Curse

Faer · Feb 25, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Congratulations. You have done it again. However...

I'd like to take this opportunity to be the first to say that I am not impressed. Just because a team full of shutdown can clear an area, that does not mean a single bar of shutdown is viable in a certain gametype. Naturally, eight Mesmers should be able to, in theory, clear any area of the PvE game, simply because they have the ability to bring eight bars full of almost nothing but enemy shutdown, and if the enemy is completely shut down, the enemy can not do anything. However, this is inefficient, as shutdown can only go so far, and you are much better off bringing a team of various professions to get the job done quicker and easier.

Additionally, what is with this 495HP/50E nonsense? I smell superior runes and other such deplorable equipment choices.

fenix · Feb 25, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

That's called 'bad players' Faer. Using Radiant insignias and Sup runes...

I like that the heroes have 60 DP, I guess it didn't go as well as you expected, what with 8 shut down characters that can COMPLETELY stop all FoW monsters from doing anything. Owait...guess they didn't.

Shanaeri Rynale · Feb 25, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

ROFL at the above comments.

It was run to play with non of this PvE skills, consumables stuff and it felt like the way GW used to play pre Sorrows Furnace.

I never claimed it was efficient, only that it was effective(meaning it can get the job done).

Quote:

It was fantastic to see just how effective shutdown, interupts and denial is in PvE and how much pressure it can take away from the team. People claim the mesmer is not effective in PvE, I maintain it is effective(it might not be the fastest, easiest to play or 'optimal) and hopefully this goes some of the way to demonstrating that the mesmer still has a place in GW PvE.

If people want fast, run ursan or somesuch broken build. Use PvE skills and consumables to the max etc etc. But for me, the challenge of running broken skills has gotten stale, and is requiring less and less skill to play. Ofc when we feel like playing GW shoot em up thats fine and great, but sometimes it's nice to get back to how things used to be.

Common sense says mixed professions will be more efficient. Thats why Anet put them there =p

Yup 8 people can take all shutdown skills, but they will be there a long time as whats supposed to kill the mobs? Boredom I presume - lol.

As for the runes and equipment comment thats so funny and riduclous it's not really worth a comment on. Well maybe one. You only saw one screenie and one snapshot, so you assumed we ran the same runes and insignia all the time. You assumed wrong. Often because of degen and hexes, running sups would be suicide so armor was swapped in and out as seen fit.

I await Fenix's and Faer's mesmer exploits with baited breath. Want to come with us next time, i'm sure the two Gwens we had would'nt mind missing out?

Hailfall · Feb 25, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Wow or you just say nothing.

People do those things for fun, and nothing else. Why else would you do that? Making a Full <insert class> team is something you do if you want to have some fun.. and if you dont make it all the way trough then what gives?

edit: this was ofcourse aimed at Fenix and Faer..

Faer · Feb 26, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Oh wow, I was mostly aiming my paragraph at the people who rushed in to say "OMG MESMERS RLY R LEET". It wasn't really in direct response to the feat that was being discussed, but rather at those who would make it out to be more than what it actually was. Sorry for any misunderstandings there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

so you assumed we ran the same runes and insignia all the time. You assumed wrong.

You assumed one, or both of us (being Fenix and myself, I suppose), was assuming something. You assumed wrong. I merely asked a question. You could have merely supplied an answer to the question, rather than getting defensive about it. But, I suppose, if one is not praising you, one is attacking you. Of course, the fact still remains that you carry equipment with you that is runed/insig'd/inscribed poorly. You shouldn't really need to do that, and I'd appreciate it if you could explain why you choose to bring sub-par equipment with you. Perhaps if I saw the reasoning and logic behind the need for you to have less than 600 health and more than 35 energy at any given time...

As to me filling out one of your Hero spots, I don't think I'll take you up on that offer. As much as I enjoy taking my own Mesmer out for walks, I don't think I'd be very comfortable running the bars you would probably request I run, or spending any more than an hour clearing FoW. Besides, World of Warcraft... Well, you know.

Maybe some other time, though. Feel free to ask me the next time you have a free slot open for whatever you decide to do next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailfall

Wow or you just say nothing.

Yes, because naturally, the Universal Law is to give praise or shut up. Clearly, criticism is a horrendous evil that must be smitten from the face of the forums. I'll be sure to take note of that. Thanks.

draxynnic · Feb 26, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

What he means is... what the mesmers ran where just subpar versions of what other professions can do. For example FC nukers are alright, but ele nukers are better. A profession is usually meant to stick to most of it's skills and venture to their secondary profession for use of 2-3 skills. If you're primarily using your secondary skills you're only playing a subpar build. That said, it's possible to clear out FoW/UW etc with an all mesmer team, all ele team, all derv team, all paragon team, etc. You're just losing out on efficiency if you do so.

That, and when you stick to the Mesmer's own skillset (shutdown and to a lesser extent degen) there are other builds that can shutdown or degen mobs far more effectively than a Mesmer. Some of them dip into Mesmer for Epidemic and/or Echo/Arcane Echo.

(And actually, while previous Mesmer-only runs have worked in this manner - Mesmers acting as fast-cast this or fast-cast that or IllusWeap tanks - Shan did specifically say that the group was restricting itself to Mesmer skills only for these runs.)

mrmango · Feb 26, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Well bad or not, at least they look good. But yea they're bad too.

