Curse

Flawed Perfectien · May 28, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma Song

I don't know any of you or any of your guilds, so no personal bias here - I just wanted to chime in since I just read the thread front to back, and saw far more accusations of drama and flaming than actual drama and flaming. In fact, the vast majority of contestants and commentators are far more civil than they ought to be, given some of the wretched things said by the judges. Yes yes, it's a cruel world, the modeling community, but it's important for the judges to remember that this is not, in fact, the modeling community. These are your peers, not your employees. These are your friends, not your personal verbal abuse toys. Your anonymity is not a free pass to be senselessly mean. 'Screening' entries and 'preparing' people for criticism isn't either.

I have judged and won screenshot contests for another game many times, and I would be utterly embarrassed to, first, say such nasty things about the entries, and second, to actually post such nasty things for the artist to see, let alone for public view. You've no right to complain if drama or hurt feelings arise over this 'game' of yours, since the entire contest seems intentionally organized to be dramatic, hurtful, and casually cruel. The integrity of the judging - based strictly on the judges' decisions and comments, since we have no information about their actual credentials - is questionable, and that has the unintended side-effect of undermining the whole competition - which is really very sad, since that will tend to negate the beautiful entries of talented artists. (And I'm not just talking about the political ousting of Beyoncee, which is astonishingly transparent, however deserved).

I very much hope that the next such competition enlists the aid of reviewers who can post relevant, constructive criticism as to the art, rather than seeing who can get in the snarkiest, meanest one-liner, as though they were TV icons with a hardcore image to maintain. If not, then we should continue expecting the same reaction from both model and lurker. In the meantime, perhaps you moderators could hold these nameless judges to the same standard of forum conduct with which you're threatening the rest of us. Not only do they contribute to it, they provoke it in the first place, yet ironically seem unwilling to accept public criticism themselves.

Thank you for summing up exactly what I was feeling/thinking. I'd edit down your post to only quote one line, but there's no possible way I could do it justice.

Thank you for coming in and articulating what so many of us are thinking/feeling.

~Lucy

Seamus Finn · May 28, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

I always thought it would have been more fun in the thread if the judges weren't anonymous. They could also develop personalities and even have a designated "mean judge"(this would also mirror the show more and would allow the drama filled critiques but be balanced with more level-headed responses as well). I actually enjoy the "edrama" on the thread, but I can understand how the contestants feel lost when it seems all three judges are mimicing the same archtype. I suppose ingame pms could be bothersome, but as a pvper, I know first hand there's always the ignored list... Just a thought for a future cycles that might have the best of both worlds.

bart · May 28, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma Song

I don't know any of you or any of your guilds, so no personal bias here - I just wanted to chime in since I just read the thread front to back, and saw far more accusations of drama and flaming than actual drama and flaming. In fact, the vast majority of contestants and commentators are far more civil than they ought to be, given some of the wretched things said by the judges. Yes yes, it's a cruel world, the modeling community, but it's important for the judges to remember that this is not, in fact, the modeling community. These are your peers, not your employees. These are your friends, not your personal verbal abuse toys. Your anonymity is not a free pass to be senselessly mean. 'Screening' entries and 'preparing' people for criticism isn't either.

I have judged and won screenshot contests for another game many times, and I would be utterly embarrassed to, first, say such nasty things about the entries, and second, to actually post such nasty things for the artist to see, let alone for public view. You've no right to complain if drama or hurt feelings arise over this 'game' of yours, since the entire contest seems intentionally organized to be dramatic, hurtful, and casually cruel. The integrity of the judging - based strictly on the judges' decisions and comments, since we have no information about their actual credentials - is questionable, and that has the unintended side-effect of undermining the whole competition - which is really very sad, since that will tend to negate the beautiful entries of talented artists. (And I'm not just talking about the political ousting of Beyoncee, which is astonishingly transparent, however deserved).

