Curse

Sekkira · Jul 07, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Terrorism is not a pathetic outcry by a little boy who wants his ways. It is a political act to induce fear in the hearts of citizens to overthrow the current government's decision in whatever issue throught murder of innocents.

Most of it is done out of frustration or oppression, which is sad as some people or a group, a community are oppressed in such a way that the only way (or the percieved only way) to tell the world or government about their dismay about such an issue is through a genocidal (possibly including suicidal) act to make people see and hear them and speak up on their behalf against the government on this issue out of fear.

It is unfortunate that some people are put into this position where they feel or perhaps are powerless to do anything else. However, it does not make the act right. Some times, the terrorist at hand knows this, but also realise not doing so will end up with murder anyway. I feel pity on this person's soul as well as his victims as he is in the position to chose who will die, be it by his hand to hopefully stop further death or someone else's.

There are also groups of terrorists who do not commit these acts for outcries to help people or solve a serious issue, but do so for their own, or own faction's gain politically. These people are the worst kind. Mainly because the first type can be dealt with by changing the government and its policies in order for all to be heard without the need to resort to terror.

This is the type of faction Al-Queda is. I am not saying that the recent bombings in London are related in any way to them because I do not know and do not have any proof or evidence to support such a claim.

Al-Queda is(or were) threatening the nations of the world to back out of Iraq, dictating the consequence of an attack of terror if the demands are not met. I personally am two minds about the war on Iraq, on one hand I say it had to happen sooner or later, on the other, I do not believe anyone has the right to say we need to go to war unless they personally are ready to sign up for the military and join, which I am not. But this is not about the war.

This is about the US, UK and Australia's military occupation of Iraq at this current time. They are all there to clean up the mess which was made during the war and rebuild the country and its government which Sadam Hussein had left in a mess. There are aid workers as well as military over there, helping the people out, rebuilding houses, shops and other buildings to do some good for the country. Give Iraq a (hopefully true) democratic system where the people elect their leader.

Al-Queda, and other linked factions do not want this. They want to rule the country themselves for the sheer power trip and through fear. I do believe that these recent terror attacks, if provoked by these nation's military occupation is not justified and all the more reason why they should continue their occupation to continue rebuilding the country.

I apologise if I have used the name of Al-Queda wrongly and that they do not have a political stand on this matter, but if this is the case, you can merely replace their name with whatever faction that does.

Dreamsmith · Jul 07, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

It is unfortunate that some people are put into this position where they feel or perhaps are powerless to do anything else. However, it does not make the act right.

Well said. That doesn't make it right... but it makes it a lot easier to understand. Scratch the surface of most terrorist organizations and you usually find a group of people who were seriously wronged in the past by people who they couldn't effectively fight back against. When great powers abuse their power, there is a terribly price to be paid. Alas, it's not those who make these decisions that pay the price, instead, generations of innocent decendants do.

The real sad thing is, any attempt you make to try to resolve the problem is usually shouted down by those who are more interested in trying to figure out who to blame than how to solve the problem. There are those who will attack you merely for attempting to understand the problem. Somehow you're a traitor or giving in to terrorists or some such nonsense merely because you ask the question, "Why?" To even acknowledge that those who commit these acts might have actually been wronged in the past and have a legitimate beef is seen as somehow condoning their actions.

By doing that, one plays right into the hands of those who want to use terrorist movements for political gains or for other personal reasons. Those sorts of people thrive on terrorism, the last thing they want is to see any conflicts resolved. They are indeed the worst sort of terrorists, and we eagerly dance to their tune for fear that doing anything other than exactly what they want is to "give in to terrorism".

Meat Ball · Jul 07, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Here, Here!

When people start talking about all the 'evil' things the Allied contries are doing in Iraq I like point out all the good things that are going on. Here's a link:

http://www.portaliraq.com/news.php?c...b630eb2838d750

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jul 07, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Ball

Here, Here!

When people start talking about all the 'evil' things the Allied contries are doing in Iraq I like point out all the good things that are going on. Here's a link:

http://www.portaliraq.com/news.php?c...b630eb2838d750

thank you for some good info
I think unless you've been there and seen what's happening and what is planned you really should not try to say if something is good or bad.

The media does not show you the whole story and for the most part only show what is good for their bias, so don't base your opinions on half a story. It's quite foolish.