Shanaeri Rynale · Feb 26, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Oh wow, I was mostly aiming my paragraph at the people who rushed in to say "OMG MESMERS RLY R LEET". It wasn't really in direct response to the feat that was being discussed, but rather at those who would make it out to be more than what it actually was.

Quote:

Sorry for any misunderstandings there.You assumed one, or both of us (being Fenix and myself, I suppose), was assuming something. You assumed wrong. I merely asked a question. You could have merely supplied an answer to the question, rather than getting defensive about it. But, I suppose, if one is not praising you, one is attacking you. Of course, the fact still remains that you carry equipment with you that is runed/insig'd/inscribed poorly. You shouldn't really need to do that, and I'd appreciate it if you could explain why you choose to bring sub-par equipment with you. Perhaps if I saw the reasoning and logic behind the need for you to have less than 600 health and more than 35 energy at any given time...

If my reply sounded like an attack, sorry. It was supposed to be light hearted and not aimed at anyone in particular(like yours). I guess we both jumped to the same conclusions.. Oh well the joys of expressionless text..

As I mentioned in the post above. We carried and used a whole load of different armor and weapon configurations. Like most players I carry a normal, high and low energy weapon sets, as well as different armor types(radiant, survivor, etc etc) so it's really a case of using what's best for that moment in time.

600HP, high and low energy sets and no sups is pretty much mandatory in PvP, and in the rare occasions I do PvP I always spec my pvp char to match that.

In PvE where armor,headgear etc switches are allowed and the threats you face more controllable and predictable(pvp does'nt tend to let you run away, regen and go back again) then it makes sense to maximise the versitility, effects and survivability of your charatcer.

For example, very often monks swap in then swap out a sup rune to maximise the length of spellbreaker, rangers and rits to increase the level of spirits they cast and ele's to improve the wards they put down. Thats not running bad runes or equipment, thats just playing smart. This is the main reason I have so few spare inventory slots

it's all taken up with different armor and weapon sets.

The main reason i've seen nowadays for people to run 600+HP and the main reason why survivor insignia have shot up in price is'nt because they've 'seen the light' and are running PvP style configs but it's because of the desire to have super powered HP while using Ursan.

I'd rather have a player who knew when and where to use xyz armor set, runes, or weapons than one that blindlly used the same set for every place and circumstances. Different playstyles I guess.

Quote:

As to me filling out one of your Hero spots, I don't think I'll take you up on that offer. As much as I enjoy taking my own Mesmer out for walks, I don't think I'd be very comfortable running the bars you would probably request I run, or spending any more than an hour clearing FoW. Besides, World of Warcraft... Well, you know.

We'll be trying to do the UW in a similar way soon, tho the 4 horsemen and ice king quests may prove to be a little too much so i'm still working on that one. I know I can tank one side of 4HM with no spellbreaker, and 1 monk topping up my health and using PvE skills but without em, dunno..

As for skill bars Actually it's less prescribed than that. I usually just request a type, e.g Anti-melee and leave the bar up to the person. We'll then check for overlaps(good or bad) and make sure there are no glaring omissions. My usual approach is lets try it, see what works and what does'nt.

I do understand about the time thing, I guess WoW would suck up more than it's fare share of spare time.

Quote:

Maybe some other time, though. Feel free to ask me the next time you have a free slot open for whatever you decide to do next. Yes, because naturally, the Universal Law is to give praise or shut up. Clearly, criticism is a horrendous evil that must be smitten from the face of the forums. I'll be sure to take note of that. Thanks.

I guess we got our wires crossed. It happens.

Anyway ideas, suggestions welcome on how to do the same thing to the UW, and especially Mallyx. I really want to kill Mallyx all mesmer(no Ursans etc allowed) that would be a real challenge..

Something also worth a mention maybe, is i'm not on some GW holy crusade to prove mesmers are OMG LEET. I know they have some significant limitations in PvE, what keeps me playing and challenged is looking at these limitations and finding ways around them. Instead of saying Mesmers cant do this or that, I ask myself Why not? and how can we get this or that to work some other way. I've done the same with other professions too, I guess it's boundary pushing I enjoy..

If I want an easy ride I play my paragon, or the 8 other profession chars I have. If I want fun, and a challenge I play Mesmer. This is just me though, your mileage may vary.

Zamochit · Feb 26, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I really like what has been achieved here. It was never about being efficient, fast or safe. It was about a challenge, utilising a full team of a highly underappreciated class (in PvE at least), to take on one of the supposedly "Elite" areas of Guildwars.

There must have been very good team coordination to do this with a pure mesmer group, especially considering the disconnect.

Congratulations and good luck with UW ~ I doubt mallyx is viable though. ...

[DE] · Feb 26, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

Congratulations and good luck with UW ~ I doubt mallyx is viable though. ...

Okay now I'm going to have to ask for everyone to take out their customized 15^50 wands....

Faer · Feb 26, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

I really want to kill Mallyx all mesmer

lawl

[skill]echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Spiritual Pain[/skill]

Have fun with that.

RTSFirebat · Feb 26, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Ok thanks for the show - think the thread has overrun its purpose now. If this was the build forums it could continue, but here we ask for Screenshots, so going to close.

Always good to see mesmers put to good use.