Curse

Esan · Jun 11, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

For those not in the know, the new WoW expansion "Wrath of the Lich King" will add a new feature called "achievements". Kotaku has the skinny.

Now, as we are preternaturally unable to resist comparing WoW and GW, does it not seem like this feature borrows heavily from GW? No deaths until level 15 is just a cheapo survivor. The quests achievements are just a watered down protector. What WoW has and GW doesn't is achievements such as "do a quest every day for X days", which is rewarding players for being married to the game, something GW has always claimed to be against its design principles. If WoW starts to rank people based on completion times, then they'll just have re-invented challenge ladders. The only real difference seems to be that WoW rewards the players with "points" that can presumably be traded for phat lewt, whereas titles in GW are more of a monastic pursuit.

I am not naive enough to think that GW invented titles, and, as the Kotaku posters point out, "achievements" also exist in other MMORPGs such as LotRO. Indeed, WoW had reputation ranks long before they were added to GW. But, we at Guru have formed a consensus that titles are just a cheap way to extend the playtime of a moribund game, which makes one wonder why WoW is taking this step. By all available statistics, WoW has never been healthier.

One possibility is that, just like Anet, Blizzard has a new game on the horizon (Diablo III) that will steal a large section of the playerbase from its current game. (Strictly speaking, Blizzard has two: StarCraft 2 is the other big monster in the room that might just about kill the MMORPG genre singlehandedly.) Have Blizzard started to see the writing on the wall, just like Anet did long ago?

Dante the Warlord · Jun 11, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

WoW is probably the most grinding game ever, i don't see why they can't borrow from GW, if it works then it works, why reinvent the wheel? With the titles, they will be able to keep a player in the game for at least 1-2 months while they charge them and get enough money to advertise and bring in new players and repeat the cycle.

Thats one thing I hate about WoW is that it is basically GW that demands too much out of your personal life, including massive payments. But i digress....

Adding more grind will give them lots more money to invest either in their game or future investments... Its really a cycle.. so when they get all this money from WoW, they can make even better features and get more people, or divert the money to get better servers, new games...etc.

Its really the same reason why they upgrade all the armor and level cap...because then all the L33t players aren't l33t unless they keep paying WoW...its just a big scam, but its a scam thats addicting

azzer20 · Jun 11, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Dante, get your facts right, there's more grind in GW than WoW.

I won't tell why, it will be to long a post, but before saying anything, you might want to look up things.

pumpkin pie · Jun 11, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Its only logical to copy from the best.

RedNova88 · Jun 11, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzer20

Dante, get your facts right, there's more grind in GW than WoW.

I won't tell why, it will be to long a post, but before saying anything, you might want to look up things.

Grind in WoW is NOT optional if you want to do ANYTHING other than hit the level cap since nearly all power in that game revolves around the next best item... And if you don't have it you're just a "scrub". The titles were added into GW because people were complaining that they didn't have anything to do, don't forget GW was never originally intended for the hardcore player, so saying it has more grind than WoW doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Back on topic it's normal for companies to copy things already tried and true, that way they don't have to take any risks themselves, just copy and paste. Why do you think every MMO/RPG in general you see the same races, or another example is WWII games like the MoH and CoD series. CoD5 is already being made and it's going back to WWII already (go figure).

And for the record Lineage 2 is probably the grindiest.

MrSlayer · Jun 11, 2008, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNova88

Grind in WoW is NOT optional if you want to do ANYTHING other than hit the level cap since nearly all power in that game revolves around the next best item... And if you don't have it you're just a "scrub". The titles were added into GW because people were complaining that they didn't have anything to do, don't forget GW was never originally intended for the hardcore player, so saying it has more grind than WoW doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Back on topic it's normal for companies to copy things already tried and true, that way they don't have to take any risks themselves, just copy and paste. Why do you think every MMO/RPG in general you see the same races, or another example is WWII games like the MoH and CoD series. CoD5 is already being made and it's going back to WWII already (go figure).

