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How does Anet come up with some of these missions?
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Rather than saying "LOL, that is easy" why don't you guys give some help? All of us were newbies to the game at some point.
I've found that all the missions are fairly easy with heroes and hench (often far more easy than joining a PuG) if you figure out a good strategy. For Gate of Pain, there are two main types of enemies you have to worry about, the Terrorweb/Tortureweb Dryders, who are fire elementalists, and the Tormented.
The Dryders are particularly nasty if you are using hench/heroes because they tend to follow you and bunch together, so their AoE fire attacks can be devastating. The Terrorwebs (the non-boss version) usually come in groups of 2 or 3, and the main thing you have to worry about is Meteor Shower. It is a good idea to bring interrupts (equipping power drain and leech signet on heroes is a good idea, since heroes interrupt better than any human can and it serves as energy management too). I find it easiest if you bring an interrupt/knockdown yourself, and if you call an attack on one of the terrorwebs, your heroes should interrupt/kill it with no problem. You should interrupt/knockdown on the other terrorweb if it tries to cast meteor shower (you should be able to survive the other spells). If a Meteor Shower is successfuly cast, make sure you move your heroes/hench away by setting a flag. If you Broadhead Arrow unlocking, bringing a hero ranger with Broadhead and manually assigning a target using the crosshair icon on the hero bar makes the Dryders very easy.
The Torturewebs are alot more difficult because they are bosses, so they have 2x cast speed, 2x recharge rate, and 2x damage of normal spells. You can get wiped instantly if you are not careful. If you have Broadhead Arrow, the Torturewebs become trivial to beat (Broadhead also makes the Terrorwebs much easier too), but if not you may want to manually send one of your heavier armor heroes in first, to get the focus of the Tortureweb (ideally a ranger since they have highest elemental resistance, but a warrior can work too). If you turn off all your interrupts, you can attack a Tortureweb when he is casting Soul Torture, which takes something like 30 seconds, so you would have plenty of time (however, my hench always seem to interrupt it). Blackout is also particularly effective against the Dryders (it also interrupts meteor shower), because you should be able to kill them within a few seconds, you just have to prevent their first wave of hard hitting spells.
The thing that makes the Tormented Demons difficult is that they use "Call to the Torment" when they almost die (usually around 20-40% hp remaining). For 5 seconds, the Torment creature will take double damage, but if it is not killed, a duplicate of the creature is spawned at full HP. Therefore, it is important not to severely damage all the Torment enemies at the same time, because most likely they will use Call to the Torment and you won't be able to kill all of them in time and they will respawn. It is important to focus fire on one Torment at a time and kill it. Also, if you have hard hitting spells (Lightbringer's Gaze is always a good option), save it until they cast "Call to the Torment" and hit them for double damage to finish the creature quickly. The Torments are also dangerous mainly because they are level 28 (meaning they are just stronger than you are) and the AI is pretty smart (they tend to go after your casters rather than your tank). In general, the Word of Madness(a smite monk), Herald of Nightmares (mesmer), Shadow of Fear (necro) do low damage and are easy to kill. The Rain of Terror (elementalist) has low armor but does high damage, so it is probably the best to target them first (note that the torment monks are smite monks, so they don't heal much, so the usual "monk first" strategy isn't the best). The Blade of Corruption (warrior), Arm of Insanity (ranger), and Scythe of Chaos (dervish) do a lot of damage and are difficult to kill due to their high armor, self healing, and high level. However, the good thing is that they all do physical damage. I found it best to not bring any tanks or melee heroes/hench, since the Tormented seem smart enough to target the casters anyways. The melee hero/hench usually just end up aggroing other groups. Having a necro hero using anti physical curses (Shadow of Fear, Enfeeble, Enfeebling Blood, Faintheartedness, Meekness) makes these enemies do insignificant damage (In fact, I have beaten the game with only heroes and hench, and I have never used one melee hero or hench, the curse necro "tanks" much better, since stacking weakness and 50% attack speed hex will cause enemy damage to go down to about 1/6 of what it would be). It also helps avoid over-aggroing because all your heroes/hench can be ranged. I think that the Tormented were somewhat designed to counter the old "holy trinity" builds (tank, healer, nuker) because they quickly wipe a group if anything goes wrong, whereas a debuff strategy involving many hexes that weaken the Torments will allow you to comfortably hold two groups of Torments and pick them off one at a time (It's slower, but gives room for error). I hope this helps.
