Curse

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 02, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exarch0

There is nothing wrong with criticizing the government (unless of course you live in a country where that freedom is not permitted). As Aniewiel pointed out, however, there is an appropriate time for finger pointing and an appropriate time to get in and do what can be done to help.

Until the survivors have been rescued and are safe, blaming US intelligence, military intelligence, FEMA, the City of New Orleans Crisis Management Dept., the governor, or the president is a waste of energy and time. Was the ball dropped? It sure looks like it, but at this point it is better to get the ball picked up, get things moving, and help the survivors than to stand around laying blame.

Nicely said...

But honestly... if anyone I going to blame... I would blame the people that used to live there... the government are just trying to clean up what they over look in the past many years... If their daily living involve justice, dignity, rightousness etc... Those people can help each other, not rape, loot, pillage, burn each other.

One thing I got to say is that American are mostly spoiled... Be glad you live in America... Some other countries won't even care if their people die a horrible death.

One of the most obvious mistake everyone made was... They underestimate the might of nature.

EchoSex · Sep 02, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

It's a friggen hurricane, get over it. Crap happens.

Andy06r · Sep 02, 2005, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Well whats it say about the people of New Orleans that rescue helicopters couldn't land because they were mobbed, or that rescue operations in parts of the town ceased because the pilots were concerned about gun fire. Who the hells shoots at the guy trying to save you, and why would anyone NOT want to be rescued? They interviewed someone on cnn in the convention center who had to walk several blocks (thru the sewage and muck) to reach a bus pick up point. She stopped (in the muck) to help another family keep from dropping their young children into the water when they got tired.

They were told to expect 8 buses...there were 18. Why 18...? The NATIONAL GUARD deployed from the extra buses and they and helicopters had to deploy and set up a defensive perimeter to keep a watch out for SNIPER fire. Forgive my yelling and anger, but am I the only one embarassed by the people of new orleans?

I live in Nebraska and last year a tornado leveled a town of 3,000 half an hour from my house to the ground. Sure its 3,000, but people from all over the state came to help out. There wasn't any looting, there wasn't any gun fire...there were volunteers who went to clean up the rubble. The town (about the size of a large Lincoln residential district) was evacuated, cleaned, and deemed "safe" in half a week, with people beginning to rebuild. We didn't have national press, we didn't have politicians yelling at each other...we had concerned citizens working together to get a job done.

Is human decency and human compassion that scarce in the world?

EchoSex · Sep 02, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy06r

Well whats it say about the people of New Orleans that rescue helicopters couldn't land because they were mobbed, or that rescue operations in parts of the town ceased because the pilots were concerned about gun fire. Who the hells shoots at the guy trying to save you, and why would anyone NOT want to be rescued? They interviewed someone on cnn in the convention center who had to walk several blocks (thru the sewage and muck) to reach a bus pick up point. She stopped (in the muck) to help another family keep from dropping their young children into the water when they got tired.

They were told to expect 8 buses...there were 18. Why 18...? The NATIONAL GUARD deployed from the extra buses and they and helicopters had to deploy and set up a defensive perimeter to keep a watch out for SNIPER fire. Forgive my yelling and anger, but am I the only one embarassed by the people of new orleans?

I live in Nebraska and last year a tornado leveled a town of 3,000 half an hour from my house to the ground. Sure its 3,000, but people from all over the state came to help out. There wasn't any looting, there wasn't any gun fire...there were volunteers who went to clean up the rubble. The town (about the size of a large Lincoln residential district) was evacuated, cleaned, and deemed "safe" in half a week, with people beginning to rebuild. We didn't have national press, we didn't have politicians yelling at each other...we had concerned citizens working together to get a job done.

Is human decency and human compassion that scarce in the world?

You, sir, make an extremely good argument. And your right too - it's utter chaos. Personaly I think it'll just flop over in the end and everything'll work out in the end, just like everything else.

ManadartheHealer · Sep 02, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

People need to steal food, clean drinking water, possibly dry clothes, and other things that are necessary for survival. That's it for legitimate stealing. People caught stealing TVs, computers, etc. need to be shot in the head on sight. People raping and trying to take shots at rescue workers need to be shot on sight. These lawless people are complete RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOtards. Simply because there is a natural disaster that gives you the right to be an asshat? I don't think so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

To HT Ingram: my apologizes. Too bad you don't live in New Orleans, they could use more people like you.