And for the record Lineage 2 is probably the grindiest.

Have you ever actually played WoW? Because I can't see how you have.

Levelling in WoW is the same as GW: you follow quests instead of missions, and you can do Dungeons which are instances with quests which gives LARGE amounts of XP.

At 70, you can raid and get good gear, but no grind is required. If you want exalted with a Faction, you don't need to grind...you can just go buy X item and trade it for X rep repeatedly. No grind there beyond farming, just like in GW. And if you don't want to farm, well use the AH or just trades to make cash. Sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?

So what about PvP? Well there's PvP gear too...and that doesn't require a grind. Just the same as GW...the PvP areas (WSG, AB etc) all offer their own rewards, which can be traded in for items.

GW has alot more necessary grind that WoW.

Bryant Again · Jun 11, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I considered it more "ripping off" on the 360.

ccruzp · Jun 11, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzer20

Dante, get your facts right, there's more grind in GW than WoW.

I won't tell why, it will be to long a post, but before saying anything, you might want to look up things.

In GW grinding is optional , in WoW its mandatory, if you want to be a "god walking amongst mere mortals" gw beats wow in griding, if you just want to pvp or acess end game pve stuff ocasially, well... then dont play wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlayer

Have you ever actually played WoW? Because I can't see how you have.

Levelling in WoW is the same as GW: you follow quests instead of missions, and you can do Dungeons which are instances with quests which gives LARGE amounts of XP.

At 70, you can raid and get good gear, but no grind is required. If you want exalted with a Faction, you don't need to grind...you can just go buy X item and trade it for X rep repeatedly. No grind there beyond farming, just like in GW. And if you don't want to farm, well use the AH or just trades to make cash. Sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?

So what about PvP? Well there's PvP gear too...and that doesn't require a grind. Just the same as GW...the PvP areas (WSG, AB etc) all offer their own rewards, which can be traded in for items.

GW has alot more necessary grind that WoW.

3 lvls 70, afliction warlock and shadow priest w/ full merciless gladiators, warrior tank for instances went as far as Kael and stoped playing b4 they released the troll temple instance.

wow took me 2 months avarage to get to 60, ( heard they increased xp rewards now so idk) took me 3-4 more weeks to get from 60-70
every time i create a new character in wow i had to go through all that shit again, even if i just wanted to see if i even liked plaing a new class.

In gw it takes me 2 days tops to get a newly created char to 20, max armor, weap and all skills i want in pve and 30 secs to do it in pvp.

About the raid things, dont fool yourself, its grinding for gear that will be outdated in the next month, all raid guilds i joined would farm the same stance till all members had top gear for that stance then move on to farm a slightly more "difficult" place. Not very different from Farming UW , FoW, DoA, Urgoz, Deep aor any otehr dungeon for skins but the thing is you dont need the skin for anything other then self acomplishment, and your 5k longsword w/ shortsword skin from the crafter at Droks Forge is just as effective as that r9 Ethernal blade that your friend payed 100k +xxes or repetedly cleared uw for, now try to buy Merchant gear in WoW and get 25 friends together to enter black Temple and see how far you can go.

Comparing pvp gear in wow to pvp gear in gw is also just wrong, you will have to grind your ass out till u get top stuff on one Character and if god forbides you decide to change specs you are in for grinding that all again.

Only things i see WoW have over GW is the AH, lack of Ursan, and boring pve titles that are not even nescessary for anything exept bad pugs.

Esan · Jun 11, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Ugh. Why is anyone hellbent on the same old grind comparison between WoW and GW? Read the topic, people. This is about titles and el cheapo mechanics, not about ye olde grinde.

faf · Jun 11, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

This makes me sick.

Wow goes : "OMG. Anet, you CANNOT take the auction house system" and now "yo, we are stealing your title system, kthxbye".

Blizzard's a bunch of fu GOREDENGINE kers.

Earth · Jun 11, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by faf

This makes me sick.

