Curse

Charlie Dayman · Nov 03, 2009, 06:33 AM // 06:33

This is actually a pretty interesting thread. Nice to read everyone's background and opinion on the matter.

Carry on.

Duranin · Nov 03, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

This is like a revised version of this thread except with less advanced/technical jargon and a more inclusive atmosphere. I approve.

Carry on.

Charlie Dayman · Nov 03, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Ah, thanks for the heads up, Araiia.

Carry on.

Tommy's · Nov 03, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I thought I could help a little bit as I'm a starter myself. I just started drawing this month. My mother is a amateur painter and once she wanted a mail model so I posed for her. And then I went all correcting her, and she told me I had talent for shapes, so I thought I'd give drawing a go.
I think if you want to go draw you should have a good eye for ratio. Also you need to be creative. When I go to bed, I most of the time come up with 1-5 things I want to draw the next day, but that is where I find out I got no time for that

Anyway I think it's talent for the basics, cause with only talent you don't get very far. You need to practice, so you get more experience at what happens if you draw what line

My advice for you is go draw for a month, draw alot, try different things and if you like it/goes well, keep doing it. If it keeps sucky, it's possible you aren't made for art, maybe your next weeks soccer proffessional

I can't say all this too certain as I'm just a starter myself, but I believe that it would be like this

Also I advice you to start drawing by hand, computer is alot of difference, drawing is more natural cause you do it your whole life, so might be easier to start with.

Hope it helped

Gwee · Nov 03, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Q. Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved?

I used to really enjoy drawing and art in schools so I guess I went home to practice. I wasn't that good maybe a little better than the average in the class which soon changed when I didn't pick up a pencil properly until high school. I started again getting into art in 2005, I even invested in my first graphics tablet.

Improvement certainly takes lots of work but it's SO worth it. I look back at my old stuff and think I've grown so well. Later I'll gather so of my (embarrassing) old work with some of my newer stuff and I'll post it in here.

Q. What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

Be inspired, start off drawing things you have a real passion for, that when if it starts to turn sour. You'll have the patience and drive to correct and complete it.

Q. What mediums do you guys use.

Used to use charcoal/pencil when I started out. Moved onto digital (photoshop + Wacom) when saw I was there was no mess involved and you could get professional results. I was awe struck by some of the digital artists.

Q. Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

Photoshop is my proffered program as I've used it all along. I sometimes wish I had used Corel painter as that has some wonderful results. I just don't have the patience to learn a new program and work flow. Give that a go.
I also recommend art rage for messing about in, it gives a very rough look.

Q. Do you have any good websites/programs that you find to helpful in improving art skills?

Yes! The best thing you can do is find an art forum with like minded people. For critique and moral.

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 07:58 AM // 07:58

the only thing painter has over PS is the rotatable canvas.

Gwee · Nov 03, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

the only thing painter has over PS is the rotatable canvas.

Didn't know that feature, that sounds cool. Might stop some people craning their necks!
I like the real feel of all the tools in painter. I know photoshop has custom brushes but nothing quite to painters effect. :<

BlueXIV · Nov 03, 2009, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Forward

I debated with myself on whether to do this or not, but I thought it would be in the best interest of the OP to post. I apologize beforehand for all the people that I offend with this post. I don't mean to exclude anyone or inflate my epeen; I just want to offer my views.

On the practice of art

While I believe there is nothing preventing a person from being a master of fine art except motivation, there is definitely a right way to practice. For a starting artist, I believe lineart, digital art, ctrl z, or even things like pen/ink and markers, stylization or cartoons are bad.

I do not mean this in general. I actually enjoy a lot of the things I have just listed in general, and some of my favorite artists have stylized drawings.

It is just that all these things teach nothing about volume or mass, light and dark, composition and design. With all these things, you tend to focus on the character or subject, and them alone. It is easy to get trapped into a circle of no improvement where you are just drawing the same things over and over again because you are too scared to deviate from your "style."

It might be that introducing background is too hard for you because you never learned to do it in the first place. It might be that your figures look awkward because all you learned is stylization without understanding how the human body work (I have a lot of struggles with this myself). It might be that everything you draw looks flat because you never really learned how light interacts with objects or the physical basis for speculars and core shadows.

A mastery of the basics is the building blocks of good art no matter what the style is. All the decent animators, manga artists, cartoonists have a firm grasp of realism should they ever choose to do so. I have a friend in Pixar, and he told me that when the place picks new artists for their design team, they don't look at all for all the characters or cartoony stuff you have in your portfolio, they look for good old traditional figure drawing and paintings because that demonstrates to them you know your BASICS. A style is easily learned, but the basics are not.