There is a lot of good going on in Iraq alot more than you might think.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 07, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

We live in a world where the perpetrators get more respect than the victims. Wrong is wrong. If I rape or murder someone then I am guilty.... period!

Well you see, johnny had a bad shake in life and society made him to be this way.... BUNK!

People need to stand up and take responsibility for actions, not blame others for their issues and crimes.

There is never a reason to blow up innocents because of an idealology or dislike of politics. Today people who were mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters, grandparents, children possibly as well, died at the hands of murderers. I, for one, am not goting to play psycology with this filth. Some man will never see his wife again. Some parent will never get to say goodbye to their daughter!

I am outraged! Most Americans have a strong bond with the UK(And you Aussie's too!!). All across this country we are in shock and our hearts are towards the people of the UK. This attack is personal to me. An attack on you is one on me. Our heretige is intertwined with you. I work with a couple of Brits and we really stand together.

Sekkira · Jul 07, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

If that was a reply to what I said, perhaps you misinterpreted it.

What I meant was that there are reasons some people cause an action of terror and some of them are quite understandable why they cause such an atrocity. However, I did not say it excuses them from commiting it. The act of terror is wrong, plain and simple. It is not justified by the means, the means only gives reason for it.

As I said before, I feel pity on the people who commit such acts as an outcry or a last resort to get their point of oppression or the like across. Because these people don't see any other way to do so. The worst thing is, sometimes there isn't any other way to get your plight heard. Sometimes these people become patriots years later because regardless of what atrocities their actions caused, they also could have caused a lot of good for the society or country.

You will always have terrorism, as long as there is oppression and evil people in this world. However, some of it can be prevented, not by tightening security (although it helps), but by abolishing oppression, such acts by people who shouldn't and don't want to commit these acts but are practically forced to can be avoided entirely.

It reminds me of the oppression of Buddism in Vietnam in the 50s, where a monk set himself alight in front of a government establishment to protest against such things. His voice was not heard. The Buddist community was not heard. It took a monk to set himself on fire and more to follow before the government actually payed them attention.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 07, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

If that was a reply to what I said, perhaps you misinterpreted it.

What I meant was that there are reasons some people cause an action of terror and some of them are quite understandable why they cause such an atrocity. However, I did not say it excuses them from commiting it. The act of terror is wrong, plain and simple. It is not justified by the means, the means only gives reason for it.

As I said before, I feel pity on the people who commit such acts as an outcry or a last resort to get their point of oppression or the like across. Because these people don't see any other way to do so. The worst thing is, sometimes there isn't any other way to get your plight heard. Sometimes these people become patriots years later because regardless of what atrocities their actions caused, they also could have caused a lot of good for the society or country.

You will always have terrorism, as long as there is oppression and evil people in this world. However, some of it can be prevented, not by tightening security (although it helps), but by abolishing oppression, such acts by people who shouldn't and don't want to commit these acts but are practically forced to can be avoided entirely.

It reminds me of the oppression of Buddism in Vietnam in the 50s, where a monk set himself alight in front of a government establishment to protest against such things. His voice was not heard. The Buddist community was not heard. It took a monk to set himself on fire and more to follow before the government actually payed them attention.

No, I wasn't responding to you! Sorry!

BTW, are the Wiggles and the Crocodile Hunter(Steve Irwin) still popular in your country? My son loves the Wiggles from Australia!

DarrenJasper · Jul 07, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

I am outraged! Most Americans have a strong bond with the UK(And you Aussie's too!!). All across this country we are in shock and our hearts are towards the people of the UK. This attack is personal to me. An attack on you is one on me. Our heretige is intertwined with you. I work with a couple of Brits and we really stand together.

Until things blow over and we forget all about this sentimental posturing until the next terrorist attack.

Sekkira · Jul 07, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

BTW, are the Wiggles and the Crocodile Hunter(Steve Irwin) still popular in your country? My son loves the Wiggles from Australia!

Wiggles are still popular for kids, Steve Irwin was never popular down here

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jul 07, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Wiggles are still popular for kids, Steve Irwin was never popular down here

I was in Darwin twice in 2002 and man do they hate the stevie (i'm a a dumb***) Irwin. I love Darwin though thought about movin there when I retire

franning · Jul 07, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I don't think that this terrorist are the oppress one that you are talking about. They just want destruction/chaos in the western society.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 07, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Until things blow over and we forget all about this sentimental posturing until the next terrorist attack.

