Proving it's not useless...

Everywhere I go in arenas I hear that my build is useless. Here I want to touch on my build vs. what people expect from an elementalist.

Here we have my build. It's a partial stoneflesh tank with 2 nukes and stone daggers for spammability.


Useless? No. I'll show you useless.

Here we have a water spiker. I've found that I *MIGHT* kill someone with it before I go pop.


Now I know what most of you are going to say so I'll get it out of the way.

Your build doesn't have enough damage!
Really? 42x2 = 84x5 = 420
and 35x2 = 70x5 = 350
420+350 = 770 in 10 seconds, before armor reduction of course. and 70 a second while both nukes are recharging.

Now let's look at that spiker build.

105+105 = 210 for shatterstone.
Assuming the opponent isn't enchanted...
210+143 = 353 in 3 seconds.
Assuming the opponoent gets an enchantment up...
210+71.5(let's assume 72 cause i've never seen half hp marks :P)= 282 in 3 seconds.

So 282 to 353 damage in 3 seconds + 74 for each ice spear means 948-1019 damage in 10 seconds without considering armor.

Your build doesn't have res signet!
So? I'm not going to die unless it's REALLY bad, why are you going to die? Are you going to be running the spiker setup and not even be able to use the res signet on me if I die because I'm using the same setup?

Ok that's not fair. Basically..I'd rather live myself and keep doing damage than carry around a res signet I can't use anyhow.

This is where I ask the community, what do you expect from your elementalists? And sit back to get flamed....

Both of those builds suck all sorts of ass.

For the earth build:

Your "nukes" rely on someone being enough of an idiot to stand in them for 5 seconds. Not only that, they're on a 30 second recharge and you have no snare to keep people in them.

Let's take a more careful look at your DPS. Assuming no one dodges it, you'll be hitting every 1.75 seconds while spamming. So that's 35*2/1.75 = 40 DPS, right at what an autoattacking warrior hits under IAS. Yay? The AoE has such a stupidly long recharge that it hardly adds any DPS. Your total is somewhere around 42ish DPS, which is barely better than autoattack, and we haven't even begun to factor in armor.

As for the rez sig, do you really think one skill on your bar is better than 7 skills on someone else's bar?

So, to sum it all up, you have crap damage, no utility for team defense (other than trying to catch warrior with eruption for the blind) and no rez. Yup, that build sucks.

For the water build, it's pretty much mandatory to run glyph of elemental power and icy prism instead of ice spear.

That gives you 115+115+159 damage in 3 seconds, with a 76 point afterspike hitting 1.75 seconds later, for a total of 465 damage in 3 seconds, which is *almost* enough for a clean spike on a 60 AL target.

Problem is, it has no utility, major energy problems, poor self defense (since it's a RA build) and a telegraphed spike(but at least you have a rez sig). Yup, while that build is a fun gimmick, it still sucks.

Oh, and also you use sup. energy storage, which means you fail at the game.

With the current metagame, I expect lots of utility (heal party, wards, blindbots, etc.) and snares on my eles. In groups, eles can spike effectively, but not on their own. AoE is currently semi-viable in PvE but generally worthless in PvP due to recharge and AoE size concerns.

Your entire post becomes null and void to me the moment you say "Oh, and also you use sup. energy storage, which means you fail at the game."

Have a nice day.

ok, ill try and discuss this. aside from the fact that your numbers ignore both casting time and aftercast, the fact that one deals AoE dmg while the other deals focused dmg, and that water spike is rather horrible, the thinking/math is still faulty.

by your own numbers: 770 dmg over 10 seconds = 77 dmg per second. while this number isnt even close to being right (casting time, aftercast, armor reduction, ability to step to the left and avoid all the dmg), ill humor things here and go with it. the water spike deals, at your low end, 282 over 3 seconds = 94 dmg per second. again, this number is also wrong (same reasons above). even if i use your flawed logic, the earth build still fails. so i dont get why you even brought that up. when you actually factor these things in, the earth build deals less dmg than an auto attacking warrior, especially if the enemy take a step to the left. the water spike is also bad, but at least has a half-hearted spike.

as for the rez issue, i dont get any of what you said, aside from that you dont want to bring one. ok... i dont even want to go into this...

Quote: Originally Posted by ss1986v2 ok, ill try and discuss this. aside from the fact that your numbers ignore both casting time and aftercast, the fact that one deals AoE dmg while the other deals focused dmg, and that water spike is rather horrible, the thinking/math is still faulty. Actually, no...my numbers don't ignore casting time. Did you even take the time to read it correctly? I factored it in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2 by your own numbers: 770 dmg over 10 seconds = 77 dmg per second. while this number isnt even close to being right (casting time, aftercast, armor reduction, ability to step to the left and avoid all the dmg), ill humor things here and go with it. the water spike deals, at your low end, 282 over 3 seconds = 94 dmg per second. again, this number is also wrong (same reasons above). even if i use your flawed logic, the earth build still fails. so i dont get why you even brought that up. when you actually factor these things in, the earth build deals less dmg than an auto attacking warrior, especially if the enemy take a step to the left. the water spike is also bad, but at least has a half-hearted spike. as for the rez issue, i dont get any of what you said, aside from that you dont want to bring one. ok... i dont even want to go into this... Eh..what I stated in my post outlines all of what was above. I do in fact factor in casting time and I'm listing raw damage before armor reduction. And it's not as uncommon as you'd believe it to be for people to stay inside the AoE. As far as the res I'm basically saying..I don't die, why should you?