Wow goes : "OMG. Anet, you CANNOT take the auction house system" and now "yo, we are stealing your title system, kthxbye".

Blizzard's a bunch of fu GOREDENGINE kers.

I don't really think WoW was the first with an auction house system, sorry.

netniwk · Jun 11, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by faf

This makes me sick.

Wow goes : "OMG. Anet, you CANNOT take the auction house system" and now "yo, we are stealing your title system, kthxbye".

Blizzard's a bunch of fu GOREDENGINE kers.

you can't possibly be this retarded.

Bryant Again · Jun 11, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

I don't really think WoW was the first with an auction house system, sorry.

Nor was ANet the first to have an achievement system - or titles, for that matter.

MrSlayer · Jun 11, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccruzp

In GW grinding is optional , in WoW its mandatory, if you want to be a "god walking amongst mere mortals" gw beats wow in griding, if you just want to pvp or acess end game pve stuff ocasially, well... then dont play wow.

3 lvls 70, afliction warlock and shadow priest w/ full merciless gladiators, warrior tank for instances went as far as Kael and stoped playing b4 they released the troll temple instance.

wow took me 2 months avarage to get to 60, ( heard they increased xp rewards now so idk) took me 3-4 more weeks to get from 60-70
every time i create a new character in wow i had to go through all that shit again, even if i just wanted to see if i even liked plaing a new class.

In gw it takes me 2 days tops to get a newly created char to 20, max armor, weap and all skills i want in pve and 30 secs to do it in pvp.

About the raid things, dont fool yourself, its grinding for gear that will be outdated in the next month, all raid guilds i joined would farm the same stance till all members had top gear for that stance then move on to farm a slightly more "difficult" place. Not very different from Farming UW , FoW, DoA, Urgoz, Deep aor any otehr dungeon for skins but the thing is you dont need the skin for anything other then self acomplishment, and your 5k longsword w/ shortsword skin from the crafter at Droks Forge is just as effective as that r9 Ethernal blade that your friend payed 100k +xxes or repetedly cleared uw for, now try to buy Merchant gear in WoW and get 25 friends together to enter black Temple and see how far you can go.

Comparing pvp gear in wow to pvp gear in gw is also just wrong, you will have to grind your ass out till u get top stuff on one Character and if god forbides you decide to change specs you are in for grinding that all again.

Only things i see WoW have over GW is the AH, lack of Ursan, and boring pve titles that are not even nescessary for anything exept bad pugs.

Holy crap...I have a 51 afflic lock

She totally rocks. Easiest freakin' solo play ever. I can rape quests that I read everyone else bitching about without so much as batting an eyelid. <3 Afflic.

I have a 42 Shadow priest which is stuck in a levelling hole...so planning on replacing her when I've maxed out my lock and got her the gear I want.

Every instance I've done, I've loved. I can't wait to start raiding for gear. You play for enjoyment, and if you enjoy instances then it doesn't matter it's replaced. It's a game...not freakin' RL.

netniwk · Jun 11, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlayer

Every instance I've done, I've loved. I can't wait to start raiding for gear. You play for enjoyment, and if you enjoy instances then it doesn't matter it's replaced. It's a game...not freakin' RL.

untill you find out your next tier looks like a hybrid between a clown and a banana(while,at the same time being a dress while my character is male),and you know you will be spending alot of time in it

Nightmares Hammer · Jun 11, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Even GTA4 has achievements.

Bryant Again · Jun 11, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

untill you find out your next tier looks like a hybrid between a clown and a banana(while,at the same time being a dress while my character is male),and you know you will be spending alot of time in it

In which case sux 2 b u dood!

