Curse

YunSooJin · Sep 26, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

whats wrong with it? What is the ideal model of Nolani supposed to be?

In Nolani, artists should work for next to nothing and do commissions only for people who have the least amount of previous artwork done for them ~_~. Oh and also only for people who will really love their art, even if that's not really quantifiable...

hoodiestarfish · Sep 26, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Well... its life isnt it, people have things because they gave up something or put in the effort for em. Ingame people have stacks of ectos and money because they put in the hours to save or power trade/farm. There really isnt an upper crust in the game. That tier is open to anyone willing to go thru the motions to work and hoard. That is hardly a reason to hold against someone. So call it an e-whatever. People who do not have as much just never put the time and effort to gather it. It is not the same in RL.

Also, to get to where they are, artists have been honing their skills for years. Years of dedication and practice. Yes, it is equivalent to buying ingame gold with your talent and time. But if u were to look at it that way, the clients are getting a huge deal. Where are you going to get an artist to draw for the sums you are able to in GWS, not even in a third world country (they wud rather buy food than get ectos and cash)

Basically, if you want something in life or ingame which has become part of our lives, you need to put in the effort and time. Expecting something to come easy, cheap or handed to u on a silver platter is unlikely although not impossible, unless the person concerned happens to be a buddy of yours.

Qing Guang · Sep 26, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Alright, alright, burn me for a Commie already. Sorry for suggesting that maybe people other than those who get a work from every single artist here should have a chance to get art without breaking their bank.

Or maybe I'm being too nice. Maybe I should just make the choice a few here have and charge more for my crap so I can keep up with those uber-artists whose work is really worth the high prices. It's not like most of my clients couldn't afford it anyway. I just thought it would be better if I set mine low and let people tip to what they thought it was worth.

YunSooJin · Sep 26, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qing Guang

Alright, alright, burn me for a Commie already. Sorry for suggesting that maybe people other than those who get a work from every single artist here should have a chance to get art without breaking their bank.

Or maybe I'm being too nice. Maybe I should just make the choice a few here have and charge more for my crap so I can keep up with those uber-artists whose work is really worth the high prices. It's not like most of my clients couldn't afford it anyway. I just thought it would be better if I set mine low and let people tip to what they thought it was worth.

Commie :|. I hope you didn't take anything I said to be applicable to you. I understand your predicament all too well, since I was in your position a few years ago. Well, I had more money than you do now, but it wasn't all that much for how much they wanted.

BlueXIV · Sep 26, 2009, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I... really don't care who gets art or not. Two of my previous pieces went to people that never had a commission done before. But I would rather work for my friends than some random person. :\. It is around 10-30 hours of my time, I'd rather it be used on something I enjoy

Espadon · Sep 26, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Sometimes you want to burn out when you realize you have to paint a client with a really ugly toon.

hoodiestarfish · Sep 26, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Espadon

Sometimes you want to burn out when you realize you have to paint a client with a really ugly toon.

so this begs the question.... should an artist reject a commission of an ugly tune or a boring scenario that kills their brain to focus on?

should every client be treated the same irregardless of requests/money/situation/whatever?

Or, should it be a smile for everyone, we serve everyone McDonald's style art service?

YunSooJin · Sep 26, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodiestarfish

so this begs the question.... should an artist reject a commission of an ugly tune or a boring scenario that kills their brain to focus on?

should every client be treated the same irregardless of requests/money/situation/whatever?

Or, should it be a smile for everyone, we serve everyone McDonald's style art service?

I think artists should be able to draw what they like. This is tricky though, cause it might hurt feelings, and people become unreasonable when feelings are hurt

.

Qing Guang · Sep 26, 2009, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I've got no problem with artists reserving the right to refuse a client. Since we've all got limited time, I think it makes sense we should be able to spend that time drawing something that actually looks nice.

Besides, then clients can look for artists whose styles are most in line with their characters', and will likely turn out better that way. So it's good for everyone, though I expect a few feelings will be bruised along the way.

Narcissia · Sep 26, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I think artists should be able to draw what they like. This is tricky though, cause it might hurt feelings, and people become unreasonable when feelings are hurt

.

I think everyone knows that even though they might love their character, some people are going to find it to be a hideous pos.
I would completely understand an artist choosing to not do a commission, and I think people need to be more understanding of this.

