ARRRGH... (this is a rant, for those who dont like those things)

Yes discrimination is here, and it's a crappy thing...
I have an Elementalist, which belongs to the holy trinity category, and I am not proud of discrimination... I made an Assassin, which is certainly the most useless class in DoA (i really don't see any effective application for them, even a mesmer could do better job :s) is just not made for this type of "elite" zone : The true problem comes from the too many professions in GuildWars
Basically, the holy trinity can do any job quite easily, and the other professions are here to make some diversity in the meta game, but I have to say that my Sin is not really usefull for any group in PvE...
Elitism is another enormous problem : the DoA seems to follow the dark path of the HA, with ranks which is a bad thing : you can gain ranks with a noobish BoA sin in HA easily, it won't give you more experience
I think that most profession can play with fun, like a Ranger bonder, a restauration Elementalist, or anything fun, even a healer sin if it's fun : "elite" zones are just not made for this.
It is like there is 2 games in one : one fun, very fun, made of experiences, new builds, sometimes crappy, fun pve, fun pvp... and the other made of farmers, ultra rich players who have infinite time to sell stuff at ridiculous prices, elite in HA with their so-called bambis and wolvies, and a new elite PvE players : the dark side of GW.
And I'm affraid this will never change, it's the way it is, no revolution in the oligarchy, they rule, that's all

That's the problem with DoA as well as "hard" "high-end" pve areas due to ANet's wrong design.
They make area "harder" by making mobs have hax attribute point, high level armor, health, fast casting, plus environment effects but with a very simple or sucky skillbars. This will lead to, of course, gimmick build to beat it. And that's the reason why people only require those professions because it works for them.
About the elitism : requiring Lightbringer or higher title to be in group is just stupid but that's player-base who decides that, ANet can't do about that, really.

I don't mind the trinity being the build of choice, I have at least 1 character of every profession, some professions I even have 3 or 4 characters of each (yeah I know I'm sick, I need help, but that's not the point).

What I object to is Urgoz and DoA. How can an area that has too many enemies with ridiculously high amounts of health and who unload a tremendous damage in one hit be fun and/or interesting.

I'd much prefer an area that you need to finesse a bit to get through. That takes a bit of brain power to get through. Not just mindlessly spamming Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Liquid Flame, with the occasional MS thrown in for good measure.

We've always been told that these areas are NOT for everyone, that they are for elite players, blah, blah, blah. How does using a build you got off guild wiki make you "elite"? Can somebody answer me that question?

Oh and when they say these areas are NOT for everyone, could they simply mean that the elite areas are only meant for Ele's, Warriors, Monks, with a token Necro thrown in? That if you are a Paragon, Mesmer, Ritualist, Devrish, Ranger, or Assassin you are simply out of luck?

Here's hoping that the next "elite" area will have a cookie cutter build that includes some of the other professions.

Oh and finally, totally off topic, why did Anet introduce the Assassin, an upfront fighter type with 70 Armor in the same chapter they put in exploding corpses? *Sigh* No wonder nobody likes the Assassin.

Quote: Originally Posted by Amorfati87

Quote: Originally Posted by Qual

People discriminate because, if you don't know the proper build for going in there, you will die. Plain and simple. It's not a matter of "my dervish build is a great tank, why won't you let me in your group?"; if you're not running ridiculously powerful defense, you will die.

There are fast ways of going through DoA, and there are slow and painful ways. A PUG is not going to choose you if you don't fit into the fast method. Not their fault; that's the way the area is. If you want to play there as whatever you want...you need a guild.

Quote: Originally Posted by Caoimhe

I have just figured out that I am part of a guild/alliance that is a very rare. We go into places like DoA, just to have fun. Oh the first times through are quite a laugh...and YES we laugh. "Well THAT didn't work so well" as we all lay there dead.

Silly us for thinking that this game well any game is supposed to be fun and not full of the animosity that so many seem to bring to it.

I hope on nights that we are on that some of you happen into DoA, we would love to play along with other "useless" professions.