I very much hope that the next such competition enlists the aid of reviewers who can post relevant, constructive criticism as to the art, rather than seeing who can get in the snarkiest, meanest one-liner, as though they were TV icons with a hardcore image to maintain. If not, then we should continue expecting the same reaction from both model and lurker. In the meantime, perhaps you moderators could hold these nameless judges to the same standard of forum conduct with which you're threatening the rest of us. Not only do they contribute to it, they provoke it in the first place, yet ironically seem unwilling to accept public criticism themselves.

You sir have earned my salute! I think this is the best post i've ever read in GWG. Anyway, speaking from experience, one of the golden rules for reviewing a person's work is to not judge the character.

Jaden Stone · May 29, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I really don't see where all this judge hate is comming from?

Quote:

I just read the thread front to back, and saw far more accusations of drama and flaming than actual drama and flaming. In fact, the vast majority of contestants and commentators are far more civil than they ought to be, given some of the wretched things said by the judges.

Here are the only 4 things I found even slightly rude said by the judges toward a contestant throughout all evaluations and posts in this thread. All the rest of the evaluations had some form of constructive critism and informed the model what was wrong with the shot as to help her improve. Most of these comments are tame even by cycle one standards.

Quote:

Judge 1: Your face is hidden, you're holding a focus item which is kinda glitchy, your male model is unnoticable. The picture is a sloppy mess.

Quote:

Mojave - (This is where I draw the line on rude comments)

Quote:

Mila - butt looks too big

Quote:

Judge 1: These shots are dreadful. It looks boring, very unintersting, I wouldn't buy anything with these being used for ads.

Most and almost all the drama was being caused by outbursts from the save caleb Kane fan club and his close person friends, along with very few miscreants from [GR] (who are a stand up guild for the majority). I would need a whole page to quote the personal flames and random accusations by them in this thread alone.

Quote:

(And I'm not just talking about the political ousting of Beyoncee, which is astonishingly transparent, however deserved).

QFT

I dont know if you understand the rules of this competition and what the models have been forwarned about. They were told they would be under intense and harsh critisism. They were informed by both me and nilene that Personality did play a large factor in elimination, as it does in the show.

Quote:

I very much hope that the next such competition enlists the aid of reviewers who can post relevant, constructive criticism as to the art

This is not an art competition, it's a modeling competetion. The nicest shot may not always win. There are many factors to which to win this competition and if you truely read this thread you'd understand that. This is what makes this competition great. Oh, and about the judges, Should we hire some top designers? fashion editors? I know, models!.... Right now you have 3 avid fans of ANTM who are impartial and really care about this competition. I don't think you are going to get any better than that.

I know the one thing that really got people going was the judges seeming to not care about mila during her hospital stay, and I have to say I was expecting them to be a bit more empathetic. But, I don't think this warrants the judge bashing at all. /done rant . KANE DEFENDERS UNITE... SMITE THIS THREAD WITH ALL YOUR POWER!

Quote:

Jaden Stone 4 Eva

QFT.

edit, Fixed the K's to unleash the wrath

LadyNilene · May 29, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma Song

I don't know any of you or any of your guilds, so no personal bias here - I just wanted to chime in since I just read the thread front to back, and saw far more accusations of drama and flaming than actual drama and flaming. In fact, the vast majority of contestants and commentators are far more civil than they ought to be, given some of the wretched things said by the judges. Yes yes, it's a cruel world, the modeling community, but it's important for the judges to remember that this is not, in fact, the modeling community. These are your peers, not your employees. These are your friends, not your personal verbal abuse toys. Your anonymity is not a free pass to be senselessly mean. 'Screening' entries and 'preparing' people for criticism isn't either.

Yes, this isn't a real modeling community, however, that is what I am trying to portray and simulate for our participants. I am not forcing any of our contenders to partake in this competition, if they do not like it, they can and are welcome to leave at any time they please.