I've found that all the missions are fairly easy with heroes and hench (often far more easy than joining a PuG) if you figure out a good strategy. For Gate of Pain, there are two main types of enemies you have to worry about, the Terrorweb/Tortureweb Dryders, who are fire elementalists, and the Tormented.
The Dryders are particularly nasty if you are using hench/heroes because they tend to follow you and bunch together, so their AoE fire attacks can be devastating. The Terrorwebs (the non-boss version) usually come in groups of 2 or 3, and the main thing you have to worry about is Meteor Shower. It is a good idea to bring interrupts (equipping power drain and leech signet on heroes is a good idea, since heroes interrupt better than any human can and it serves as energy management too). I find it easiest if you bring an interrupt/knockdown yourself, and if you call an attack on one of the terrorwebs, your heroes should interrupt/kill it with no problem. You should interrupt/knockdown on the other terrorweb if it tries to cast meteor shower (you should be able to survive the other spells). If a Meteor Shower is successfuly cast, make sure you move your heroes/hench away by setting a flag. If you Broadhead Arrow unlocking, bringing a hero ranger with Broadhead and manually assigning a target using the crosshair icon on the hero bar makes the Dryders very easy.
The Torturewebs are alot more difficult because they are bosses, so they have 2x cast speed, 2x recharge rate, and 2x damage of normal spells. You can get wiped instantly if you are not careful. If you have Broadhead Arrow, the Torturewebs become trivial to beat (Broadhead also makes the Terrorwebs much easier too), but if not you may want to manually send one of your heavier armor heroes in first, to get the focus of the Tortureweb (ideally a ranger since they have highest elemental resistance, but a warrior can work too). If you turn off all your interrupts, you can attack a Tortureweb when he is casting Soul Torture, which takes something like 30 seconds, so you would have plenty of time (however, my hench always seem to interrupt it). Blackout is also particularly effective against the Dryders (it also interrupts meteor shower), because you should be able to kill them within a few seconds, you just have to prevent their first wave of hard hitting spells.
The thing that makes the Tormented Demons difficult is that they use "Call to the Torment" when they almost die (usually around 20-40% hp remaining). For 5 seconds, the Torment creature will take double damage, but if it is not killed, a duplicate of the creature is spawned at full HP. Therefore, it is important not to severely damage all the Torment enemies at the same time, because most likely they will use Call to the Torment and you won't be able to kill all of them in time and they will respawn. It is important to focus fire on one Torment at a time and kill it. Also, if you have hard hitting spells (Lightbringer's Gaze is always a good option), save it until they cast "Call to the Torment" and hit them for double damage to finish the creature quickly. The Torments are also dangerous mainly because they are level 28 (meaning they are just stronger than you are) and the AI is pretty smart (they tend to go after your casters rather than your tank). In general, the Word of Madness(a smite monk), Herald of Nightmares (mesmer), Shadow of Fear (necro) do low damage and are easy to kill. The Rain of Terror (elementalist) has low armor but does high damage, so it is probably the best to target them first (note that the torment monks are smite monks, so they don't heal much, so the usual "monk first" strategy isn't the best). The Blade of Corruption (warrior), Arm of Insanity (ranger), and Scythe of Chaos (dervish) do a lot of damage and are difficult to kill due to their high armor, self healing, and high level. However, the good thing is that they all do physical damage. I found it best to not bring any tanks or melee heroes/hench, since the Tormented seem smart enough to target the casters anyways. The melee hero/hench usually just end up aggroing other groups. Having a necro hero using anti physical curses (Shadow of Fear, Enfeeble, Enfeebling Blood, Faintheartedness, Meekness) makes these enemies do insignificant damage (In fact, I have beaten the game with only heroes and hench, and I have never used one melee hero or hench, the curse necro "tanks" much better, since stacking weakness and 50% attack speed hex will cause enemy damage to go down to about 1/6 of what it would be). It also helps avoid over-aggroing because all your heroes/hench can be ranged. I think that the Tormented were somewhat designed to counter the old "holy trinity" builds (tank, healer, nuker) because they quickly wipe a group if anything goes wrong, whereas a debuff strategy involving many hexes that weaken the Torments will allow you to comfortably hold two groups of Torments and pick them off one at a time (It's slower, but gives room for error). I hope this helps.
