We require a giant, player-based push towards promoting a better community.

The Guild Wars in-game public community appears to be in bad shape, does it not? It most certainly does to me. Who's fault is it? The better question is: Who's fault isn't it? Not all of us deteriorate it, yet not all of us help to improve it. However, the number of those who actively attempt to help restore the life of the public are apparently too few, and this is why I am here, making this attempt towards improve it! Yet, I cannot do it alone.

What are the problems we are facing?

I am not going to pretend that I know the exact problems with the community, or if some are really problems. I merely have my own logic and morals to go by. However, as my prime example, I shall use something that really stands out as a glaring flaw. This is the obvious neglegance towards the Party Search Window. The poor new feature is absolutely ignored! Why? Are people not trading? Wait, no! People are still spamming in Local! Is nobody in the outpost there to do the mission? Wrong again! People are still spamming for parties in complete disarray! What in the world is wrong here? Let's look at another could-be problem...

Leavin' and leechin'. Poor, poor Random Arenas. Its image has been scarred with the belief that leaving is common, or maybe even acceptable! Is it? It shouldn't be. Now, here's the problem. While penalizing players for doing so would help to prevent this, it also harms those players that have honest reasons and exceptions. It is the actions of the community as a whole that affect what the community experiences. I respect ArenaNet for not prodding into flaws that are simply decisions of the community, and although I wish they would somehow manage to push a little sense into the players, would I honestly expect it to work? Let me ask this: Would I expect the common public to follow simple suggestions made by the proper authority figures? I don't see everyone driving under the speed limit -- Keyword: Limit. That's as fast as you should go. Does it happen? Pffffff! Even I am guilty of it.

So what is the true problem here? I'll be damned if I know for certain. We are faced with a myriad of difficulties and flaws. However, while we certainly cannot have a 100% fix of every problem imaginable, we can all take strong yet simple steps towards improving them altogether. I suggest that the true problem we face is a "Quality of life" problem. Keep a window broken, and another window breaks. More windows begin breaking, and then punks start breaking windows on purpose, yet unopposed, because it is seen as the norm, and it is believed that nobody will do anything about it. Who would want to live in that neighborhood? Well, people have to. The real problem is this "Broken Window theory" (Note: An actual theory used in criminology), where minor collective problems are not tended to, and then it slowly declines into the point where no small group of people could hope to replace all of the windows themselves -- They must begin promoting the replacement of these windows simply by doing what they can towards bettering the community, as well as spreading the word to those willing to listen. Eventually, people will start fixing their own situation to compliment the rest of the community, and those little miscreants that break windows on purpose will be actively shunned upon.


What can we do to improve this? Let me say this clearly: We must begin caring about our community. We would certainly not do it all at once, nor would we gain immediate results. Instead, each willing participant must start as soon as possible, and be consistant with it! We, the players, can actively help promote the productive alternatives and quality-of-life issues that benefit the community as a whole in hopes that it catches on. We can help to sway the accepted norms, little by little. Go ahead, use that Party Search function! Dead swords? End-game armor on a character I never use? Who needs 'em! You could even try using that Elite skill that does not look appealing. You may be surprised to find how practical it may be!


Oh, one last thing... (Snip! This paragraph removed because I'm an idiot)
Edit: I have removed and replaced a great deal of the nonsensial, confusing and irrelevant content in my original post. This change is active beginning at post #61. There shall be responses before that reply which are irrelevant to this discussion)

Doesn't seem to be in too bad of shape to me...

So what's the point of this thread?

Guild Wars has more than 1 million players. One or two...even twenty people being nice and kind can't change the overall atmosphere of the game.

It's the internet, and we are human. Just accept that people can be mean, ignore them, and move on.

Yeah and rules are rules...no need to follow them

Laws are just laws...no need to follow them either.

Don't say that the internet(games included) and real life aren't colliding, cuz they are. Just because you don't THINK that the person on the other side of that screen can harm you or get to you doesn't mean they can't. It also doesn't make it okay to be an ass. Ignoring it, is exactly why it is getting worse, especially in America.

EDIT: and you're wrong about a few not being able to help change the problem. Just last night AC AD1 went from being full of spamming rude "jerks" into a nice hour long conversation. Some of the jerks joined in and showed that there is hope for them the others did finally leave or at least shut up. Some people just don't know any better way to do things because all they see is the BS and the spamming. 3 brought over, that's 3 more to hopefully pass it on.