True. But not everyone is shallow. And hey, you can't live this way all the time forever either. When my dad died this January I balled my eyes out daily. Now I do just a few times a week. In a few years, it will just be every once and a while. Does that cheapen my love for him? We deal with pain and move on. We must. Not doing so leaves bitter emptiness that will ruin a life.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 07, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyil Thunder Arrow

I was in Darwin twice in 2002 and man do they hate the stevie (i'm a a dumb***) Irwin. I love Darwin though thought about movin there when I retire

lol, the crocodile hunter show was very popular here in the States for a handful of years, and is slowly dying down, but still relatively popular.

Sekkira · Jul 07, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by franning

I don't think that this terrorist are the oppress one that you are talking about. They just want destruction/chaos in the western society.

Very true. I doubt this latest one in London had anything to do with oppression. It was by a faction who wants senseless destruction or power through terror. The problem is, afaik, that noone has spoken up to take responsibility and why it was done. Is is another "Get your troops out of Iraq" messages? Something completely different or maybe even a complete oversight and some quite severe oppression is occuring that we, the public at large don't know about?

I haven't been keeping up with the news lately (I only watched about 10 minutes of this coverage of the bombings on TV then went back to my internets).

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jul 07, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

The problem is, afaik, that noone has spoken up to take responsibility and why it was done.

That's the part that gets me cause they usually do after the attack. makes me wonder if it's over yet.

Nash · Jul 07, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

Well you see, johnny had a bad shake in life and society made him to be this way.... BUNK!

People need to stand up and take responsibility for actions, not blame others for their issues and crimes.

The society that creates these kinds of people can't wash their hands of all responsibility. It's a sign of a sick society, and you can ignore it all you like but until you realize the real problem lies with society itself, these people will never go away.

Principa Discordia · Jul 07, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

The problem is, afaik, that noone has spoken up to take responsibility and why it was done. Is is another "Get your troops out of Iraq" messages?

A "secret" splinter group of Al Qa'ieda has taken the credit for the bombings, and the messages they left on the internet said that the motivation was another "get your troops out of Iraq" and "we warned you" type. The problem is proving it, it could just be opportunists wanting some limelight.

Anyway, I found the message on Wikipedia, translated from whatever language it was in: -

Quote:

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a cowardly raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."

A very chilling message, and I have a hard time believing that it's not authentic and that these people are not actually responsible for the bombings.

Darkest Dawn · Jul 07, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

The society that creates these kinds of people can't wash their hands of all responsibility. It's a sign of a sick society, and you can ignore it all you like but until you realize the real problem lies with society itself, these people will never go away.

Well, in my society our biggest problem is laziness due to prosperity, and unruliness due to poor parenting.

These terrorists come from another land far from us. In those lands it is much different than you or I envision.

These radical groups are taught that the world must be brought under the control of their diety. This pattern has been going on for 1500 years. Please read some good history textbooks before making such statements. This problem has nothing to do with who are our leaders, and what their society is like. I am a history minor, and am very passionate about world history. Why don't you read about the Battle of Tours and Charles Martel to start. Then read about the waning and fall of the Eastern Roman Empire and Constantinople. Then come back and tell me this is a recent thing due to current policy!

PS. While at it, ask the Goths what happened to them, and where they went!

Sekkira · Jul 07, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

A very chilling message, and I have a hard time believing that it's not authentic and that these people are not actually responsible for the bombings.

And I re-iterate my previous statement: This is the EXACT reason why we need to keep the troops in Afganistan and Iraq.

smitty-gw · Jul 07, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkest Dawn

Well, in my society our biggest problem is laziness due to prosperity, and unruliness due to poor parenting.

These terrorists come from another land far from us. In those lands it is much different than you or I envision.

These radical groups are taught that the world must be brought under the control of their diety. This pattern has been going on for 1500 years. Please read some good history textbooks before making such statements. This problem has nothing to do with who are our leaders, and what their society is like. I am a history minor, and am very passionate about world history. Why don't you read about the Battle of Tours and Charles Martel to start. Then read about the waning and fall of the Eastern Roman Empire and Constantinople. Then come back and tell me this is a recent thing due to current policy!

PS. While at it, ask the Goths what happened to them, and where they went!

Well said my man. Now...that aside, DEATH to all terrorists!