Curse

DreamRunner · Apr 25, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Education is a hoax. Its easy to see this by asking people what degree they're doing at Uni or what subjects they're doing at School. A lot of people say "I wanna become a Electrical Engineer" and quite often do many things that they don't enjoy doing and learning. People do subjects at school just to get a better mark overall. Its a problem because people see learning as a type of journey and the purpose is to get to that end of the journey, but they miss the entire point all the way through, it was meant to be an experience that you're want to enjoy. Even in outside world, where people have jobs; they try to reach the "success" which usually means lots of money or the CEO of an company as the end of the journey.

Redfeather1975 · Apr 25, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I saw a commercial for the Karate Kid on AMC.
Mr Miyagi said "No such thing as bad student. Only bad teacher."

Celestial_Kitsune · Apr 25, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Education is a hoax. Its easy to see this by asking people what degree they're doing at Uni or what subjects they're doing at School. A lot of people say "I wanna become a Electrical Engineer" and quite often do many things that they don't enjoy doing and learning. People do subjects at school just to get a better mark overall. Its a problem because people see learning as a type of journey and the purpose is to get to that end of the journey, but they miss the entire point all the way through, it was meant to be an experience that you're want to enjoy. Even in outside world, where people have jobs; they try to reach the "success" which usually means lots of money or the CEO of an company as the end of the journey.

I think I understand what you mean. People often take classes just to meet certain requirements - they might not enjoy the classes at all. Often your salary is determined by the degree you have. Of course there are some exceptions of extraordinary people achieving great things with little formal education, but most of us can't do that. Thus, we have to earn a degree.

There might be many obstacles in that road. In fact, some colleges have special "weed out" classes with sadistic teachers. These classes are a test of your will and desire. They test whether you really want to become what you set out to be. These classes are quite hard and might be not interesting at all, but you have to take them. Not all courses are like that though.

Later on, when you take more advanced classes, the subjects will be more interesting and engaging. In the end, it is easy to say that the system sucks, that these classes are terrible, but you as an individual can change your perception. Even in the most boring class you can try to think of the possibilities, ask your teacher questions, think how it the material relates to your future profession. These proactive steps will make your studying more interesting. However, it is understandable that sometimes life is too tough and you just don't have time to think about such things.

I feel it is important to distinguish between schooling and education. Some information is taught to you in classes, but I found that the most useful skills and knowledge I learned by myself or outside formal classroom. Thus, even the most terrible college program can be enriched by your own edification.

Steve Jobs - Standord Commencement Speech 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA

Redfeather1975 · Apr 25, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

My father spent a year in frustration trying to teach me how to catch and throw a ball. My mother's boyfriend spent an hour before figuring out I was left handed in most things except sports.

I think the education system should have a more active department responsible for identifying a student's strengths and weaknesses.

Also this might sound absurd, but I think smaller classes directed more towards the visual, auditory, or tactile learning styles would help students find their best learning environment.

DreamRunner · Apr 25, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune

...

Pretty cool speech. Its how information is sorta transfered, I guess. But the journey analogy that I was referring too before is also with assessments or anything. Students are just doing things to finish it. I remember back in my first year at Uni, a lot of the students that just came out of high school didn't want to talk about the stuff we learned in philosophy outside of class. I found this strange because at first I wondered if I was coming off as boring and then I discussed my ideas on my many lecturer's and got a good response from them, so I norrowed it down to that, many student don't know what they do like when they are at Uni. I also find that I learn the best out of discussing things with other people.

I should have linked this before.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKr...eature=related

dunky_g · Apr 25, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Im at Uni.

School was pretty easy and a walk through.

So was 6th form.

Uni is Easy in a sence its what you want to do, just with a more indepth coverage.

ConstantineReznor · Apr 27, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

To me education means success. In other words, a successful career and future. But it's important that you enjoy what you're doing. When I see most students at colleges and universities studying and waiting to graduate to get their degree and go off into the workforce, like drones, I feel pity for them. Waking up and going to work from 9-5, doing the same things over and over. Before I got to where I'm working today, I never meant people who actually think out of the box and enjoyed what they were doing.

This new perspective gave me a different view in life and it changed the direction I wanted my life to go. These people I meant are investment bankers, venture capitalists, executives from media/entertainment firms, and other top management positions. All of these successful individuals have their education to thank where they are today. These people have what I call the three R's: Respect, Rich, Responsibility. I'm currently the CGO of the company I work for and I model my future after these successful people. With success, everything falls to place. Trust me, out of the blue you instantly become somewhat "famous" lol. For the guys, with success comes the ladies, the cars, etc. You know what I mean.

From my experience in today's fast business world, networking is the key. Take my word for it.