On sampling artists

I do agree with the posts above about stalking some favorite artists, but you should be careful about who you look for in your first stages of learning about art. A lot of people are great artists, but the fact that they use styles that are pretty out there, it's hard to learn basic concepts from their art.

I know a lot of people who have maybe read a bad tutorial or tried off the bat to learn a caricaturized style and really have not improved much in maybe two years. All the "draw manga!" tutorials and such out there are quick and dirty ways to get something that resembles the popular styles, but they learn nothing of muscles or skeletal structure. So whenever there is a complex pose or anything, they flail around trying to guess what should go where.

On drawing from life

Drawing from life might be the single best tool in an aspiring artist's arsenal to become better. I know I don't do enough of it for sure. Everything you draw gets added to your mental encyclopedia of objects to use for later drawings. If you can draw from life and study exactly how it is formed in reality, you can distort that however you want in subsequent drawings. If you have an image of the truth in your head, no matter how much you distort it; it still holds the feeling of the object. If you have an image of an image because you were copying someone else's art, you just get farther and farther from an object, sometimes rendering something unrecognizable after a few repetitions.

Drawing from life also teaches many things about color theory and value. If I were to teach an art class, the first maybe 2-3 classes (around a month actually if I had my way), would be completely and totally devoted to drawing eggs. Yes eggs. I would try to get my students to study exactly how light interacts with the egg, and how to construct an egg in three dimensions using direct light, diffuse light, and reflected light. Oh and I would not have them use anything like pen or even pencil, but rather charcoal or chalk. Force them to forget about lines and such, and focus on creating mass. The students would all hate me for it, but I firmly believe that it would give them a much easier time in the future.

On composition and details

I've argued my stance on composition with a friend last night, and I guess I'll just summarize it here. Learning composition might be the single most important thing if you want to paint. EVERYTHING matters in composition. Shapes, motion, details, colors, values, all these things are only design elements that can potentially aid composition. I think too many starting artists have been sucked into details, and ignored the composition of a piece as a whole. Details are meant to support a composition. Always ask yourself this when you are working on details: "is this necessary? does it make my piece stronger? does it focus my piece?" If you answered no to any of that, chances are leaving out those details is a good idea.

Always take spot checks zoomed out or far away. If something looks awkward, fix it early. Composition is the major culprit of awkward looking art. It's not something that can be learned very easily, but rather requires experimenting, doing self checks, and looking at great artists that have dynamic pieces.

On Styles

I have touched upon this in all the other sections, but I thought I'd crystallize it here because it is important. Styles are great. If everyone painted the same way, I'd be bored out of my mind. But having a style to start can really hinder your progress. Bottom line: have a piece done in at least mild realism that you are satisfied with before starting to stylize, and return to some realism once in a while to keep yourself honest.

Conclusion

Sorry about this TL;DR post. It kind of turned from a response into this rant about the practice of art. This post was not meant to offend anybody, it was just merely my views on what I see as common mistakes that cost new artists years of their time. Please remember, at the end of the day, I'm just another personality on the internet, and I'm by no means a master, so you should take my advice with a grain of salt.

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

i agree with Blue on most counts, but i think for some people shooting for realism can be abit daunting. realism is much more difficult technically compared to more stylised forms of art where u have tons of leeway.

i think as an aspiring artist, you should look around at the forms of art that inspire you. i slept with a art of star wars book under my pillow many years ago. it was the first thing i looked at in the morning, last thing at nite.

If it is manga you like, i think that is cool but look at the best manga artists for inspiration. look at what they do that makes it look so good to you.

Art is a mix of technical skill coupled with vision and drive. There are many tool masteries that you have to acquire and it is a never ending journey. i agree on Blue's emphasis on technical basics being of utmost importance but at the same time you need to keep it enjoyable for urself. Go for what u like the most, but don't poo poo things like basic construction and anatomy because it makes ur art more believable.

Whatever it is ur doing, making sure u have a damn good time doing it.