Quote:

I have judged and won screenshot contests for another game many times, and I would be utterly embarrassed to, first, say such nasty things about the entries, and second, to actually post such nasty things for the artist to see, let alone for public view. You've no right to complain if drama or hurt feelings arise over this 'game' of yours, since the entire contest seems intentionally organized to be dramatic, hurtful, and casually cruel. The integrity of the judging - based strictly on the judges' decisions and comments, since we have no information about their actual credentials - is questionable, and that has the unintended side-effect of undermining the whole competition - which is really very sad, since that will tend to negate the beautiful entries of talented artists. (And I'm not just talking about the political ousting of Beyoncee, which is astonishingly transparent, however deserved)

This is a simulation of a popular modeling competition show, not an art exhibition. Modeling is an art, but unlike traditional art, there is a right and wrong to modeling. Yes, I understand who's to say that we are the top all-knowing people of modeling, but we do hold this competition dear and we do know what we're talking about.

Quote:

I very much hope that the next such competition enlists the aid of reviewers who can post relevant, constructive criticism as to the art, rather than seeing who can get in the snarkiest, meanest one-liner, as though they were TV icons with a hardcore image to maintain. If not, then we should continue expecting the same reaction from both model and lurker. In the meantime, perhaps you moderators could hold these nameless judges to the same standard of forum conduct with which you're threatening the rest of us. Not only do they contribute to it, they provoke it in the first place, yet ironically seem unwilling to accept public criticism themselves

I am tired of these quotes, cause I've heard them all last round. You, the thread viewers, have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, you have no idea what we say and do with our contestants. We are not heartless, we do talk to our contestants in individual emails, we do keep them up to date, and we do encourage them throughout the competition. We value and cherish our contestants, cause without them, we have no competition. We edit the thread for suspense and drama, cause first and foremost, this is a "reality tv show" remake to thread. Until you are in my shoes, spending the time and effort, and giving the heart into this competition as much as me and my fellow judges, all I ask is for the benefit of the doubt. As I said, whether our opinion is with the majority of the audience, or with minority of the audience, we will never please everyone.

And no, we are in no way assosciated with Grenth's Rejects, I don't even know how that came up, but no, we're not.

mojave mango juice · May 29, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyNilene

And no, we are in no way assosciated with Grenth's Rejects, I don't even know how that came up, but no, we're not.

Thank you

I don't know how that silly rumour came about.

Unlucky Slayer · May 29, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I love it when everyone picks the time that I'm not actually around to do all their pointless flaming... We were done with it days ago. Why the hell does it have to come back now. Cut it out!

Stalker Haras · May 29, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I believe my post was not flame, so therefore I'm reposting it.

Stalkers Tip of the Day to Jaded Stone:

Stop Posting here, you're not helping any.

Caleb Kane · May 29, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

nilene did u get my PM?

Evenstar · May 29, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Hhmm maybe some people here will say that i dont know what im talking about but i personally think that all of you guys shouldnt take this competition so seriosly and remember that after all its just a game and that its just a competition in a game(!). It doesnt effect anyone's life and future (i hope very much that im not wrong here) so there is no need to be sooo carried away with it and absolutely no need to offend and hurt anyone.

Morag D · May 29, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

I like to watch the contest from behind the line and I'm always very much looking forward to the way the contestants deal with their assignments. But reading all this I have only one thing left to say:

LOL???

this is supposed to be fun, isn't it? or did I miss something? everyone is so stubborn on expressing his/her point of view and defending his/her position, it's getting ridiculous

Evenstar · May 29, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

exactly what i said.... i considered entering this competition when cicle two was announced and now im happy that i didnt...because instead of focusing on who should win most of the people here are focused on proving that they have a stronger point....and thats sad....

Noanoa · May 29, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Please swallow your pride and frustration, and just shut up already. There are still several rounds in this contest and I'd like to enjoy them as I did the first ones.

Ember010 · May 29, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noanoa

Please swallow your pride and frustration, and just shut up already. There are still several rounds in this contest and I'd like to enjoy them as I did the first ones.

