Curse

Winterclaw · Jul 20, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

If PST was so great there would have been a sequal of some kind.

And I stand by what I said earlier. I hated PS:T's characters and story for the most part.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

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If PST was so great there would have been a sequal of some kind.

Yes because all good RPG's have sequels. It's pretty amusing, you say FF7, and yet FF7 has no sequel. Must not be great then lol. Some games are meant to be a single package, and don't need sequels because everything the game does is already good, and it begins, and it ends. There is nothing more they could do for a sequel, if you actually paid attention to the lore and even had 5% clue what the Blood War is.

Also, Black Isle Studios is defunct, there is no one to make a sequel.

Sleeper Service · Jul 20, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Yes because all good RPG's have sequels. It's pretty amusing, you say FF7, and yet FF7 has no sequel. Must not be great then lol. Some games are meant to be a single package, and don't need sequels because everything the game does is already good, and it begins, and it ends. There is nothing more they could do for a sequel, if you actually paid attention to the lore and even had 5% clue what the Blood War is.

Also, Black Isle Studios is defunct, there is no one to make a sequel.

"ff7 has no sequel" are you crazy? its THE single most exploited FF title out there.

yes a lot of it was shit sure but i hear good things about FF7 Crisis Core and theres talk of a remake of FF7 for ps3.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

"ff7 has no sequel" are you crazy? its THE single most exploited FF title out there.

yes a lot of it was shit sure but i hear good things about FF7 Crisis Core and theres talk of a remake of FF7 for ps3.

None of them are sequels.

EDIT:
And I wish you guys would stop bringing up other games. Planescape isn't like them at all.

zwei2stein · Jul 20, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

If PST was so great there would have been a sequal of some kind.

PST Story was self contained, there is no way how to continue it without breaking PST. PST sequel would be just like any sequel made to milk franchise: failure. Morte and gang springing nameles one from hell? Oh please.

Its like asking for sequel for LOTR. Possible, but it would be crappy by design.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

And I stand by what I said earlier. I hated PS:T's characters and story for the most part.

Then there is no point explaining to you it was great game, because its characters and story make it best rpg ever for other people.

Abedeus · Jul 20, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

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If PST was so great there would have been a sequal of some kind.

But then you would have more things like Matrix. First part classic, second average, third crappy.

Snograt · Jul 20, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Hmm, all this talk has made me want to play PS:T again. Been far too long.

Bet I can't though - Vista x64.

Must see if there's a 64-bit DOSBox out there :/

Giga Strike · Jul 20, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Well, note it's sexual innuendo jokes using their slang, and there isn't many of them. He does more normal jokes than anything. It was rated T for Teen for the ESRB so there is nothing overly crude or terrible.

o good. i thought he was gonna sound like duke nukem.

Winterclaw · Jul 20, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

A few points: by sequal I meant there was another game in that setting. Kind of like how Kotor II was in the same setting as 1 but not a direct sequal with the same characters. Face it, the game wasn't that great and BI didn't even want to touch that setting again. Someone else could have picked up the rights to the franchise and do another game in that setting, but I don't see it flying off of the shelf. Likewise I don't see many books based on sigil or whatever the city was called.

FF7 has had a prequal, an off sequal (that shooter game), a movie about it, and I think there was a book or two as well. Not to mention cloud showed up in FF:T even if he wasn't all that great. Yeah, Square sure did nothing with that franchise.

Finally just because a handful of people think it's the greatest RPG ever doesn't make it so for the rest of us.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

If you think a game needs a sequel to be good/great, then you are a part of what is wrong with this industry.

First off, the game had rave reviews, sold well (in fact, all the copies made sold pretty much).

Second off, they were nearly defunct by the time they were working on it actually. Interplay pushed them to release it early, and so the game is actually a bit unfinished (it's a complete game, but some side quests got cut.). Fans have readded most of this stuff back in however. BI was sad they didn't get to finish the game.

Third off, you don't "get the rights to the franchise". Planescape is a universe made by completely different people that BI got permission to use.

Fourth off, they turned defunct soon after working on their next project: BG2.

