Curse

Sk8tborderx · Jan 05, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Why not go mo/me so you can have unlimited SB? Thats what my guildies do an they do 2 man clearing runs all the time.

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Why not go mo/me so you can have unlimited SB? Thats what my guildies do an they do 2 man clearing runs all the time.

Well I don't do clearing runs but I always go as a Mo/Me. For convenience and ease, both the 55 and SS necro take SV.

Assume DF is at 15. SB will last 17 seconds. Blessed Aura will give you +35% to enchantments, and assume a weapon with a 20% mod is being used.

That's a total of 55% duration added to enchantments. At this level, Spell Breaker will last for 26 seconds.

If you use Arcane Echo first, you need to cast the echo'd SB after 20 seconds, renewing it.

So the duration would be
First SB: 20
Second: 26
Third: 26
Total: 72 second SB.

Note that after 45 seconds the original SB will be recharged, and so it can be cast again. After 72 second's, no more SB for about 20 seconds, where you can do the whole thing all over again.

So it's up 78% of the time, if your timing is good and your energy is enough. I don't know if this is enough to kill 3,6,9 mindblades or not, but it's not ture 100% uptime.

I used to use this method for clearing out perdition rock before 10/11

Sk8tborderx · Jan 05, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

SB is up long enough to kill the group of 3 then back up, kill the 6 back up, kill the 9 then go kill the next groups. Even if it is not up 100% of the time a MO/ME is much safer than a Mo/W.

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

SB is up long enough to kill the group of 3 then back up, kill the 6 back up, kill the 9 then go kill the next groups..

Good to know, I'll consider trying that... is energy/interrupts ever an issue? Also, how long between the 3,6, and 9 spawns? seconds? immediately after the previous group dies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Even if it is not up 100% of the time a MO/ME is much safer than a Mo/W.

Thanks for stating the obvious

Even solo, Mo/Me is far superior. I don't get why I still see so many Mo/W's out there.
EDIT: Probably using the cookie-cutter (Jellysamwich's thread) build?

sno · Jan 05, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

I love how theres so many people trying to figure out our build, and getting it SO wrong. It's interesting that the thread was completely hijacked by people guessing at how we did this. I also find it hilarious that people are critiquing my build, saying how I should run it.

Quote:

Why not go mo/me so you can have unlimited SB? Thats what my guildies do an they do 2 man clearing runs all the time.

I don't believe you, Period. imo, clearing all of UW with only 2 people is very nearly impossible. btw, with only 2 people (one being a necro,) unlimited SB is NOT attainable.

Quote:

Thanks for stating the obvious Even solo, Mo/Me is far superior. I don't get why I still see so many Mo/W's out there.
EDIT: Probably using the cookie-cutter (Jellysamwich's thread) build?

I created my mo/w build using trial and error, and it is FAR superior to mo/me builds. Sure, mo/me has its good points, but not nearly what mo/w can offer.

Quote:

soloing trapping UW owns all.. but never knew UW was way bigger i need to get my SS neco up and running

sure, if you enjoy painfully long runs, and no one to talk to during them

fiery · Jan 05, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

soloing trapping UW owns all.. but never knew UW was way bigger i need to get my SS neco up and running

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

I created my mo/w build using trial and error...

Isn't that a standard old school invincimonk build with SB substituted in for Balthazar's Aura?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

...and it is FAR superior to mo/me builds. Sure, mo/me has its good points, but not nearly what mo/w can offer.

Why is Mo/W superior? Because you can take on 21 smites at a time? In my experience, the toughest part of that many smites would be gathering them up - which would waste time. I'm content with owning 10 smites in about 20 seconds - don't need to spend time rounding them up.

I know Bonetti's is a really nice skill, but I'd much rather have never-ending Sympathetic Visage than Bonetti's up 75% of the time. Bonetti's doesn't really help against mindblades - does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

soloing trapping UW owns all.. but never knew UW was way bigger i need to get my SS neco up and running

Why would you need to get your SS necro up and running if solo trapping owns all?

In addition, isn't solo trapping painfully long, as stated by sno? Infact, aside from Warrior and Mesmer builds that literally take forever, can it be any slower than solo trapping?

sno · Jan 05, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

Isn't that a standard old school invincimonk build with SB substituted in for Balthazar's Aura?