Morag D · Nov 03, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

Whatever it is ur doing, making sure u have a damn good time doing it.

yup. agreed. and let's face it: if you've read all this, and still want to give it a go, JUST DO IT! be prepared to be rubbish at first, and that things don't turn out the way you want them to. happens to all of us

My dad is the creative half of my parents, he used to draw and paint a lot when he was younger. My mum can't draw a stick figure to save her life, and wouldn't even be mad at me for saying so. As for me, creativity has always been a big part of me, be it in drawing, painting, building, flower arrangements, room design/decoration, gift wrappings, laying the table, down to the way I write my (oldschool) letters [I have a personal seal, and wax and stuff for proper win]. I can't do things the ordinary way. Can be a curse if you tend to leave things to the last minute and then freak out over the freaking ribbon you bought because it isn't the freaking same shade of blue as the stripes on the freaking paper. Creativity is something that's constantly bubbling somewhere inside me, with more or less energetic outbreaks at irregular intervals. But it is always there.

I believe that technical skills can be aquired, to a certain point, through hard practice, determination and enthusiasm. But for a piece to be special, to be something that wows other people, I think you do need some talent. A feel for shapes, colours, general aesthetics. To be inspired by other people's art, and learn from it in a constructive way. I think you're the only one that can decide whether you've got that talent, and what you want to make of it. Go and try out different techniques, find something that you like, and practice. practice. practice. And guess what: it helps! Art is not about talking about it. It's about DOING!

I don't have a set style. I do abstract this week and semi-realistic the next, with some comic and photography to round it off. Which means that I will never be distinguished or recognisable in a certain field, but on the other hand will never get bored. I love to experiment, and to do stuff I like (and to hell with popularity and general trends). I listen to constructive critique, and look at looooads of other people's art.

When I'm working digitally, I use Photoshop and a graphic tablet (but that is really only of any use if you know how to draw stuff in the first place tbh). As for traditional media, I seem to be a pencil person. I also generally prefer drawing over painting.

I'm practicing portraits at the moment (not as much as I would like because I have a very busy life), and I'll give you an example of progress (in the order they are in my sketchbook):

...

some examples from a period of around 3-4 months of (very) irregular practice. It can be done, methinks

Minami · Nov 03, 2009, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Were you guys born with a talent for drawing or did you start off terrible and gradually improved? In other words, is drawing an inherited or learned trait?

Everybody has to learn a lot. With that said, some people can learn things easier than others. For one person it might take a lot shorter time to learn correct posing and lighting than for the other. It's almost like learning a new language.

What tips do you have for someone like me that is interested in creating his own masterpieces.

Practice, practice, practice. Don't be discouraged if your first drawings don't look exactly the way you imagined it. It takes a while for your hands to be able to create what your mind envisions.

Imagination is very important... I mean, how intense your imagination is. A good test for that is this... Read the following, then close your eyes and try your best to imagine what you read (if you don't like oranges, then try it with lemon or something

):
You have a nice, big, juicy orange in front of you.
You start peeling it, and smell the scent of the orange.
Without pulling the slices apart, you take a huge bite out of it.

If your mouth started to water like crazy and you can almost smell the orange, your imagination is very strong, and you can see pictures very clear in your mind. That's a very good thing when you want to create your own art.

What mediums do you guys use. Pencil and paper, digital, etc.

I use DAZ Studio for my 3D scenes setup.

Building on the last questions, what programs do you guys use in retouching your art. I have photo shop because I need it for the website creation but what else do you recommend?

I use GIMP, together with my trusty Wacom Bamboo

*I know, I'm a sucker for good free programs

*

Do you have any good websites/programs that you find to helpful in improving art skills?

I usually tinker with program setting to see what they do, and if I like the result, I remember it.

I used to read 3D World for tips on more advanced things like subsurface scattering and such, but after I learned that, there was no need for me to buy it.

You should choose a medium that you feel most comfortable with. It might take a little time for you to discover what it is you like the best.

Now a little diversion into the world of 3D...

Bear with me if you will

3D is very different than traditional art, and some people might say that 3D is so much easier to do. There are some serious trade offs between the two art styles.

For example, in 3D it's almost impossible to get body proportions and posing wrong, since you're spinning dials to pose an already made figure, while in drawing you have to spend a lot of time perfecting the way the bodyparts look in the pose you're thinking of.

However, in surfaces and lighting, while drawing, you draw textures and highlights, you draw glass see through and such (I'm not trying to make it sound easy, just shortened it... none of these things are easy to draw so it shows up correctly... please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say, it's 4 am and my native language is not English

).