Fifth off, don't talk about things you don't know. There is a ton of material on the Planescape D&D universe, a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ton. It's a very old setting for AD&D however, and there is no equivalent in 3.0/3.5/4.0 because the creator's never took the time to convert it to those rulesets, and left that in the hands of the players.

Get a clue before you say random bad things about it, that aren't even true if you knew a lick about Black Isle Studios, their situation with Interplay, and their situation in general. Also, please do not twist the definition of sequel to suit you.

EDIT:
Also FF:T was one of the best games in the FF franchise, sales and reviews wise. They're just milking the franchise for money however, because fanboys will eat that shit up. Dirge of Cerberus is complete crap and yet it sold a shit ton of copies just for being related to FF7.

EDIT EDIT:
Now to address people who are actually on-topic and have a clue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Hmm, all this talk has made me want to play PS:T again. Been far too long.

Bet I can't though - Vista x64.

Must see if there's a 64-bit DOSBox out there :/

I'm not sure, but doesn't 64-bit have emulation for 32-bit programs or something??? If you disable hardware acceleration it should work if this is the case!

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Originally Posted by Giga Strike

o good. i thought he was gonna sound like duke nukem.

hahahaa. No. He's not that bad. He's pretty funny and dark about it, but he isn't crude at all. It's more of a "haha, I can't believe he said that." rather than ".....he really said that? wow...;/"

Winterclaw · Jul 20, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

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If you think a game needs a sequel to be good/great, then you are a part of what is wrong with this industry.

It helps. Especailly since it is a DnD game and those tend to have sequals when they are good.

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Second off, they were nearly defunct by the time they were working on it actually. Interplay pushed them to release it early, and so the game is actually a bit unfinished (it's a complete game, but some side quests got cut.). Fans have readded most of this stuff back in however. BI was sad they didn't get to finish the game.

A great game could help save a studio, especially if it sold well.

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Third off, you don't "get the rights to the franchise". Planescape is a universe made by completely different people that BI got permission to use.

There's this thing called money that you can use to buy it with. Crazy concept I know, but it works usually.

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Fourth off, they turned defunct soon after working on their next project: BG2.

They didn't turn defunct, Interplay flopped and took them down with it. Now someone could have picked up the team, but they went their own seperate ways. And it wasn't BGII because they lasted a little longer than that. BI was pretty much torpedoed when their Torn game was cancelled.

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It's a very old setting for AD&D

Largely forgotten you mean. And the last time I checked the bookstore there wasn't a ton of PS fiction books on the shelves.

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Get a clue before you say random bad things about it

Like how you are saying bad things about Xenosaga and FFVII?

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Also, please do not twist the definition of sequel to suit you.

There are many kinds of sequals and they could be done in many ways. Please don't twist it and narrow it to suit you.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

ok first off it is sequel.

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It helps. Especailly since it is a DnD game and those tend to have sequals when they are good.

We don't need more sequels. We need original games. Planescape wouldn't work as a sequel. The story begins, ends. That's it. Making a sequel/prequel/anything would destroy it.

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A great game could help save a studio, especially if it sold well.

95% of all games in the game industry do not turn a profit, or a sizeable enough one. Black Isle Studios was defunct mostly because of Interplay.

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There's this thing called money that you can use to buy it with. Crazy concept I know, but it works usually.

You don't really get it do you? The Planescape creators aren't going to sell their entire RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing universe to a game company. They lent the rights to Black Isle Studios for one game. That's it! Why? Because Black Isle Studios makes great D&D games. They haven't lent the rights to anyone, and wouldn't sell it to anyone anyways.

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They didn't turn defunct, Interplay flopped and took them down with it. Now someone could have picked up the team, but they went their own seperate ways. And it wasn't BGII because they lasted a little longer than that. BI was pretty much torpedoed when their Torn game was cancelled.

Again, don't talk about stuff you do not know. I said they started to go defunct after BG2, which they did, around the time of Torn and Fallout 3, because Interplay laid off most of their workers. Interplay itself didn't go down until much later.

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Largely forgotten you mean. And the last time I checked the bookstore there wasn't a ton of PS fiction books on the shelves.