/signed

Sofonisba · Sep 02, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I'm not saying it is right to shoot or rape or beat anyone to death--you should know that.

I just don't believe we can really understand the amount of frustration these people are going through. Can you imagine the stench, the thirst, the toxins--yeah, right, the chemical storage plant that blew up is NOT burning anything "toxic"--the hunger, the pain, the daze, the false hopes.

Tell me to evacuate to the stadium, I'll go, if I can get there--that is where people get saved from, but find out that there is no water or sanitation. Tell me to wait for the bus, it's a-comin, don't worry. Then it never comes.

My baby needs formula, my parents need medication, there is nothing NOTHING happening.

PieXags · Sep 02, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy06r

Well whats it say about the people of New Orleans that rescue helicopters couldn't land because they were mobbed, or that rescue operations in parts of the town ceased because the pilots were concerned about gun fire. Who the hells shoots at the guy trying to save you, and why would anyone NOT want to be rescued? They interviewed someone on cnn in the convention center who had to walk several blocks (thru the sewage and muck) to reach a bus pick up point. She stopped (in the muck) to help another family keep from dropping their young children into the water when they got tired.

They were told to expect 8 buses...there were 18. Why 18...? The NATIONAL GUARD deployed from the extra buses and they and helicopters had to deploy and set up a defensive perimeter to keep a watch out for SNIPER fire. Forgive my yelling and anger, but am I the only one embarassed by the people of new orleans?

I live in Nebraska and last year a tornado leveled a town of 3,000 half an hour from my house to the ground. Sure its 3,000, but people from all over the state came to help out. There wasn't any looting, there wasn't any gun fire...there were volunteers who went to clean up the rubble. The town (about the size of a large Lincoln residential district) was evacuated, cleaned, and deemed "safe" in half a week, with people beginning to rebuild. We didn't have national press, we didn't have politicians yelling at each other...we had concerned citizens working together to get a job done.

Is human decency and human compassion that scarce in the world?

As I said, the majority of New Orleans population isn't much different from you or me, the reason you see shooting, stealing, and all that other shit is because the people in New Orleans, are people who couldn't afford to get out. The people still in New Orleans shooting were below the poverty line to begin with, and now they just went through a hurricane. They are the poor, generally uneducated part of the population. If they had the money to evacuate, they would have me thinks. Is it stupid? Hell yes, but crisis brings out the best and the worst. I have a feeling we'd see similar results if it happened to say, California, Florida, or any other state it could've been in. There are stupid people everywhere, it's not just "The people of New Orleans".

Inde · Sep 03, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoSex

You, sir, make an extremely good argument. And your right too - it's utter chaos. Personaly I think it'll just flop over in the end and everything'll work out in the end, just like everything else.

I call absolute bullshit.

There were dire warnings a few days before it hit. It has been what now - 4 or 5 days? There are a mess of reports from the place (my favorite to read: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) about how absolutely craptastic the response has been.

'flop over in the end and it will just work out ' ... I see you are approaching the situation with the George W Bush approach. "It will be fine *grin*". The place is ripe with lawlessness, there are a lot of reports of NOPD being hostile to reporters, looting themselves, senseless violence, and even quitting completely. There has been reported over $50,000,000 donated, and yet there are people STARVING AND DEYHDRATING TO DEATH. Try putting yourself in the position - you are living in your beautiful US, a natural disaster occurs, and you DIE OF THIRST. In a bloody 'first-world' country. But thats okay - I mean hell, Exxon just posted a $25,000,000,000 profit (to use them as an example). Its a capitalistic society - just about making money yourself isnt it?

You sir, are a hack.

Inde · Sep 03, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

I'm not saying it is right to shoot or rape or beat anyone to death--you should know that.

I just don't believe we can really understand the amount of frustration these people are going through. Can you imagine the stench, the thirst, the toxins--yeah, right, the chemical storage plant that blew up is NOT burning anything "toxic"--the hunger, the pain, the daze, the false hopes.

You can make sense of looting for food. You can make sense (almost) of violence. But killing and rape can never be empathized with. And stealing valuables - that is just raw aggression.

The line between necessity and vandalism is not a fine line.

