Curse

VoltWolf · Jul 19, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

NEW PICTURE

Meh, sketches+Photoshop works I've done using screenshots and such
from GW.

P.S More to be added soon.
Most Recent-
1.http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4...ss1copyru8.png
2.http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2...in2copydx7.png
3.http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4...photoshdg7.png
4.
5.

Sketches-

Photoshop Work-

Dervish-1-http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4...photoshdg7.png

Demon Warrior-1-http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9...roundcors8.png

Angels-1-http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5...go1copyck4.png

-Dancing For Rain-http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2...in2copydx7.png

!!NEW!!-Beyond Abyss-http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4...ss1copyru8.png

Gift3d · Jul 20, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

You should really look at some photoshop tutorials online. They'll teach you how to do very basic things such as how to render images and stuff.

But uhh.. i like the background in the dervish pic. Did you make that?

RavenGT · Jul 20, 2008, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

But uhh.. i like the background in the dervish pic. Did you make that?

The background basically looks like the default Photoshop "chrome" gradient preset. One's piece is flawed when one can pick apart and decompose your work. No hate, just giving a useful tip.

VoltWolf · Jul 20, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Yes I know. It is the default chrome backround from Photoshop.
I liked it alot and decided to use it. It's not made by me and the
credit goes to Adobe. The floral brushes and whatever aren't made
by me either I just used them. The pictures of the dervish I configured
,and whatever.

lakatz · Jul 20, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenGT

...One's piece is flawed when one can pick apart and decompose your work. No hate, just giving a useful tip.

Not true in the least. Art is completely subjective. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Flaws are in the eyes of the beholder. It's one of the easiest things in the world to judge/criticize another person's art. It's just not a very wise thing to do. It's okay to know and say what you like and dislike, but to put your likes and dislikes out there as a standard is not okay. Van Gogh, Degas, Picasso, Rembrandt, etc have all had their work criticized. Someone once said to me about one of my paintings, "It has too much emotion in it." Since art is a way for me to express emotion, I was ecstatic. I knew him and knew he was afraid of his own emotions, so I just threw the judgment part (too much) in the verbage trash.

Voltwolf... From what I've seen it looks like you have a lot of imagination and are having fun in PS. Great start. Art is one those wonderful pursuits you can continue to grow in. So is PS. Enjoy!

Tzu · Jul 20, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I second lakatz opinions on this matter.

VoltWolf · Jul 24, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Not true in the least. Art is completely subjective. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Flaws are in the eyes of the beholder. It's one of the easiest things in the world to judge/criticize another person's art. It's just not a very wise thing to do. It's okay to know and say what you like and dislike, but to put your likes and dislikes out there as a standard is not okay. Van Gogh, Degas, Picasso, Rembrandt, etc have all had their work criticized. Someone once said to me about one of my paintings, "It has too much emotion in it." Since art is a way for me to express emotion, I was ecstatic. I knew him and knew he was afraid of his own emotions, so I just threw the judgment part (too much) in the verbage trash.

Voltwolf... From what I've seen it looks like you have a lot of imagination and are having fun in PS. Great start. Art is one those wonderful pursuits you can continue to grow in. So is PS. Enjoy!

Thank you, I appreciate your comment lakatz

Sab · Jul 24, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Not true in the least. Art is completely subjective. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Flaws are in the eyes of the beholder. It's one of the easiest things in the world to judge/criticize another person's art. It's just not a very wise thing to do. It's okay to know and say what you like and dislike, but to put your likes and dislikes out there as a standard is not okay. Van Gogh, Degas, Picasso, Rembrandt, etc have all had their work criticized. Someone once said to me about one of my paintings, "It has too much emotion in it." Since art is a way for me to express emotion, I was ecstatic. I knew him and knew he was afraid of his own emotions, so I just threw the judgment part (too much) in the verbage trash.

Voltwolf... From what I've seen it looks like you have a lot of imagination and are having fun in PS. Great start. Art is one those wonderful pursuits you can continue to grow in. So is PS. Enjoy!

For an artist, criticism is the best thing in the world. While it's easy to dismiss flaws by pulling out the subjective card, the artist needs to seriously consider all criticism if he wants to improve.

My advice to Voltwolf is to look at professionally-made wallpapers and aim for that quality of work.