Ever since my friend had complained about how he hated being told what to draw I've been asking artists if they prefer to draw a certain class or anything, hoping that it makes it at least a bit better.

So, Iuno, perhaps artists being stricter about what they're going to draw for commissions would help with the whole feeling rejected and spazzing issue.

carbajac · Sep 26, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

This kind of sucks. I really like the rise in artwork stuff. I have a friend (who used to be on gaia) that had a bunch of artwork done for her. A lot of it she never asked for but because she had a zombie skin that you can't get anymore, everyone wanted to draw her avatar because of how cool she was. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, my point is that I saw all the art she had done and I hadn't thought of it before and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw all the artwork that people do for characters. It's getting something tangible for work from a game that has relatively intangible benefits. But because GW can get expensive for people who don't farm or powersell, I could never afford to buy any. But now that I have most of the stuff for my characters and the lucrative zkey business, I have money to buy stuff now.

I must clarify that the reason for my bribe in another thread is because given the pricing scheme, I thought it was a fair price for what I was asking for. When I got one-upped, I only raised my ante because of how much I wanted the artwork. It seemed fine to me, I don't take my GW money that seriously as apparently some people do.

Something that my friend told me is that a lot of artists ask for specifics when doing a commission because when people pay for stuff, they feel entitled to certain things since they're paying for it. Specifics clear up the ambiguity that could potentially cause an issue with a patron. Otherwise, the artists do it for free to avoid the issue altogether.

Chicken of the Seas · Sep 26, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

DRAAAAAMA!

To be honest, this is a pretty silly discussion.

As an art buyer, I love love love threads where artists say, "Post your character and a quick bio and I'll draw whichever one(s) is/are the most interesting!" It gives myself and everyone else hope, and we don't have to worry about being on a huge-ass waiting list. I really think that artists should use this method to avoid drawing butt ugly characters that they don't even particularly like.

Or, if certain people never get commissions done due to my suggested method they could do this: Post multiple characters. Unless your eye for characters is completely terrible, or you have an ugly fettish I'm sure you'll notice a trend in at least one of your characters that artists seem to like to do.

Oh, and I love you Hailfall. I just thought you should know

Also since I can't post it in aria's bai guys thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueXIV

D: What did I do.

I wasn't attacking you personally, I was just noticing the threads you guys make about each other. Kinda like the espadon one as well as ariia's contest.

StarrTheInsane · Sep 26, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

@Qing - I'm totally open to art trades around the middle of October. That solves a dilemma for artist and buyer. That goes for other artists too.

@artists - Do what you need to do, you know your limits and needs. If you start out with inexpensive work because it's how much you'd be able to pay for work as a buyer, don't be ashamed to say you need to take a break or need to charge more for your work. If you have an auction, gd right you're gonna get paid for your time, because you don't just sit around all day drawing. There's life to be lived, games to be played, and people that are willing to pay just for the prestige of saying they had one of a limited run from a high-end artist. If you do it for free, or do it for the robin hood factor, that's awesome too, nobody expects it and they always appreciate it. If you say "I'm only doing one, pitch me your best idea," that's super cool, because no one's left waiting and wondering, it doesn't eat up all your time and it's something you really wanted to do.

There's just so much demand and like someone else mentioned, someone's always going to be pissed about something, so no business model is going to be without criticism from buyers (or artists with different views).

I'd love to get back into things here to help out with the artist:buyer ratio, but it's scary to watch. It's like being the clumsy kid on the playground watching the jump rope swinging and you're not sure how exactly you're going to jump in. You see other people do it, and you're pretty sure you could jump for a while, it's just making the right entrance that's difficult. I feel just certain that I'd be someone that tries to go inexpensive and gets overwhelmed quickly, and that's just one more list of people to be sad that their artist quit on them. I'm still sorry to Yakuza Yuki whose picture I was in the middle of when I burnt out 2 years ago. I guess I always felt like if I ever opened back up I would need to give priority to the people on the old list if they ever checked back to collect. Nagging guilt.

BlueXIV · Sep 26, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Starr, the only thing I have to say to you is "just have fun with it."

Doing stuff out of obligation sucks. As much whining as I do, I still enjoy my time here. I'm sorry to say this, but as soon as I don't feel like I am having fun any more, I will probably Q_Q.

Open a commission thread, or just draw make an art thread and draw random stuff. Do what's fun, and if anyone hates on you for it, I'll bring in the troll squad! D:!