Stuff like this drives me crazy. I'm not a farmer, but just like real life, some people like to spend time accumulating wealth (farmers), where others like to be free spirits, and still others work their hand to the bone just for the love of work (grinders). Bottom line is people play the game the way they want to enjoy it, which is what makes guild wars appeal to so many people. Want to go after a title...go for it. Want to farm ecto...go for it. Want to PvP and come up with new builds...go for it.

You question what the problems of the community are. I'll admint that there can be jerks in the game and you bring up some valid pionts, but let's just say that having a narrow mind about how the game should be played isn't much better than some of the other things in your post. It's a game for crying out loud. How can you say that a farmer doesn't earn what he/she gets? They spent the time to do it didn't they.

Just because you don't like to farm, doesn't mean others should feel "guilty" for doing so. By your argument, technically anyone playing the game should not feel justified in how they are using their time since others may not think it is necessary either. Bottom line is the game is there for people to have fun, however they see fit that doesn't break the rules. Last time I checked there was nothing in the EULA against farming.

And the OP explains in the next sentence:

The OP has valid points and doesn't blow smoke up our collective holes saying that there is a magical fix.

The surest way to start improving things is by reducing a lot of the things that drive people up the wall to the point of avoiding any community involvement.

My community involvement is right here on these forums. When I get in game, I take my Heroes and Henchmen and never cross paths with another player.

Do I think this is ideal? No. But, it's what I do, it seems the least painful, more efficient way to play.

I don't know why my playstyle is like this in Guild Wars, it wasn't in WoW, DAoC, AC2, Horizons and the other games I played. I grouped a lot in those games, even though PuG's never were considered an elite ideal in any game, they were often fun. I'm sure they can be fun in Guild Wars, though for some reason I am not PuG'ing or grouping with other players, for that matter.

But, in Guild Wars, I have Heroes...and they rock.

The rest of the community...the trade thing. It's silly, people are buying overpriced vanity items and spending way too much time doing it in open chat. Trade spam along with the smack talk seems to be the only thing in general chat.

To turn this around people have to stop crapping in their own nests and ANet needs to help as well:

-Trade House functions

-Making player groups worthwhile again

-Releasing the next chapter without diluting the community once again

It's tough, when I log on, I know no one and have played with no one...where do I start?

Everyone is going 10,000 different directions.

Well, what else can I say? I feel that this is just the way Guild Wars is, and has nearly always been. The competitive atmosphere helps little, if not worsen it.

I ignore the a-holes for a reason. I've tried on numerous occassions to talk to people who are being "an ass". All of their responses have been them literally ignoring me via. the list. Can't change a douchebag. I think the biggest problem with all this has to do with people not caring more than anything.

I would love it if there was a rating system of sorts in GW. Time spent AFK in AB etc, the number of times you log- or map out from a mission, maybe an inclusion for spamming the same thing repeatedly. It could be automatically done, or by any moderators if they were employed. Too fiddly and unreliable to happen, but it would certainly motivate players not to screw the game up for others. And would help decent players choose the right people for their party.

As for community input, just either turn off local chat and use ignores, or tolerate what's being said. And be pleasant, either way.

So, what you are saying is that spamming and being a jerk online is equivalent to murder? Murder is against the law, right?

Wrong. That's a ridiculous juxtaposition.

The OP is refering to the community as a whole, not the forums. The forums are generally polite (although certain users and moderators may find it ironic that I'm saying that). Obviously, the in-game community is worse, and is that the OP wants to fix.

So, you want to remove the right of privacy completely? Maybe that proposed screen should list your name and address too, just to confirm that you are playing on an American server...

I would like to address this post before it drives the topic away from my original intention.

Like I said, please do not get me started on the subject of Farming. All I have at the moment are my own thoughts, morals and logic. Just as well, I have yet to come up with a full, iron-clad argument against farming that can pursuade in a friendly manner. I have a very strong stance against Farming, and any argument I may leak prematurely is damn sure to be a cynical one.

I bring this up because this community problem is just that -- A problem with and to the community. We suffer together because we do not act together. My prime example that I shall base this on is the Party Search window. If the majority of the players used it properly, then all of us will benefit from the organization, coordination and efficiency. Parties for missions and trade agreements will be formed more quickly, and with less hassle. That's why it was added, is it not? It's irrational to avoid it the way we are! Why must the general public share the view that "nobody uses that feature, so it's worthless to even try"?

Hey, hold those zingers long enough to understand what I was saying:

My sense of community in Guild Wars is only within these forums and does not exist in-game for me.

Trade is obviously a very big part of Guild Wars for many players, ANet needs to better support that facet of the game because it impacts everyone.