Widowmaker · Jul 25, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

For an artist, criticism is the best thing in the world. While it's easy to dismiss flaws by pulling out the subjective card, the artist needs to seriously consider all criticism if he wants to improve.

But one also has to be careful that you do not fall into the trap of trying to please all critics. You need to be careful in assessing and sorting technical criticism from that born of personal preference.

lakatz · Jul 25, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

But one also has to be careful that you do not fall into the trap of trying to please all critics. You need to be careful in assessing and sorting technical criticism from that born of personal preference.

Exactly... and many of the criticisms I've seen in this forum are more uninformed or neurotic than anything else (and that includes a criticism I read of Sab's work).

My talent is only mediocre. I know that. But it doesn't matter to me. I draw and paint and sculpt because I enjoy it. I create for me, and I have no need whatsoever for anyone's opinion of my work. Especially not the opinion of people who strive for perfection in their own work. What a waste of talent and effort the pursuit of perfection is. If and when, however, I want constructive instruction I take classes from qualified and talented teachers.

The first time I picked up a pencil as an adult... late 1970s - early 80s... no classes.

The first time I played with color as an adult...early 1980s... I started with oils in the glaze method... no classes. I have a larger image of this but it's either on an old hard drive or one of a gazillion CDs, and I haven't been motivated to take the considerable time to look.

My first painting class project... mid-1990s... it was an Impressionist techniques class and for our first project we copied work from one of the Impressionist/Post Impressionist artists. Obviously mine was by Renoir. This painting is much better than my first for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that it has beautiful human flaws. And most importantly because I'd grown from when I first returned to art as an adult. I've grown in the many years since this, and I'll continue to grow until the day I either go blind or die. No doubt so will VoltWolf.

Interestingly enough it's the people who strive for perfection (rather than expression) who are the quickest to criticize. And interestingly enough criticism can be a tool for self-awareness... because when we're finding fault in others it's really all about ourselves. We criticize others when we're feeling a lack of trust in ourselves.

Sab · Jul 25, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

But one also has to be careful that you do not fall into the trap of trying to please all critics. You need to be careful in assessing and sorting technical criticism from that born of personal preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Exactly... and many of the criticisms I've seen in this forum are more uninformed or neurotic than anything else (and that includes a criticism I read of Sab's work).

Yes, as I said to "consider", not to accept everything face value. There's useful criticism and useless criticism, but as long as it's aiming to be constructive, it deserves a response and it gets you thinking about your own work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

My talent is only mediocre. I know that. But it doesn't matter to me. I draw and paint and sculpt because I enjoy it. I create for me, and I have no need whatsoever for anyone's opinion of my work. Especially not the opinion of people who strive for perfection in their own work. What a waste of talent and effort the pursuit of perfection is. If and when, however, I want constructive instruction I take classes from qualified and talented teachers.

If you're producing work for yourself and you're happy with it, then good for you, I can't argue against that. But if one is to share their work with others, then criticism is to be expected. Ignoring this, regardless of who it's from, seems like arrogance and the unwillingness to improve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Interestingly enough it's the people who strive for perfection (rather than expression) who are the quickest to criticize. And interestingly enough criticism can be a tool for self-awareness... because when we're finding fault in others it's really all about ourselves. We criticize others when we're feeling a lack of trust in ourselves.

With regards to destructive criticism (e.g. "you're terrible"), I agree. However, good criticism doesn't take that approach at all. They're driven by the desire to express their own opinions, or to help the artist improve, or some other non-derogatory reason. I don't see anything bad about criticism that does not aim to attack the artist.

Widowmaker · Jul 25, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Yes, as I said to "consider", not to accept everything face value. There's useful criticism and useless criticism, but as long as it's aiming to be constructive, it deserves a response and it gets you thinking about your own work.

A little ironic, is it not, that my point was only made to highlight and elaborate on your point, for the sake of a new artist, yet you felt it was a criticism of your point and went on to defend yourself?

I could get a group of ten people I know, all with varying artistic backgrounds and we could all pass comment on one of your pictures and make constructive criticisms. All would be valid but many of them would directly contradict each other, who do you follow? Or do you decide that your style and what you wanted to create is more important? Who are you creating your art for, the audience or yourself?