Aniewiel · Sep 03, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Donations for victims' relief are being taken by:

http://www.redcross.org

http://www.feedthechildren.org

PieXags · Sep 03, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Pie donated the last of his money to the red cross. Now I'm poor again.

Dradt.

The Hated · Sep 03, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

lol no we just don't give a shit. Their fault for not leaving in the first place, now I have to give a shit for people stealing laptops and everything else in sight. BULL! let them die for all I care. Food I can understand, but those little shits shooting at helicopters hijacking cars, and stealing electronics , SHOULD be left behind, better yet shot on sight.

send them food, water, Medical supplies, Medical aid. supplies for rebuilding. Even refugee support for moving them with buses or trains to other states or relocation camps. But nothing else. The big easy is GONE. face it. Burn it to the ground and rebuild. this time out of the flood plain.

The new Orleans government is also at fault for KNOWING that this was a possibility for a Worst Case scenario and not having a contingency plan for it. Not having reserve medical supplies and rations in bunkers somewhere is inexcusable.

My family grew up in the 60s when BEING PREPAIRED was a way of life in the USA. Now everyone thinks they are DUE. That the government is responsible for everyone's well being. bull. its YOUR responsibility to survive with what you have, or move on to someplace you CAN survive. If the government were to be destroyed through an attack what would you do then? bend over and kiss your a$$ goodbye I guess.

Those people just standing around and not walking out are PATHETIC. 1 days walk and they would be clear of the disaster, but Noooo. do they do that? of course not. They stand around waiting for someone to do something for them. Guess what? its not happening very fast is it? It CAN"T, Most of the heavy transportation lines are GONE, and Power is also GONE. infrastructure... ALSO GONE.

Start heading to civilization again. their lives as it HAS been is over. they MUST move on and start over. Or they will die. one or the other. Its their choice. But those people that insist on staying in the flooded areas are fools. plain and simple. refusing helo lifts out is ridiculous. The Transports are for those that CAN NOT walk or drive out. that's to be expected. anyone capable of walking should be NOW.

/signed, and A FREEEEKIN MEN

Aniewiel · Sep 03, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

As with any human tragedy, the sensational aspects of it are what "sell the papers". If the media reported the millions (and, yes, I do mean millions) of selfless POINTED acts of kindness and selflessness, people would lose interest. *sighs*

However, know that there are millions of US citizens who ARE making a difference one bottle of water at a time, one dollar at a time, one prayer at a time.

Those who flaunt obedience to the laws of human decency should be jailed and punished to the fullest extent of the law. Rape, gunfire, robbery and looting can NOT be tolerated no matter WHO perpetrates the crime.

ManadartheHealer · Sep 03, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

As with any human tragedy, the sensational aspects of it are what "sell the papers".

I know there is good going on too. But the fact that any of these bad things are going on is horrific and completely stupid.

EchoSex · Sep 03, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I call absolute bullshit.

There were dire warnings a few days before it hit. It has been what now - 4 or 5 days? There are a mess of reports from the place (my favorite to read: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) about how absolutely craptastic the response has been.

'flop over in the end and it will just work out ' ... I see you are approaching the situation with the George W Bush approach. "It will be fine *grin*". The place is ripe with lawlessness, there are a lot of reports of NOPD being hostile to reporters, looting themselves, senseless violence, and even quitting completely. There has been reported over $50,000,000 donated, and yet there are people STARVING AND DEYHDRATING TO DEATH. Try putting yourself in the position - you are living in your beautiful US, a natural disaster occurs, and you DIE OF THIRST. In a bloody 'first-world' country. But thats okay - I mean hell, Exxon just posted a $25,000,000,000 profit (to use them as an example). Its a capitalistic society - just about making money yourself isnt it?

You sir, are a hack.

Wow way to be a Jerk. I can have my own opinion, and it appears that things in my life just end up working out. Why? Because life goes on, it doesn't stop for things like this. Withen a while, this eventualy will sort out. Do you REALLY think we'd leave the homeland in this kind of state? Come on now, yee have little faith. It's not like Louisiana is going to be a hell hole for the rest of time, right?