It's similar, yes. My attributes are different, and I've played around endlessly with other skill combinations, and found that this one works best.

Quote:

Why is Mo/W superior? Because you can take on 21 smites at a time? In my experience, the toughest part of that many smites would be gathering them up - which would waste time. I'm content with owning 10 smites in about 20 seconds - don't need to spend time rounding them up.

It's not just for the smites, although without bonettis you wouldn't be able to take that many smites at once. It's also for emergencies, for instance if your breeze gets interupted by graspings 4 times in a row and you're bleeding, what do you do? casting bonettis will practically stop damage (keeping you from dying,) AND give you instant energy (giving you the energy to cast the breeze that has just wasted 20 energy,) AND allow you to cast interupt-free (ensuring the spell will get off safely.) Without that emergency spell, you'd be toast. Sure as mo/me you can cast prot to lift yourself up with divine favor, but that doesn't help your energy management, and what if you're dazed? If you're dazed you probably won't even get prot off. Bonettis is the ULTIMATE solo monk emergency-recovery skill

Quote:

I know Bonetti's is a really nice skill, but I'd much rather have never-ending Sympathetic Visage than Bonetti's up 75% of the time. Bonetti's doesn't really help against mindblades - does it?

never ending SV is useless, as you only need it when you're fighting graspings (which if you have a good necro will be dead before his SV runs out anyways) and smites (again, a good necro can kill smites with only 1 SV.) Bonettis is nice against mindblades, as they don't hit all that fast, and you may need the energy boost in case you need to breeze your necro, not to mention should SB fall before they die you'll be hexed up, and won't be able to blessed sig. without bonettis ready you may run out of energy, and either let your necro die or die yourself (or both >.<)

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

It's also for emergencies, for instance if your breeze gets interupted by graspings 4 times in a row and you're bleeding, what do you do? ... and what if you're dazed?

Well if you have SV on you, no skull crack, no fear me, no distracting blow, no skills at all infact (from graspings)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNO

Bonettis is the ULTIMATE solo monk emergency-recovery skill

I'll give it that, it's a very good solo skill

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

never ending SV is useless, as you only need it when you're fighting graspings (which if you have a good necro will be dead before his SV runs out anyways) and smites (again, a good necro can kill smites with only 1 SV.) Bonettis is nice against mindblades, as they don't hit all that fast, and you may need the energy boost in case you need to breeze your necro, not to mention should SB fall before they die you'll be hexed up, and won't be able to blessed sig.

Can't really comment on the mindblades as I don't have the experience with them just yet, but as long as your monk is doing all the aggrovating, with endless SV, there is endless energy denial. => No hexes, degens, or any spells until the next round

sno · Jan 05, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

I'll give it that, it's a very good solo skill

First of all, if you were doing 1man solo runs you can't really go as mo/w... There'd be no way to deal with nightmares, which is why 1man UW farmers go as mo/me for an interupt.

Quote:

Well if you have SV on you, no skull crack, no fear me, no distracting blow, no skills at all infact (from graspings)

graspings are certainly not the only type of monster you'd want to use bonettis on. Mine was simply an example. Another example: if you're fighting 2 stragglers, only 2 graspings at a time, they wont give you hardly any energy back from balths, so you'll be struggling to begin with, and then when they die you'll be done until you recharge. with bonettis you can cast and refill before they die, and move right on to the next group. Bonettis is great for speeding things up as well as emergency recovery

. Taking SV is simply for laziness, as the necro can cast it just as easily. (any necro that takes more than 15 seconds to kill graspings needs some severe work on his build.)

Jiao Yang · Jan 05, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

First of all, if you were doing 1man solo runs you can't really go as mo/w... There'd be no way to deal with nightmares

i have an idea... is there any way u could swap something for holy veil which could give u enough time to wand them to death i think...

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiao Yang

i have an idea... is there any way u could swap something for holy veil which could give u enough time to wand them to death i think...

If you're fast enough you can kill 1 nightmare with your wand before his 3 second rend gets off. Rend is not a hex however, just a spell, so holy veil wouldn't do anything.

I've also seen people bring Zealouts Fire (despite the AoE nerf) just so they can kill a nightmare by getting up close & personal. I still prefer interrupt though, as it's safer.

Mo/N and N/Mo can also solo the UW and deal with the nightmares, so it's not limited to interrupts.

