real scammers, I wisp hem to make sure they know prices and blah blah blah

Ive gotta say i was seriousl shocked when te community turned agaisnt me for trying to stop these people cheating others

This guy is absoloutley right trading system is pretty messed up in this game. Not sure how to fix it though.

I've also experienced what you describe, which is why the only trading I do is via guru auctions or the guild trading forum. So I'm bookmarking this thread as just another reason we need a better trading system. Though most of the time I just make do with what I find / buy from traders.

I wish I could avoid trading, but i've reached a point where I have nothing else to do. Completed all 3 campaigns, got legendary cartographer, got all protectors and 2 guardians. I have all end game armors and the best weapon I can get for my character.

I've nothing else to do, expect stuff that cost gold = me spending hours trading and not enjoying it.

I'm needing around 100k total to get my next set of Vabbian armor, because I just feel like a change. But I cant shift half the stuff I have, despite some of it being decent.

I could probably make about 60-80k in just a few minutes if they sold at 15k each. But no one bites, or they winge Im asking too much or refuse to barter.

Or you get newbie players asking to buy decent gear for 4k.

I dont blame Anet, I blame the attitude of players not being able to trade politely and/or having this arrogant attitude where they think they know what an item should cost.

You either meet that amount or your a noob as far as their concerned. Who sets values? are they written in stone? An item is worth the value that someone is willing to pay - simple.

I wish I could avoid trading, because the only other alternative is to continue spending hours in outposts trying to find none-existant HM pugs, or put the game away until GW:EN comes out. But id rather not do either.

Spending 5 minutes haggling down someone 1K is a lot cheaper than waiting an hour to find someone who's offering it 2k cheaper.

*Winterclaw has had occasional luck, but not too much, finding people to haggle as a buyer and a seller.

Well, true, I can agree with you there.

Good story: I had a really nice sword, low req with great mods, and the skin was PC'd at 30-50k. Again, to sell it fast, I slap a pricetag of 15k on it. I had a really interested buyer check it out, including wanting me to "model" it out in a zone (they weren't "up to anything", they just wanted to see the skin on my char). They offered 10k, and I counter-offered 12k, and it was a deal.

I don't mind bartering items like that at all, as long as they are nice about it, like Milennin said. I don't like when people try to seriously undercut the already low price almost instantly. I also don't like when people assume they're going to get a mad discount because they're buying multiples. Like if your selling lockpicks for 1,250 each, and you have 10, instead of offering 12,500 for all ten, they'll slap 10-12k in the trade window.

Eh, there's just a lot of trade faux pas going on in this game, no doubt. I have noticed that sometimes people "fake trade" in order to get a PC on an item. By this, I mean they'll look for someone selling an item they may also have, or advertise WTB a certain item they have (like a green), and find out what people are actually selling these items for. That may be what's going on with the people who don't talk and just close the trade window and leave after you give them a price. Something to consider...