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I'm finally getting around to putting a character through The Realm of Torment (PuG'd through that mission the day before, no real problems luckily).
I got to enjoy "Kormir's Crusade" last night, and even with the help of GuildWiki's route, it still took me multiple attempts to finish it. I really am not looking forward to going through it again on another character.
Each time I restarted the quest, I'd try to have learned a bit about what I was facing, and adjust my hero/henchy group (Include lots of interupts as others have said), avoid the stupid overlapping patrols, and learn the priority targets and kill them quickly to avoid the "Call to the Torment".
I got to enjoy "Kormir's Crusade" last night, and even with the help of GuildWiki's route, it still took me multiple attempts to finish it. I really am not looking forward to going through it again on another character.
Each time I restarted the quest, I'd try to have learned a bit about what I was facing, and adjust my hero/henchy group (Include lots of interupts as others have said), avoid the stupid overlapping patrols, and learn the priority targets and kill them quickly to avoid the "Call to the Torment".
gate of pain is a royal pain in the ***, i hate that mission, need 2 or 3 or more times to get through the two groups of torments.
when you begin the mission, go hugging the left wall, its the easies/shortest way of the beggining, once you reach the area where you face the terrorwebs and reached the river of souls, go to the right and keep an eye for the bridge to cross over those souls.
some tips to deal with the torments: keep high damaging spells for when they use the skill torment call or some such, take the down one by one, this is the order i usually try to take them down:
rain of terrors> scythe of chaos>the ranger torments>words of madness>everything else.
word of madness dont have much healing, so if you have enough firepower you should overcome their healing, if you dont have high damage skills/spells (obsidian flame, spiritual pain, eviscerate,etc) remember the skill lightbringer gaze.
against the terrorwebs, if you place dunkoro as prot monk, and make him cast prot spirit on you, leroy on your own, leaving the henchis behind you a few steps, and make the terrorwebs waste their MS on you... just keep an eye on the protective spirit icon so it doesnt end before you order your henchies to folow you and help you kill em.
and last, for the torturewebs, they can be hard to kill if you are not careful, if you have factions, have margrid or acolite jin with broad arrow head, at max markmanship it should last long enough to re use it, usually with one use i can kill the tortureweb.
if you dont have factions, having a mesmer with several interrupts should give you enough time to kill it, if not act as a decoy with prot spirit, get the aggro of the monster, walk to the oposite direction from wich you came, then then remove the standing flag of them so they naturally run to you and as soon as they get close to the tortureweb they engage it.
other than that i have no more ideas. hope it helps
once you get past these 2 groups
when you begin the mission, go hugging the left wall, its the easies/shortest way of the beggining, once you reach the area where you face the terrorwebs and reached the river of souls, go to the right and keep an eye for the bridge to cross over those souls.
some tips to deal with the torments: keep high damaging spells for when they use the skill torment call or some such, take the down one by one, this is the order i usually try to take them down:
rain of terrors> scythe of chaos>the ranger torments>words of madness>everything else.
word of madness dont have much healing, so if you have enough firepower you should overcome their healing, if you dont have high damage skills/spells (obsidian flame, spiritual pain, eviscerate,etc) remember the skill lightbringer gaze.
against the terrorwebs, if you place dunkoro as prot monk, and make him cast prot spirit on you, leroy on your own, leaving the henchis behind you a few steps, and make the terrorwebs waste their MS on you... just keep an eye on the protective spirit icon so it doesnt end before you order your henchies to folow you and help you kill em.
and last, for the torturewebs, they can be hard to kill if you are not careful, if you have factions, have margrid or acolite jin with broad arrow head, at max markmanship it should last long enough to re use it, usually with one use i can kill the tortureweb.
if you dont have factions, having a mesmer with several interrupts should give you enough time to kill it, if not act as a decoy with prot spirit, get the aggro of the monster, walk to the oposite direction from wich you came, then then remove the standing flag of them so they naturally run to you and as soon as they get close to the tortureweb they engage it.
other than that i have no more ideas. hope it helps
once you get past these 2 groups
Noblepaladin. Thanks for the advice. Not up to the mission yet, but by the sound of it people complain that it's hard.