Something interesting is if 2 pop out, 1 will use rend and the other will use Blood is Power on the rending necro, making him easier to kill (sac 33% health) so be careful you target the one that is rending.

jtchans · Jan 05, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I personally use Zealots and I can aggro the first 2 groups in 1 go and I have a 95% success rate... It only get tricky with 3 Nitemares

Rhuobhe · Jan 05, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtchans

I personally use Zealots and I can aggro the first 2 groups in 1 go and I have a 95% success rate... It only get tricky with 3 Nitemares

See sno? There are ways to deal with the nightmares aside from interrupts

The question as to whether or not he uses Bonetti's isn't important - he could use it and take ZF as his nightmare killer.

So I will re-iterate my previous statement (referring to Bonetti's):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

I'll give it that, it's a very good solo skill

EDIT: To recap, I believe very strongly (with 99% certainty) that the necro build is:
Spiteful Spirit {E}
Suffering
Arcane Echo
Sympathetic Visage
Shatter Hex

I feel strongly that this is a Curses/Domination build.

The remaining 3 skills probably don't matter too much, but taking a guess, they probably come from the following pool:
Res Sig
Mind Wrack
Wastrel's Worry
Inspired Hex
Awaken the Blood

Kcp · Jan 05, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

IMO never use SV vs grasping darkness. It disables flurry,thus decreasing the killing speed of ss.

1 good cast of SS when squids are close is all it takes to drop a mob as long as you group them up correctly. I consistently drop them with 1 SS, ya once in awhile theres one left with enough life that a wand hit will kill it, but i'd rather use 1 wand hit which costs no nrg then 15 nrg for another SS.

Distracting blow and skull crack are very easy to beat. Just watch the distracting blow animation's. Once they all are done pop off your PS,HB,or SS.
They wont even have the time to gain enough adrenaline to get a skull crack off. Flurry+ SS=dead squids, most times you wont even have to refresh PS from initial cast

We easily beat mindblades, smites, aatxe w/o SV as well. May free up a slot for something to deal damage if you do w/o SV

sno · Jan 06, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

See sno? There are ways to deal with the nightmares aside from interrupts

The question as to whether or not he uses Bonetti's isn't important - he could use it and take ZF as his nightmare killer.

So I will re-iterate my previous statement (referring to Bonetti's):

EDIT: To recap, I believe very strongly (with 99% certainty) that the necro build is:
Spiteful Spirit {E}
Suffering
Arcane Echo
Sympathetic Visage
Shatter Hex

I feel strongly that this is a Curses/Domination build.

The remaining 3 skills probably don't matter too much, but taking a guess, they probably come from the following pool:
Res Sig
Mind Wrack
Wastrel's Worry
Inspired Hex
Awaken the Blood

Interesting theory, although Completely wrong

Quote:

IMO never use SV vs grasping darkness. It disables flurry,thus decreasing the killing speed of ss.

1 good cast of SS when squids are close is all it takes to drop a mob as long as you group them up correctly. I consistently drop them with 1 SS, ya once in awhile theres one left with enough life that a wand hit will kill it, but i'd rather use 1 wand hit which costs no nrg then 15 nrg for another SS.

Distracting blow and skull crack are very easy to beat. Just watch the distracting blow animation's. Once they all are done pop off your PS,HB,or SS.
They wont even have the time to gain enough adrenaline to get a skull crack off. Flurry+ SS=dead squids, most times you wont even have to refresh PS from initial cast

We easily beat mindblades, smites, aatxe w/o SV as well. May free up a slot for something to deal damage if you do w/o SV

I assume you take things very slowly if you can actually see distracting blow animations. When I kill graspings, I'm almost always killing them in groups of between 6 and 16 at a time (with 3 aatxes mixed in if there's only 6-8), so that would be impossible. Also if you're running smites with an n/me and not bringing SV, you're losing a TON of tme. (n/mo builds are fine without sv, but there are reasons for that.)

The reasons TO use SV against graspings FAR outweigh the very slight (barely noticable) increase in killing speed when they use flurry. Even without flurry they die in 1 SS, so why not use SV and make your monk not have to do as much work? He's already doing 80% of the hard work anyways down there. (don't fight me on that point, I have and use both builds.)