Likewise over here. All of you who feel the need to express your opinions right now, seem to have saved it all for now. To be totally honest, i don't really give a dam about your opinions, and your right, its not life changing and it doesnt concern you, so unless you have something that is gonna contribute to the fun/enjoyment of this competition, we dont need to hear every recycled observation from the sidelines thankyou. I have reserved posting until now but I'm just fed up.

Edit: And im convinced everyone else is also fed up.

Calluette Hanuette · May 29, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

There should be some seperate thread for all the comments about this... That way those who want to follow the cycle can follow it without having to steamshovel through all the junk. ._.

And what happened to the rule about:

Quote:

Please keep all replies tasteful. Swearing, flaming, crude comments, pointless comments will not be tolerated!

Most of the comments are pointless, some are crude/flaming... >>;
---
On a side-note: Lady Nilene, if you don't want them all to comment about what may happen off-scene, why not tell them about it a bit after the round? That way there are no comments about it afterwards and you wouldn't have to continually shout at the posters about "not knowing what is happening behind the scenes"? Or is what happened during the round somewhat secret, or possibly embarrassing to some of the contestants? If so, mabye you could ask for their permission to post the comments said in the individual e-mails?

Just an idea... >>; Although this post is probably going to get ignored anyway so whatever~ ~.~

Sihaya Syme · May 29, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I like that idea a lot, Caluette

Baibai · May 29, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Just as well the screenshots are posted as thumbnails otherwise I'd sail by them skim reading! Sorry to be yet another lurker crawling out of the woodwork but I guess this is how the internet works (there's safety in numbers, and no matter what the most vocal will not always represent the actual demographic). The bane of fame (or infamy?) is that everyone seems to have an opinion. :P

I also think its funny that most critisims of the judges comments suffer from the same problem - they're are just a general dissatisfied statement with no suggestion for improvement. I think Calluette's idea is pretty good though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calluette Hanuette

On a side-note: Lady Nilene, if you don't want them all to comment about what may happen off-scene, why not tell them about it a bit after the round?

As Nilene has repeatedly said there's much more behind the scenes 'footage' we miss out on - however this content is what made up the majority of an ANTM show. Elimination was, although important, a minimal proportion of what a viewer may see. We dont even get to see the panel discussion before elimination! (Only a couple sentences from each judge and a paragraph from Nilene.) If you intend a 'bare-bones' presentation for fans/lurkers of the competition proceedings thats fine but understand that it may get frustrating that scoring decisions simply aren't as transparent (especially when although a conestant may receive a poor score the comments from judges seem to repeat themselves giving the impression the result is due to an error pointed out 3 times. o_o)

It'd be fun to see a re-cap before the elimination posting or more substantial discussion or suggestions to contestants work (or even ensure that judges comment focuses on different aspects of the picture and only refer to another judge in agreeance/disagreeance), because as cheesey as this comparison is - the shot content may be great but the cropping doesn't manage to reflect it. xD;
As far as learning curve has gone if someone was following outside the competition Jaden's comments have been the most helpful and constructive.

Anyway, sorry for the longwinded-ness but I intend this really to be my only post here (to keep from clutter) so I thought I'd make it count. Back to lurking and good luck to all competition participants alike.
(P.S - hope I dont offend or anything, I just enjoy watching the competition progress as there's some great artistic talent here)

Ember010 · May 29, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Oh dear god we broke it! We broke the forum! nooooooooooo......

(its the only explanation for all the repitition)...
...
...
Fed up ya hear?! -.-

Noanoa · May 29, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

One question about the assignment, is there really no question in it? :D So we don't have to explain the picture or add any captions or anything?

I must say I was a bit "eegh" at first about this assignment (because I'd had it as an illustration homework at school just a month ago >_>), but when I started to take pictures I got really excited, it's nice to take some "bad girl" shots for a change <3.

(edit. fixed some embarrassing typos >_>)

cellardweller · May 30, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

What has happened to this competition is a real shame.