In all seriousness though, this is a MMO forum, and doing commissions isn't really a real job. If you aren't having fun with these things, simply drop it and stop doing it. No need to feel guilty over stuff like this.

Fey · Sep 26, 2009, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Iv been around for a number of years on these forums, i looked at them from a while back, seen many good artists come and go , seen the fluctuations in price, seen it shift from an artists view to do pieces for fun or the inspiring concept to profit.

Though my art is mediocre at best and i use traditional techniques (pencil,watercolours,pen) i have had several 'commission' threads out, never did i once recieve payment (i only have done about 5 pieces of GW 'art') My main motivation was the request, i would choose inspirational pieces or ones that i felt would progress my technique, this is why i could never keep a comission thread open as i was not always in the mood to draw/paint and not all requests were particulary inspirational. Quite alot of such threads existed at the beginning of these forums, and the more advanced artists art typically sold around the 10-50k mark.

Perhaps it has come to a profit endeavor more than a wanting to do art, i looked forward to any requests i got, and yes due to my work being low quality i got alot but i choose those that i really would have fun with, i really enjoy doing GW art when im in the mood, i typically spend 3-6 hours on a piece, although my work does not seem like i do

I am happy with it, and my technique improves, thats enough for me.
I dont feel many artists here look forward to the requests, rather they think its just another name on the workload, it shouldn't be that way, and because its that way prices are rising.

I dont have a solution, i only have the observations, but nolani is still a great place full of great people

hoodiestarfish · Sep 26, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

as i have said before in many different words, everyone should just do what suits them. if u are not happy about what u are doing, maybe its time to do different.

everyone needs to be happy, whatever ur motivation, bank balance, ecto hoard, skill level playing hours... etc the list cud go on.

if someone wants to do something for free for someone cus it makes both of them happy, thats really cool.

if someone wants to charge 500e for something they spend a month doing, and someone is willing to fork over the 500e for it, thats cool too.

there could be an infinite number of these scenarios. one of them could be you, or none of them could be you. if you do not like what someone is charging/paying, your paths need not cross but accept the likelihood that such paths of others will cross. everyone has their own concept of "reward". For artists, maybe its that r9 crystalline that they have been wanting since their first level 1 and their art is a means to get it so they put effort into farming that way. Its like saying a ghostly hero minipet is too high at 2000e. As long as someone is willing to pay that price, the price is just right.

For buyers like YSJ, he works really hard in the game to procure something he really desires, in this case art of his character. He is willing to offer up sums he himself deems as worthy in order to get what he desires. Again, nothing wrong with that. As long as someone is willing, there is a meeting of minds.

If someone has no money and he runs into an artist who after meeting him is filled with inspiration for his next piece and is filled with the joy of creation as well as the prospect of making someone happy and he gifts his artwork to this person who has no money. Again there was a meeting of minds.The art was not free, the artist received what he truly wanted.

Everyone has a different price tag and they are not necessarily quantifiable in ectos or gaming gold. We all want things, all sorts of things and we hope to meet the persons who can provide that for us. If someone is paid an eternal blade or crystalline sword for his/her artwork by someone who was able to generate the gaming resources to put that sword up as payment, i think both have been fulfilled. there should be much happiness all around.

By and large, artists and pretty much most anyone follow their hearts.

Tzu · Sep 26, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

so many different views, what are we even talking about in the end? ^.^
It seems the "state of nolani" is both new and old, fun and boring, elitist and open-hearted, dramatic and dull, etc.
I think I'll just go back to doing my stuff, see where that gets me.

have another nice day of browsing guru's art forums everyone! V ^.^

Espadon · Sep 26, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Reading back I think I'm most of all concerned with that feeling I got from some people that Nolani has become too intimidating for the regular artist to break into. I'm in accord with Blue's feelings on the matter, as expressed in his thread. For me, it's time to bow out and let the cycle start anew.

Qing Guang · Sep 26, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Awww, I didn't mean to imply you all should leave... But I guess if that's the way to get art reachable again, maybe that's the best option. T.T

Espadon you won't leave without finishing your waitlist, will you? *been excitedly waiting with the payment set aside since May...* *puppy face*

Tzu · Sep 26, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

which "regular artists"? O.o who are they/where and why are they intimidated?

I'm so confused.