Hmmmm and why is that? I think the million dollar answer is that AD&D came out in the later 1970s. Bookstores not selling content from 30 years ago? NO WAY!!

I go into a videogame store and I don't see Sega Genesis or NES cartridges anymore. Does that mean they are forgotten? Nope.

You can still find Planescape material at most D&D shops that carry AD&D materials.

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Like how you are saying bad things about Xenosaga and FFVII?

Except, if you showed anyone with an actual degree in literature FF7 and told them it was "a really good story", they would laugh at you straight in the face and probably think you are a complete idiot.

Planescape: Torment has actually been respected and mentioned by literary people such as here: http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/...es/27game.html in the New York Times.

FF7 and Xenosaga both suffer from the standard RPG flaws: the characters rarely grow, when they grow they grow in a horribly predictable way, they use rape the dog moments to make the villains seem "badass" or to just show "how evil they TRULY are", the characters lack depth (btw you still haven't shown me how Cloud or Sephiroth have more or even equal depth as a basic secondary character in Planescape: Torment.), the characters only seem vaguely realistic and just seem like they are "there", instead of being a part of a living breathing world, the characters rarely interact with each other outside of cutscenes, the characters rarely have a purpose for what they are doing other than "to save the day" or "do the right thing", very little of the characters have actual problems, the writer's did not write from what they know, instead writing from generic RPG tendencies...do I really have to keep going on how these 2 works completely suck from a literary standpoint, or do I really have to get people who have majored in English and Literature to sign up just to show you how uneducated you are being? Are FF7 and Xenosaga, "good" RPG stories? Yeah sure. Are they paramount literary works of genius? lol no.

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There are many kinds of sequals and they could be done in many ways. Please don't twist it and narrow it to suit you.

Sequel - n.
a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work.

nope. pretty sure you are wrong here.

You've made your point: you like fantasy stuff, don't get the philosophical depth to the game, don't like the game because you obviously don't "get it" and keep comparing it to other RPGs when it clearly isn't, and that's that.

Now, if you could kindly please stop degenerating the topic, I would much appreciate it. We all know you don't like it. That's great. Please stop making the same point 500 times over. This isn't Final Fantasy 7, and anyone who likes it even remotely is thanking whoever they worship that it isn't, because it's a different game, that focuses on what RPGs should be about, and it does that phenomally.

Sleeper Service · Jul 20, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

ah i was right finally after all.

lol literature... PS:T is NOT literature its a well written entertaining game and thats it.

"It feels like I've been strained through somebody's bowels."

yeah thats great literature right there.

christ what do you expect? you make a thread like this and rant about how its your TENTH time playing it and how awesome and *foam foam* it is and then slate any other game that you happen not to like.

OK we got the point you like pst, you really reallyreallyreallyreallyreally like it.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

but I'm not even saying I like it constantly at every post, I'm just trying to argue points with this guy and defending the game with facts and going against another with facts (it's pretty hard to argue facts about a literary work, in fact I can point out in detail every single thing I mentioned above in every single game (even Xenogears) for the entire Xenosaga series, every Final Fantasy game, et al)! I actually do like Final Fantasy 7 and Xenosaga (I own them all, including Xenogears and even Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

), but I do not think they are anything more than they are. PS:T is literature as much as any story is. Any story is literature, whether it is confined in the pages of a book, or in the animation of a movie. I took a line that is a pretty decent introduction statement that sets the mood of the entire game and you take that as an entire conflicting point of the prowess of the game's story itself, which is kinda silly, no? :/

"Make a thread like this", I am merely advertising the game to people who might have overlooked it. Yes, it's my 10th time playing it, because I'm still trying to find stuff I missed (I'm a perfectionist), but I know the game has flaws: graphics, issues on later hardware, side quests that never got finished, some of the side quests are way too hidden, the arcs never got finished with the romantic interests, some of it is a bit too "hidden" in general (some people might not understand the old English slang), etc. The game has faults, it isn't "perfect", but it is a damn fine RPG. I am sorry if you take "Fact.", something that is quite obviously a sarcastic statement, as a truth and this somehow upsets you to instantly name 500 other RPGs in a topic that isn't about them. This isn't the Final Fantasy 7 topic, or the Xenosaga topic, or the anything topic. It's the Planescape: Torment topic!

i died to a skeleton lol

stupid skeletons.