Divinitys Creature · Apr 27, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenDelight

The ultimate goal of education is to conform the individual to the mold deemed worthy to exist. It's a way of life, a thought process, a training program for existence in reality.

"Rational and fulfilling." Laughable at best. Same time, same place, same work, tediousness at its climax. An eradication of spontaneity. Irregularities removed. How? Through education, prepped for capitalism.

Before you become aware of it ~1/4 of your life was plugged into this system. Were you notified? Were you asked? Did you really even have a CHOICE?

"Choice is an illusion between those with power and those without..."

How can you have free will when you are programmed before you can understand what is happening? What you feel you want or desires you think that come from inside you.. were they from you or what was put inside you? I don't feel we practically have any choice. Those of us that try and live differently face overwhelming opposition.

poobert · Apr 28, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

How can you have free will when you are programmed before you can understand what is happening? What you feel you want or desires you think that come from inside you.. were they from you or what was put inside you? I don't feel we practically have any choice. Those of us that try and live differently face overwhelming opposition.

True. It is the technique communism failed to use. You don't tell them what to think, rather how to think it. People are not told what job they can have and what they can't, but rather made to think that they themselves have arrived at an option of things to do (which all are effectively the same).

People that don't go to University end up in a dead end job, working for a pittance. People who go to University end up in the same dead end job, but it is wrapped up with sparkle and slightly more cash (that the government is going to tax you on anyway).

The people who are most admired in the world are those that have broken free of the rat race. Celebrities, the worlds rich, entrepreneurs etc. 99% of people never break free, but knowing that it is possible makes them content.

DreamRunner · Apr 28, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

How can you have free will when you are programmed before you can understand what is happening? What you feel you want or desires you think that come from inside you.. were they from you or what was put inside you? I don't feel we practically have any choice. Those of us that try and live differently face overwhelming opposition.

Oh how deterministic. Are you a supporter in Hard Determinism?

Divinitys Creature · Apr 28, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Sometimes I really do feel this way. Having read physics, I can see how everything can be deterministic because what is seemingly a complex world could be reduced to a relatively small set of numbers with some assumptions

DreamRunner · Apr 29, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

Sometimes I really do feel this way. Having read physics, I can see how everything can be deterministic because what is seemingly a complex world could be reduced to a relatively small set of numbers with some assumptions

Actually I would see it the other way around. I mean if you look at the world in detail, things get more complex. I can understand the idea of why people who do study physics can see why determinism is true, this is because of laws that govern us to be must happen. eg Newtons law of motion F=ma and whatever situation it you want to apply to F=ma; It means it MUST happen rather than probably happen.

However, if that is true then all elementary particles also must be deterministic, and so is everything in the universe. Every persons beliefs and desires are also deterministic if this is true, but then we look at the Quantum Theory and find that behavior of particles are not deterministic. :S So this leaves that some futures are more probably than others, but the number of possibilities is always greater than one.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 29, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Hey guys, I go to yale.

Etta · Apr 29, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

If anyone apply for a designer position at my place without a BA Hons degree, forget about it. Oh yeah if you don't pass our Mac test, forget about it as well.

C R A F T · Apr 29, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Most of these posts are the reason I'm for school vouchers, against teacher unions/tenure, and believe in not passing students who have failed.

I know it's harsh, but try living without an education.

Divinitys Creature · Apr 29, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Actually I would see it the other way around. I mean if you look at the world in detail, things get more complex. I can understand the idea of why people who do study physics can see why determinism is true, this is because of laws that govern us to be must happen. eg Newtons law of motion F=ma and whatever situation it you want to apply to F=ma; It means it MUST happen rather than probably happen.

However, if that is true then all elementary particles also must be deterministic, and so is everything in the universe. Every persons beliefs and desires are also deterministic if this is true, but then we look at the Quantum Theory and find that behavior of particles are not deterministic. :S So this leaves that some futures are more probably than others, but the number of possibilities is always greater than one.

Heh I'm happy to continue this in another thread if you want to

C R A F T · Jun 06, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Both of my parents have been teachers at grade-school and college levels; I had my mom in Kindergarten and my dad (the principal) in 4th and 6th grade. He had a teacher who would verbally abuse kids and it took nearly 3 years to fire that teacher, all the while drawing a paycheck.

Get rid of tenure and the teacher's union. (Both of these make it very hard to get rid of poor performing teachers.)

Increase their pay substantially and make the positions competitive. (Competition for a limited number of positions makes for better workers and ones that take more pride in their work.)

Kanyatta · Jun 06, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Grade school through High School is just bad schooling.

College/Universities are just a way to make money off of you. Colleges are businesses, like it or not, and exist to make a profit.