Side note...sorry but the DoA area was flawed from the beginning...not many real people with real lives can sit on one quest/mission for HOURS and HOURS on end.

Happy Hunting

Quote: Originally Posted by runeseeker1 Really, the place is starting to be like HA, with people demanding that you have Lightbringer 3+ (like fame) or being a certain profession. A Dervish, Paragon, Ranger, Mesmer, Ritualist or Assassin isn't seen for miles. Not True, Rangers can Set up the traps for snaring and do Some Major Sustainable damage with Barrage + Splinter Weapon. I think even more pressure then Ele's can. (If properly agro'd by tank offcourse ).

And if they don't want you just Solo trap, or Barrage Splinter the Stygian Veil (See my thread in the farming section ), of be a famine for the Monk + Ranger combo.

If you really want something, you'll find ways to get somewhere

Quote: Originally Posted by Caoimhe

Quote: and if you can beat atleast 1 area, with a member of each profession you ranted about, i'll mail you a $100 Dom/Interrupt mesmer. This char alone made foundry go so much easier. Support ranger. Paragons can tank or heal, though admittedly they are least suited for DoA. Dervishes can tank. Assassins *can* tank. Rits can be awesome spirit support and restoration magic, or a nuker. I have seen all of these classes, been in groups with them, and they work fine. But the generic DoA build works BETTER, so therefore people would rather use that. The best idea is just to get a decent PvE guild and play with them, that's what I did.

Quote: Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Quote: Originally Posted by wetsparks

I once joined a gloom group with an assassin tank, 2 monks and 5 mesmers (Assassin's promise + arcane echo + spiritual pain), and we managed to clear gloom pretty fast (~25 mins I guess)

There should be alot of builds without warrior and eles, it's just that everyone loves cookies...

People play the "holy trinity" because A) it works B) it is all that they are taught.

Cookie cutter mentality invades more corners of GW because builds that are proven to work efficient are most sought after. This is closely followed by people's need for instant gratification, and these efficient and fast builds provide that... Creativity is always sacrificed when it comes to human greed.

In hindsight, NO the "holy trinity" is NOT the most effective. I am part of a guild that has done DoA since day one, and continues to do it very often. One of our officers basically only does DoA and always refines builds. We often go as all guild or alliance groups only, because we know that most people can fill any roll needed, and we can often work in the "odd" build. We often roll with 3 monk, 3 ele, 2 necro build. Basic and still only 3 classes. But seems to be even more effective then other builds. Now OUR mindset is honestly more about time management. Sure we want our riches too, but we like to do all 4 area runs in order to get the largest reward. With the effort come the rewards, so whittling the run from 8 hours down to around 5-6 hours proves worth it.

In short, just dont pug. I know that is naive in a sense, since not all people have access to a very active guild/alliance or even a guild/alliance that is very knowledgable about DoA. However, put in the effort to find a guild that knows and often does DoA through your pugs. It will take effort and fustration, but in the end it will be so worth it.

Ya my whole 2 cents are kind of contradictory since i say that our guild has the same basic mentality, but in a more conducive and friendly atmosphere, will allow for leeway when it comes to different profession involvment...

IDK, in the end, don't bash on other people for buying into the cookie cutter mentality, its expected. Rather take the efforts yourself to find that good guild or group of friends that does it often and becomes knowledgable about the area enough to be able to experiement and run the builds you want.

Best of wishes to the OP in his efforts. I hope you can find a good active DoA guild....

cheers.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheDarkOneVK

Quote: Originally Posted by Chop it Off

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakumei

Quote: Originally Posted by thelegendozelda

DoA is a flawed design that exposed the imbalance between classes in pve. Don't like it when it is useless to interrupt simply because if you need to interrupt you are dead already.

Hour after hour of the same. Tank goes up to get aggro, monks try and keep him alive, nukers nuke, things go wrong, almost party wipe, rebirth, repeat. Not what I would call fun and repeatable.

Very telling that 85% of the people at DoA are looking for a farming group and the others are looking to kill Mallyx.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vilaptca