The more your technique as an artist improves, the harder it becomes to sort truly useful advice from personal preferences unless you are imitating life. Your recent portrait is easy to pass constructive criticism on, we all know what he looks like and as a realistic image was your aim you have an image to reference and say X is wrong etc.

But what of your Goth girl picture? Do I make technical criticisms on skin tones, details, and lightning? Or do I take the picture as what it is and what it shows as your style because it conveys a scene and a mood admirably? You could certainly produce a "better" technical painting, you could sit down and attempt to make it look like a photograph for true realism if you really desired.

But that is a radically different painting, a different style.

If she had an arm protruding from her ear, and assuming you as an artist wanted somewhat realistic anatomy, we can feel free to pass a technical criticism, but what about the stonework above her? It certainly is but an impression of stonework, your own style comes to fore and suggests stonework from what we know of the picture but it is but a blob of colour. So where do our technical criticisms sit now?

What others say is not all that important, what you want as an artist from your work is. If you love the work of, for example, Jason Engle, and wish to reach a similar level then that is your benchmark, not some random person who has a preference for the works of Boris Vallejo.

lakatz · Jul 25, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Yes, as I said to "consider", not to accept everything face value. There's useful criticism and useless criticism, but as long as it's aiming to be constructive, it deserves a response and it gets you thinking about your own work.

If you're producing work for yourself and you're happy with it, then good for you, I can't argue against that. But if one is to share their work with others, then criticism is to be expected. Ignoring this, regardless of who it's from, seems like arrogance and the unwillingness to improve.

With regards to destructive criticism (e.g. "you're terrible"), I agree. However, good criticism doesn't take that approach at all. They're driven by the desire to express their own opinions, or to help the artist improve, or some other non-derogatory reason. I don't see anything bad about criticism that does not aim to attack the artist.

To create for oneself is not about not sharing with others. It means to let it happen... let it flow... without the thought of what others will think. And from my own experience, after I finish a piece I always find things I want to do differently in the next painting or drawing... and yes, I'm still happy with it. I wouldn't change a thing about it. It's all about loving oneself, one's work and others with all their weaknesses as well as their strengths. People who have a need to criticize others don't understand that.

Okay... I'll just spit it out here... the need to criticize is part and parcel of the need for control, and the need for control is driven by a lack of self-trust... it's all driven on a subconscious level. And no I don't feed into criticism particularly not unsolicited criticism as you received in your thread.

As I said previously, it's okay to express your likes and dislikes... constructive feedback is never put out there as 'the standard.' It always comes with "I like, I don't like, I believe, I think, I feel or some inference that you're expressing your own views.

Quick reference here...

When I worked in management training (about the time I painted the gymnast painting), we taught people there are four basic modes of communication... from most to least desirable they are...

Empathetic - "I can feel your expression in that work"
Questioning - "Why did you use that color for the hair?"
Advising - "You really should take an art class"
Critical (criticism) - "That arm isn't foreshortened enough... that leg looks detached."

When a subject engaged in the last two styles of communication which are tools of control (easier to control people when their self-esteem has been whittled away), we recommended 'therapy' couched as communication skills courses.

All said, I think we're both basically on the same page... I think we've said the same thing basically just from different points of understanding.

"Do what you want and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Sab · Jul 25, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker

A little ironic, is it not, that my point was only made to highlight and elaborate on your point, for the sake of a new artist, yet you felt it was a criticism of your point and went on to defend yourself?

Isn't it even more ironic that I started by agreeing with you, and similarly went on to elaborate your point, and yet you assumed I was "defending myself"?

As for which criticisms to follow, I'd have to consider every one of them to see whether or not I agree, and I'd offer reasons as to why or why not. I'm developing my own style, as artists do, and if I had to make a general rule on which comments to follow, it would be ones that fit within this vision. Anatomy, likeness, colours, values, composition and so forth, are very important for me, whereas pixel-perfect photorealism is not. I aim for a loose style in speedpaints, so criticism on one misplaced pixel is not exactly useful, while criticism on the other qualities I mentioned would be beneficial.

I aim to be at least as skilled than the artists I study, and so far, I'm not even close. However, welcoming criticism from different points of view, whether I agree with them or not, will get me there faster than if I shut my ears to anyone with a comment on my work. After all, constructive criticism is not meant to be offensive, so what's the harm in hearing what people have to say?