In 3D, you have to tell the program how to calculate the diffuse color and strength, Specular strength, glossiness, color and whether you want multiplying through opacity, ambient settings, opacity, bump, displacement, reflection, refraction, lighting model, UV maps (if different from default), smoothness, subsurface scattering, etc etc etc.... so many setting you have to know what they all do and have to be able to set up correctly so that your champagne glass you're trying to render doesn't look 6 inches thick... And these are only the surface settings for the models themselves.

Lighting is a whole other mess that's very difficult to do correctly. Spot light, point light, distant light, camera settings, focus points... It's very easy to make your whole scene look bad with a bad lighting position or too much light strength, too weak a color.

Mind you, what I'm explaining here is applicable to when you're setting up a scene. Creating your own 3D models and textures... well... let's not go there now, it's 4 AM

So as you can see, traditional art and 3D art is in fact very different, and one is not easier to do than the other, even if someone tells you that 3D only consist of you dressing up virtual dolls.

Sorry for the huge post (probably my biggest ever LOL), just thought I'll give you (and anyone else interested) some insight of what goes into creating a 3D scene.

EDIT: Here are some AMAZING 3D art that deals with realism. Some of my favorite pictures...
#3 might be NSFW...

http://features.cgsociety.org/newgal...6242_large.jpg

http://features.cgsociety.org/newgal...0209_large.jpg

http://features.cgsociety.org/newgal...5486_large.jpg

http://features.cgsociety.org/newgal...0358_large.jpg

Yes... They're entirely 3D.... *drools*

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

minami, those pics are wicked. i did do 3d but i don't enjoy it as much as design and illustration. i went to an artschool where we all did Maya for 16 hrs a day minimum, but i did learn alot of it and might return to it again some point when i'm bored of 2D. Art has so many directions u can take, everyone's journey is pretty amazing.

Yasmine · Nov 03, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

minami, your ritualist is advertising carrara pro? :O

Minami · Nov 03, 2009, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

minami, those pics are wicked. i did do 3d but i don't enjoy it as much as design and illustration. i went to an artschool where we all did Maya for 16 hrs a day minimum, but i did learn alot of it and might return to it again some point when i'm bored of 2D. Art has so many directions u can take, everyone's journey is pretty amazing.

Wow that's neat!
And just fyi, I didn't make those pics I linked.

I wish I did though LOL

Jasmine, yeah, that ritualist strongly resembles mine.

Carrara is owned by DAZ 3D, and I actually develop content for Carrara Pro, namely dynamic hair/fur.

Like this kitty here, the fur on it is one of my products for sale. http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...zvrev-full.jpg
I also have fur for dogs and big cats like lion, tiger, panther, etc. ^_^

EDIT: Found an advertising pic for my dog fur:
http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...20u1n-full.jpg

EDIT2: Advertising pics for my big cat furs

:
http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...kerg7-full.jpg
http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...rrag6-full.jpg
http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...gb70s-full.jpg
http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gal...abyqi-full.jpg

Yasmine · Nov 03, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

lol, that kitty looks scaring :P It's really amazing those are all 3d.

Minami · Nov 03, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

LOL the ebil kitty

hoodiestarfish · Nov 03, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

@Minami, too bad maya fur isnt as great looking as urs :P got any animated clips showing the fur in action?

Minami · Nov 03, 2009, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Aww hoodie, ty

No animation sorry... Animation is one thing I can't do yet... I would have loved to have a short animation as advertising too, but I couldn't do it, even with keyframes. :S

Tzu · Nov 03, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I like the saying "For every win there's always both hard work, and luck."

You'll never get where you want from just relying on the current to take you there, but even hard work doesn't always pay off, your environment is sometimes less liable to "let you through". It's a nice counter to the problem of personal bias when in a winning or losing situation; a person tends to think that when they lose, they're unlucky. When they win, they've worked hard. It's always a little bit of both though, in my opinion.

Luck doesn't always seem like a term you can use for art though. Maybe your luck could be in having a stimulating environment? People who have creative families or friends from no effort of their own, they're lucky. There's a greater potential for enjoying what you do and experiencing growth. If you don't have a stimulating environment, I guess you have to try to build it yourself. That's the only "inheritable" part of creativity I believe in.

Don't have anything to add to what's already been said so I'm just ranting. >.>'

Deatgs Corrupter · Nov 03, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Although artists generally are seem to be born with natrual talents. mine being bleding runny ink s

theres nothing like practice makes perfect. i know it sounds old but im 15 years old and i made my firsts inked comic when i was 7, you just got keep at it, eventually we all find the michelangalo inside us