Crimson_1190 · Sep 03, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

What ever happened to the concept of the individualist? I mean schools try to water down the concept that even the mountain men and the cowboys, and yankees of yesteryear, were fictional images conjured up by a patriotic people, but is that not something to strive for. Eh, i am going to get yelled at for this but i really don't care. What happened is tragic, but the fact is that i do not understand why people are blaming the federal government the way they are....they didn't plan....blah blah. I mean how do you plan for something this bad, and why SHOULD the federal government be involved in everything...i say this because I was reading today that the world seems to condemn the president over this, and the need for "a strong government to help the poor" making this some kind of classist crap. I mean come friggen' on...nothing comes without a price...blarg. Everyone expecting everything to be done for them.
When I grew up, (even in the 80's as it was,) i learned the value of always being prepared, because in life you can't truly rely on anyone other than yourself. What happens when everything goes to hell... as for people not leaving, it is not like this just came in the middle of the night...and it is not like bus fare or even walking is that expensive these days. As for the people who remain to loot...as mentioned wiht people before. i sympathize with looting necessities, but all of this, the rape, the murder...shoot to kill. I doubt society will miss such humaniterians...

the other thing that annoys me is the classist crap about those who left....because HOT DAMN THEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED and suffered like everyone else. Without people thinking for a moment if they had the means they would have left too....oh wait they could have.

It is not classist, not racist, it is a natural DISASTER...other countries may laugh and complain but i doubt they would do much better... help the people that need help. but what i take away is that you should always be prepared....

EchoSex · Sep 03, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson_1190

What ever happened to the concept of the individualist? I mean schools try to water down the concept that even the mountain men and the cowboys, and yankees of yesteryear, were fictional images conjured up by a patriotic people, but is that not something to strive for. Eh, i am going to get yelled at for this but i really don't care. What happened is tragic, but the fact is that i do not understand why people are blaming the federal government the way they are....they didn't plan....blah blah. I mean how do you plan for something this bad, and why SHOULD the federal government be involved in everything...i say this because I was reading today that the world seems to condemn the president over this, and the need for "a strong government to help the poor" making this some kind of classist crap. I mean come friggen' on...nothing comes without a price...blarg. Everyone expecting everything to be done for them.
When I grew up, (even in the 80's as it was,) i learned the value of always being prepared, because in life you can't truly rely on anyone other than yourself. What happens when everything goes to hell... as for people not leaving, it is not like this just came in the middle of the night...and it is not like bus fare or even walking is that expensive these days. As for the people who remain to loot...as mentioned wiht people before. i sympathize with looting necessities, but all of this, the rape, the murder...shoot to kill. I doubt society will miss such humaniterians...

the other thing that annoys me is the classist crap about those who left....because HOT DAMN THEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED and suffered like everyone else. Without people thinking for a moment if they had the means they would have left too....oh wait they could have.

It is not classist, not racist, it is a natural DISASTER...other countries may laugh and complain but i doubt they would do much better... help the people that need help. but what i take away is that you should always be prepared....

Another good point. People always want to blame someone, so they usually tend to look towards the higher authority, someone who they THINK controls everything, like the president.

Andy06r · Sep 03, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I love how the new orleans issue is now a race issue and when they presented that news to the cnn anchor (forgot his name) he immediately says "(this is a bunch of crap) isnt new orleans 75% black with a black mayor and black power structure?"

Basic math will tell you that the people left behind are likely black because...75% of the town is black. Oh wait, thats to obvious...racism! yes, racism, thats what it is (its good news to). Nevermind that at the basest of statistics, all things equal, 3 out of 4 people are black. And I highly doubt that the 25% of non-blacks are "rich white men" who fled the storm. Nope, instead its "one of the worst civil rights issues to surface in this country." really...

edit - to clarify, since my quote of the anchor can be taken wrong, the ( ) is what he isnt saying, but thinking as noted by his facial expressions, not my personal opinion.

PieXags · Sep 03, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Those with enough money who weren't stopped by other means did leave the city, both white and black.

tear · Sep 03, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoSex

It's a friggen hurricane, get over it. Crap happens.

This is a fucking joke, right? You're fucking kidding.

And anyone comparing this to their own experiences, no points for you, give up. Yes, you're amazing and everyone is impressed. Your survival skills (and the size of your genitals) are something we can only dream of achieving. But this situation is different than yours, k?

Anyone thinking these people deserve what came to them, and that the government shouldn't be doing all they can (and more than they have been) to fix things should stfu and gtfo. Go figure out what the word "life" means, and why it is more important than any mistakes some of these people may or may not have made.