Sab · Jul 25, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

To create for oneself is not about not sharing with others. It means to let it happen... let it flow... without the thought of what others will think. And from my own experience, after I finish a piece I always find things I want to do differently in the next painting or drawing... and yes, I'm still happy with it. I wouldn't change a thing about it. It's all about loving oneself, one's work and others with all their weaknesses as well as their strengths. People who have a need to criticize others don't understand that.

As I understand, you're arguing from the point of view of art purely as self expression, to which I agree with all you've written. One might as well criticize an artist on his looks or personality, rather than a piece the artist did for himself.

But from the point of view of self improvement, criticism is invaluable as I think you'll agree, I think we only differ on whose criticism to acknowledge.

Widowmaker · Jul 25, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Isn't it even more ironic that I started by agreeing with you, and similarly went on to elaborate your point, and yet you assumed I was "defending myself"?

I would hardly call saying "I said to "consider", not to accept everything face value" as an agreement, rather it seems an explanation based on the premise that I didn't fully understand your original post. But this is somewhat off the point.

All this started as is a warning to beware being pulled in too many directions. This post was not about you as an artist, or your style, it was supposed to be advice for the original poster. You, quite evidently, are comfortable with your style and seemingly find it easy to differentiate between what you want feedback on and what you don't, someone who is less confident in their style may well find themselves being pulled in too many directions if they take all advice onboard.

lakatz · Jul 26, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

...But from the point of view of self improvement, criticism is invaluable as I think you'll agree, I think we only differ on whose criticism to acknowledge.

Yes again we're on the same page. We're both discerning.

The only difference I see really is semantics. You frequently use the word criticism, and I avoid it for all things positive out of personal preference. My reason is really quite simple. Although down it's list of definitions (at about #3) it is defined as the act or art of analyzing and evaluating literature or art, it still says "judging" and all the other definitions including the most preferred call it "judging" or "passing judgment." I really prefer feedback that isn't judgmental... so I avoid words that imply it. Judgment again is a control tool, and, as much as I empathize with them, I just don't like dealing with other people's control needs.

For all things I consider positive and helpful... such as discussions where people put forth their personal preference or benefit of their education and/or experience... without judgment... I prefer words like feedback, input, instruction, etc. Again... a personal choice... nothing more.

Btw, I do believe you and Widowmaker are actually on the same page as well. I re-read what she wrote... again I liked it a lot, and what you said in response was really the same thing.

On another note on the same subject, I'm excited that I've been invited to volunteer for a very worthy organization called A Window Between Worlds that seeks to help battered women and children heal through art. On 8.7 they're holding an Open House and special viewing of art created in a project they call "The Monster in Me" designed to help victims deal with the feelings instilled by their abusers. The work is very moving, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the exhibit. They sell some of the artwork in different formats including sets of cards and many of them are really quite striking. Just click on "shop" in the top menu bar to find them. Your purchase will help fund a worthy cause.

VoltWolf · Aug 05, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Mmph, while I've been inactive, I guess its gotten more views and whatever.

Anyways, I would love to have more talent in art and whatever.
If someone doesn't like what I am currently capable of producing,
and leave some sort of criticism that just says something like

"You suck, just stop".

I could barely care on what there opinion is since all there doing is
to bring me down. I'm a beginner with Photoshop ,and I'm learning
more by using Photoshop. That's what matters to me.

People have the freedom to speak out, and give their own opinion.
Whether they like it or not, it's there opinion.

lakatz · Aug 06, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoltWolf

Mmph, while I've been inactive, I guess its gotten more views and whatever.

Anyways, I would love to have more talent in art and whatever.
If someone doesn't like what I am currently capable of producing,
and leave some sort of criticism that just says something like

"You suck, just stop".

I could barely care on what there opinion is since all there doing is
to bring me down. I'm a beginner with Photoshop ,and I'm learning
more by using Photoshop. That's what matters to me.

People have the freedom to speak out, and give their own opinion.
Whether they like it or not, it's there opinion.

I just now saw your new one. It shows a lot of growth over the previous images. I think it's more artistic... it has balance, movement, soul. I like it. Thanks...

VoltWolf · Aug 07, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

I just now saw your new one. It shows a lot of growth over the previous images. I think it's more artistic... it has balance, movement, soul. I like it. Thanks...

Thank you. Glad you liked it