Quote: Originally Posted by Maikar

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I agree the builds lack dmg and i suggest trying to be less durable and more offensive. Keep your HP above 500. I dont recommend using a sup unless it provides a sustancial benefit.

However... Guys there is a fine line between constructive criticism and arrogent Bashing. Lets try to be a tad more civil and mature in such matters
and point out the flaws and suggest a proper alternative.

Quote: Originally Posted by Saider maul

The first build is a perfectly good build for beating up scrubs in RA. It poses two simple sanity checks:

1) Do you know how to move out of AoE?
2) Can you find a target besides the Stoneflesh tank?

If multiple members fail one of those two tests in RA, this build's team will probably win. The trouble being, if they do not fail those tests, this character is basically useless. His AoEs are significantly weaker in RA due to the low player count, and Stone Daggers is not a threat. His defensive enchantments can be safely ignored until the rest of the team is dead.

That is why this character is largely viewed as a waste by the arena community - it is a very weak character for getting the long streaks neccessary to win Gladiator points. He poses a stumbling block for terrible players, but against the better teams he's a dead character. Sure, occasionally you will go on a long win streak, usually from being paired with some strong players and facing weaker opposition - but they are carrying you, not the other way around.

The second build, well, you're calling it useless, and I won't disagree. I don't know why you'd run that build ever. =/

Peace,
-CxE

That first one would work somewhat decently in Aspenwood as well, as the people there are about as bright as the average RA player, and your main target as a luxon can't even move.

Additionally, it happens that people are very bad at killing stoneflesh eles in RA/Aspenwood.

Ok, at least there's some good stuff coming in on this now. I took the advice of Dr Strangelove and I ran a ward ele. A very effective ward ele. I used:

Elemental Attunement
Earth Attunement
Stoneflesh Aura
Mystic Regeneration
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Foes
Ward Against Melee
Reserrection Signet

It lived very well to keep the wards up...only problem is, well, while some people liked the idea and stayed in the wards to survive with me...others didn't like the idea so much...ran off, died, and promptly cursed me out.

I....have come to the conclusion that you honestly can't please everyone. And I give up.

Quote: Originally Posted by Maikar

Guys, he's joking. He had me going until I saw the three wards suggestion.

What I think beginners can learn from this thread is not to be afraid of exhaustion. Obsidian Flame is probably the best single target raw damage spell an elementalist has.

If the only exhaustion spell you have loaded is Meteor, you can cast it on recharge whenever it comes up, and never cripple your energy. It's a very decent skill on AI heroes with Searing Flames.

Even with the nerf, I would not go into the Arenas without Gale. Interrupt someone trying to res, gank a weakened monk, kite away from a melee character, I don't care what else you have loaded. Gale will see some use there.

dammit! ensign beat me to ragging on how shitty those builds are.

You got beaten this time round in your ninja-posting, Thom.

Both of the builds suck, end of story. If your target doesn't know how to move out of AoE/doesn't know to hit a target without Armor of Earth + Mystic Regeneration + Stoneflesh Aura...then the build would work, but not if there are better players around.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Yeah, let's everyone take mystic regeneration, that's free -_-.
You know, I am water spiker and I think exactly the same from earth tanks than you think of me, but let me explain a bit, for you don't seem to really play an ele since longtime ago...
So : your earth tank does not do any damage, stone dagger only is damaging in your build, eruption is really good at blinding mobs, but not for damage... and why mystic regeneration ? I hate this skill every one getting it but it does'nt heal you much... take aura of restoration with spammable daggers, that's my opinion.
And WHAT is wrong with the water spiker ? It is reallly really really powerfull, you don't seem to realize shaterstone's power : it's godly, gaze of contempt is good, but I presonnaly prefer rend enchantments since the buff : you know it's for vapor blade to really spike your face down ? And it removes all your enchant, you become skishy, our sins can take you down in 5 secs maximum ! You don't seem to realize that your only weakness is enchant removal, and it's a HUGE weakness !
And LOL let's look the recharge time of water spike : 8 seconds ! Yours : 30 secs... mmmh is there any other doubt on your uselessness, except for farming (ah sorry I forgot you don't know PvP is not farming sorry again...)
Please all stop making only earth tanking eles, it's really insulting for us true eles in pvp, now everytime I run an earth build in AB my team wants me to ping my build to verify i'm not useless tanker :/ annoying, you bring some shame on eles, like toucher did on rangers
EDIT : And the water build doesn't suck at all man : http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:E/N_Shattering_Vapor just play it -_-

Not being at home, and not having access to my occasional PvP earth build, all I'd say is that in my experience, interrupts are probably the ele's biggest fear. You are generally running high cost/high recharge skills, so interrupts stop you dead. If you can find a space for it, go E/Me with Mantra of Resolve on your bar

Quote: Originally Posted by Maikar