I also agree that almost all of Nightfalls missions are hench/heroe-able. I've gotten up too The Desolation with only Heroes and Henchys, with the exception of a few quests.
Great points and advice.
I also agree that almost all of Nightfalls missions are hench/heroe-able. I've gotten up too The Desolation with only Heroes and Henchys, with the exception of a few quests.
Great points and advice.
I wonder what kind of players find missions like this easy. Are they experienced PvP players? Experienced UW/FOW players? Because the majority in this game plays very straightforeward: They don't even bother watching spells being cast by the enemy, they use their most favorite build and trust to be supported enough by the party, no matter if its human or heroes/henchies. For THEM missions like this are almost impossible!
There are some good advices here. Problem is that for the above group of players its not logical at all to switch targets rapidly to interrupt spells being cast. I think we just have to accept that unlike in singleplayer games in GW the endlevel content can't be done by many players. Compare it to chess. Many players will never be able to win a game against a computer on average difficulty or higher. Question is: Is this ok for a game like GW??
There are some good advices here. Problem is that for the above group of players its not logical at all to switch targets rapidly to interrupt spells being cast. I think we just have to accept that unlike in singleplayer games in GW the endlevel content can't be done by many players. Compare it to chess. Many players will never be able to win a game against a computer on average difficulty or higher. Question is: Is this ok for a game like GW??
If you are still having trouble with the Gate of Pain, I can try and help with my mesmer. I had a rough time at first, but made a build that can make the dryders a lot less challenging.
As for the torments, it might help to focus on killing them in a particular order. I really like killing the Shadow of Fears first, then the Word of Madnesses. The Scythes are going to be a big pain, but it's important to bring some type of snare move as you generally do not want to focus on them until near the end of the battle as they have good survival potential and can take more time to kill than the other types of monsters.
I wish you luck! If you pay close attention and look at all the skills available and henchman available you will find a way to beat this, and maybe even find a better way to beat it on successive tries.
As for the torments, it might help to focus on killing them in a particular order. I really like killing the Shadow of Fears first, then the Word of Madnesses. The Scythes are going to be a big pain, but it's important to bring some type of snare move as you generally do not want to focus on them until near the end of the battle as they have good survival potential and can take more time to kill than the other types of monsters.
I wish you luck! If you pay close attention and look at all the skills available and henchman available you will find a way to beat this, and maybe even find a better way to beat it on successive tries.
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Originally Posted by Esprit
A Ranger with Broad Head Arrow helps a lot against those Torturewebs.
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Take whatever professions in your PUG and look over what skills they have to see what will be available to the group.
To the OP, just keep experimenting and you will find many ways from many professions to ease through that mission. It's kinda fun to find out all the tricks each profession has to help get through.
i agree with those who say, 'figure it out yourself'. i do just that, so therefore i can be a l33t as i want to be, i do it myself. not whine on a forum about how impossible it is with the way your obviously doing it(wrong).
when i got stuck at shiro the first time, i read the skill that he uses to obliterate everyone around him 1/4 away from death. if anyone with half a brain reads it, you can tell that fast low hit dmg will make the fight ez'er to maintain, as well as obvious "best skills" such as spoil victor. necro warriorhate hexes all around do you well. just dont be a noob and bring meteor shower x4 for him. for one he can't be knocked down, and ele dmg is a joke for him.
i couldnt help myself, i gave out hints/tips. o well for my l33tness....
when i got stuck at shiro the first time, i read the skill that he uses to obliterate everyone around him 1/4 away from death. if anyone with half a brain reads it, you can tell that fast low hit dmg will make the fight ez'er to maintain, as well as obvious "best skills" such as spoil victor. necro warriorhate hexes all around do you well. just dont be a noob and bring meteor shower x4 for him. for one he can't be knocked down, and ele dmg is a joke for him.
i couldnt help myself, i gave out hints/tips. o well for my l33tness....