MrJerrypants · Jan 06, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

EDIT: To recap, I believe very strongly (with 99% certainty) that the necro build is:
Spiteful Spirit {E}
Suffering
Arcane Echo
Sympathetic Visage
Shatter Hex

I feel strongly that this is a Curses/Domination build.

The remaining 3 skills probably don't matter too much, but taking a guess, they probably come from the following pool:
Res Sig
Mind Wrack
Wastrel's Worry
Inspired Hex
Awaken the Blood

Sadly, the build I run falls in your 1% chance. There are many things that are overlooked with this. first off you're running a bar of upwards of 75 energy, with the echoing of ss you'd have an extremely expensive cycle if you plan on applying mind wrack and wastrels as often as you could. lets assume for a second that you have plenty of energy to run the cycle. great, you've mind wrack'd and wastrel'd 1 mindblade to death while the other 8 are at half health from spiteful. very wasteful and very time consuming trying to hammer one mindblade down at a time. you're confident it's a curses/dom build, yet sv runs on illusion. if you plan on running any soul reaping, you'll be spreading across 4 attributes, and that gets really ugly. the key is to remember that this build is designed to clear UW. all 8 skills are used liberally at some point or another. you're building something that seems to be tailored exactly for mindblades, and even then it's not very effective.

and in regards to the SB-less monk. Have fun holding SV on endlessly for ranged mobs that don't trigger it at all. Bon Def is as much an avoidance stance as it is an energy management skill. Please explain how you can tank mindblades without SB when you have migraine, conjure phant, ignorance, clumsiness stacked on you, along with numerous interupts and energy draining skills. not to mention enchant shatters from dream riders.

Rhuobhe · Jan 06, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJerrypants

Sadly, the build I run falls in your 1% chance. There are many things that are overlooked with this. first off you're running a bar of upwards of 75 energy, with the echoing of ss you'd have an extremely expensive cycle if you plan on applying mind wrack and wastrels as often as you could. lets assume for a second that you have plenty of energy to run the cycle. great, you've mind wrack'd and wastrel'd 1 mindblade to death while the other 8 are at half health from spiteful. very wasteful and very time consuming trying to hammer one mindblade down at a time. you're confident it's a curses/dom build, yet sv runs on illusion. if you plan on running any soul reaping, you'll be spreading across 4 attributes, and that gets really ugly. the key is to remember that this build is designed to clear UW. all 8 skills are used liberally at some point or another. you're building something that seems to be tailored exactly for mindblades, and even then it's not very effective.

and in regards to the SB-less monk. Have fun holding SV on endlessly for ranged mobs that don't trigger it at all. Bon Def is as much an avoidance stance as it is an energy management skill. Please explain how you can tank mindblades without SB when you have migraine, conjure phant, ignorance, clumsiness stacked on you, along with numerous interupts and energy draining skills. not to mention enchant shatters from dream riders.

Enchant shatters are easy...

Okay, well I know you're using Suffering at least, I can see the animation in one of your pictures. You're using SS, because if you weren't then you wouldn't be very efficient. You're using Sympathetic Visage because again, it can be seen in the picture.

Honestly I would be suprised if you weren't using Arcane Echo. Shatter Hex makes a lot of sence because its quick, AoE and does significant damage. You may also be using exclusivly necro skills aside from Visage, as so many do.

And there aren't too many useful skills in the mesmer line other than domination. I said earlier that you may be using Holy Veil to give a larger window for interrupting, and so perhaps you're bringing interrupt skills, although I doubt that.

It was said somewhere that your trio uses all of the skills liberally in most areas... I fail to see how Signet of midnight helps at all.

RotteN · Jan 06, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

i do believe that "signet of midnight" skillbar is just photoshopped on it :P

as for echoing spitefull : i find it a waste of energy, 45 energy kinda drains you completely

MrJerrypants · Jan 06, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhuobhe

And there aren't too many useful skills in the mesmer line other than domination. I said earlier that you may be using Holy Veil to give a larger window for interrupting, and so perhaps you're bringing interrupt skills, although I doubt that.

you obviously don't know anything about mesmer skills, or mindblades. i'm sure if i posted this quote in the mesmer forum you'd have quite a few mesmers tearing you up for saying dom is the only worthwhile att line. bringing interupts in an attempt to stop mindblades (mesmers, with fastcasting) is an effort in futility. might want to do your homework.