Right now we have the equivalence of homeless people in every outpost, they have to do all their "business" on the street out in the open.

From what I see, the bulk of in-game player interaction are trade related activities.

Surely details about how some players disrupt the game for others isn't a breach of privacy? I apologise is this statement seems flippant, I admit I'm not exactly well versed in personal privacy laws and such. But surely this is on par with removing guild tags for privacy reasons.

I just don't see how allowing other players to know that you constantly leach in AB or spend all your time spamming offensive language in local chat is a bad thing.

And I suppose, [Vyldan], that the mindset is "noone else is using the party search so they won't see if I do." It sucks.

Why even start the topic if that's how you feel? It's not A-net's responsibility to baby-sit people who happen to play their game. And if everyone feels like "there's nothing that can be done," then their negativism is only adding to the problem. I said it in a different thread about this same subject: A little self-policing is needed. Ignoring the problems is nothing more than implied consent.

1. I don't care about people using the WTS/WTB in trade chat - it's hard to change the habit over to the Party window for many (but I see more and more ads showing up there in LA and Kamadan). When someone is spamming, I speak up, politely and publicly. I have yet to have someone respond negatively to my statements. If it happens, I'm prepared for that, too.

2. Never get upset in a PUG. Usually PUG failures are the result of people not listening, or thinking they know better than anyone else how to do something. When I'm in a PUG that fails because of these things, (and I when I DO know the mission) I explain to whoever hasn't bailed upon return to outpost why it went wrong and how to fix it. (Grand Court of Sebelkah, anyone?)

3. As for Farming, to each his own. I farm titles. Others farm gold & weapons. One of the biggest factors that affects the economy is player turn over. There are always new players coming on the scene with very little and there are always people with tons of gold, high-end weapons and armor who leave the game. Other than the vanity skins, prices for everything has been fairly stable over the past 22 months.

I don't particularly like communities in general, too many dicks like me running around.

I do think the OP,s original post was well thought out, and signifies that there are people that care enough about GW to try and help. That's all well and good, but it won't change a thing.

Likely scenario: This thread gets buried in less than a week amongst the PvP vs PvE, I want a mini Gwen and How do I make money threads that so many idiots seem to enjoy spamming us with.

Good Luck tho Vyldan!

KANE

Everyone is free to play the game the way they choose. If people want to be morons then let them, I for one couldn't care less.

It's in bad shape because of people like you spreading gloom and domm threads. gg

I don't get it or care People are entitled to their opinions. Nothing will change that.

Why start the topic? Because this is another one of my contributions towards helping. I'm not here to whine and complain about things that cannot be changed, I'm here in an attempt to pursuade others to begin taking action, perhaps influence friends, and maybe even change their minds.
True, the actions of the community are not ArenaNet's responsibility. That is why I said I respect that they are not taking measures towards doing so. That is why I created this topic. Only the community can change the community, and I feel this topic may help push that change for the better. We need to motivate the players. This forum contains a large collection of players.

The problem is not the Trade chat, it's the trade requests in the Local chat. People do not use the Trade channel regularly, either, despite it being detrimental to avoid it. People seem to be misguided, thinking only that the Local channel receives more attention. There are many, many more factors than that, and these factors are ignored. Ignored not out of stupidity or ignorance, but just out of a lack of forethought. Unfortunately, a lack of forethought seems to be a common trait, and irrational choices are made and promoted.

I do not get upset at PUGs for trivial reasons. I am upset with the general mentality that is displayed in PUGs: "It is acceptable to leave without warning. It is acceptable to..." Et cetera. The point being, I can sit through ten mission attempts, and have each mission contain three players that leave without warning simply because a couple people died, and not get angry at a single instance of someone leaving. The thing that angers me in that scenario is the simple fact that three people have left each time in ten games.

QFT. I don't think GW's community is any better or any worse then the rest of the internet. People going around saying "GW is doomed and full of horrible people" cause people to precieve that it is so.

Very true, but why do so many...seem to flourish in Guild Wars?

But, I don't classify them as "morons",

-Trade spamming in general chat isn't the problem, but a symptom

-Decrease in pick-up-groups aren't the problem, but a symptom

-Player population gaps across the three chapters isn't the problem, but a symptom

To me, the cause of these issues, first and foremost, springs from game design decisions that ANet has made over the last 2 campaigns. People react accordingly, and here we are.

Some of my ideas that might help:

-Give player in-game trade a home so it doesn't have to "accost people on the streets" as much as it does now.

-Work to reverse trends that discourage people from grouping and interacting with each other

-Don't expand the universe in ways that diminishes current population centers and crossroads