Bryant Again · Jul 20, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

A while or so I've been saying that Daggerfall was the best RPG ever made. But when I look back upon DF, Planescape and BG2, I have to put all of them on the same pedestal, although DF's position is a bit more personal to me.

All in all, though, Planescape and pretty much any game with the words "Black Isle" and "Bioware" on the box is pure gold. Go buy it, you assholes!

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

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Originally Posted by Bryant Again

A while or so I've been saying that Daggerfall was the best RPG ever made. But when I look back upon DF, Planescape and BG2, I have to put all of them on the same pedestal, although DF's position is a bit more personal to me.

All in all, though, Planescape and pretty much any game with the words "Black Isle" and "Bioware" on the box is pure gold. Go buy it, you assholes!

Oh man Daggerfall.

That game is so huge. Jesus.

I definitely agree, if you can find this game BUY IT. Or any of those games too. BUYYY THEMMM.

Also I finally killed the skeletons, I'm trying to decide how I want to end this, which faction I want to go towards......:hmm:

Also IDK if anyone ever went there, but in one of the factions places, there is this room with tons of orbs, that you just read text off of and get assloads of XP.

Etta · Jul 20, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Fallout is better. Fact.

lol, just pulling your legs. P:T's ending is perhaps one of the best and saddest ending ever. That fallen angel storyline bit was great as well, my favorite bit infact. If you play with high int you'll get even more out of the whole things. "When was the last time that you've spoken to your father, Trias?"

Playing this game was like reading a really good book.

Leave WRPG vs JRPG outside the door before coming in here, this isn't gamefaqs forum.

Winterclaw · Jul 20, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

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95% of all games in the game industry do not turn a profit, or a sizeable enough one. Black Isle Studios was defunct mostly because of Interplay.

That sounds as bad as hollywood. Still, if you can find a way to work out the economics which interplay/bi couldn't, you can't stay in business.

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They lent the rights to Black Isle Studios for one game. That's it! Why? Because Black Isle Studios makes great D&D games. They haven't lent the rights to anyone, and wouldn't sell it to anyone anyways.

Bioware is better at DnD games.

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Bookstores not selling content from 30 years ago? NO WAY!!

So where's the new written material that all of the other setting have, including the rare ravenloft novel?

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Except, if you showed anyone with an actual degree in literature FF7 and told them it was "a really good story", they would laugh at you straight in the face and probably think you are a complete idiot.

FFVII had it's flaws as well, and I perfer FFX, but it was better than PS:T and had better characters. Anyways, I have my doubts about people who get a degree in literature because all of them like shakespeare.

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the characters only seem vaguely realistic and just seem like they are "there", instead of being a part of a living breathing world, the characters rarely interact with each other outside of cutscenes, the characters rarely have a purpose for what they are doing other than "to save the day" or "do the right thing", very little of the characters have actual problems

Ziggy had issues. Momo and junior did to a lesser degree. That one military guy was pretty messed up. I'd say some of the characters had personalities and those probably would have gotten farther if all 6 games could have been made.

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Sequel - n.
a literary work, movie, etc., that is complete in itself but continues the narrative of a preceding work.

nope. pretty sure you are wrong here.

They could have easily done a story that featured the one or two of the other characters and had nothing to do with TNO.

Esan · Jul 21, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Planescape: Torment irritated me to no end by the clumsiness of its interface. They should remake it using modern technology, because the story is fantastic. Too bad it won't happen.

Golgotha · Jul 21, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

PS:T is the pinnacle of gaming. I can't respect anyone's opinion who says otherwise. There has yet to be a game that transcends the medium as Planescape did. The fact that you have no clue whats going on the entire story, only to find out at the end and be blown away. How many movies, books or games attempted the "deep plot twist" route only to fall flat on their faces? This is as good, if not better, than any twist ever. The dialog? Superb. The story? Immaculate. The characters? More memorable than your own family.

1. PS:T.
2. Fallout
3. Bloodlines

BTW, anyone interested in Daggerfall, you'll have to run it in Dosbox.