But naw I've been there. T4 Priest sucked.

azzer20 · Jun 11, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccruzp

In GW grinding is optional , in WoW its mandatory, if you want to be a "god walking amongst mere mortals" gw beats wow in griding, if you just want to pvp or acess end game pve stuff ocasially, well... then dont play wow.

ooooookaaaayyy, you clearly haven't been playing both games, even though you say so, the reason i left GW was because if you didn't grind for titles you would be far behind others, in WoW, there IS grind, ofcourse, everygame has grind, but don't fool yourself, GW > WoW, in grind

3 lvls 70, afliction warlock and shadow priest w/ full merciless gladiators, warrior tank for instances went as far as Kael and stoped playing b4 they released the troll temple instance.

wow took me 2 months avarage to get to 60, ( heard they increased xp rewards now so idk) took me 3-4 more weeks to get from 60-70
every time i create a new character in wow i had to go through all that shit again, even if i just wanted to see if i even liked plaing a new class.

In gw it takes me 2 days tops to get a newly created char to 20, max armor, weap and all skills i want in pve and 30 secs to do it in pvp.

About the raid things, dont fool yourself, its grinding for gear that will be outdated in the next month, all raid guilds i joined would farm the same stance till all members had top gear for that stance then move on to farm a slightly more "difficult" place. Not very different from Farming UW , FoW, DoA, Urgoz, Deep aor any otehr dungeon for skins but the thing is you dont need the skin for anything other then self acomplishment, and your 5k longsword w/ shortsword skin from the crafter at Droks Forge is just as effective as that r9 Ethernal blade that your friend payed 100k +xxes or repetedly cleared uw for, now try to buy Merchant gear in WoW and get 25 friends together to enter black Temple and see how far you can go.

Comparing pvp gear in wow to pvp gear in gw is also just wrong, you will have to grind your ass out till u get top stuff on one Character and if god forbides you decide to change specs you are in for grinding that all again.

Only things i see WoW have over GW is the AH, lack of Ursan, and boring pve titles that are not even nescessary for anything exept bad pugs.

Yes, 2 days to get perfect gear everyone has and get to top level, 2 days... that's just idiotic, but at the same time, it's good.

Kanyatta · Jun 11, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzer20

Dante, get your facts right, there's more grind in GW than WoW.

Lvl 70 > Lvl 20

Wow grind > GW grind

I can reach max lvl in GW without grinding, by just playing through the game. In WoW, I have to do every single quest, spawn camp monsters and kill them for xp. By not getting titles in GW, you don't "fall behind". No one really cares about titles, its just how much time you've put in.

ccruzp · Jun 12, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzer20

Yes, 2 days to get perfect gear everyone has and get to top level, 2 days... that's just idiotic, but at the same time, it's good.

Dont edit quotes please.

I've played a lot of wow, and like i said before abt GW, your pve title tracks will only mater if ur trying to get into a PUG, im not sure you've been playing enough endgame wow to understand my point abt grind in wow.

As for GW, afaik the only place you will rly be frowned upon for not having grinded a pve title is DoA w/ the lightbringer title, all other places pugs will just ask for your norn rank and from what i see they take from r8-10, and r8 is only 1/2 way thought the points needed to 10. That IF YOU WANT TO PUG, if you dont you CAN perfectly get a guild or friends group and do any part of the game w/o ever touching pve sklls.

Lets see wow again, get lvl70 green-blue gear from quests and try casting a spell or atack a boss at the black temple(wich you will only have access after a giant series of stance quests but lets pretend its ffa), only thing ull do is MISS, same cenario w/ a tank and ull die in the first hit, same thing w/ healer ull heal for 1/4th or less the amounth you should be healing, you wont "fall back behind others" due to 33% less dmg or 10 points of dmg absorption gainst one mission, ull be a useless **** w/ absolutly no use or chance of success unless u decide to grind your soul out to keep up. PvP, the same thing, iirc pvp gear had 1-3 times the amount of hp a lvl 70 character had, not to mention the other MANY mods that will make a newly reached lvl 70 look like a lvl 1 pig when fighting someone w/ avarage gear (read: gear that took a rly long time to grind).

Just out of curiosity, how far in wow are you? dont think you have hit the Grind Wall on wow just yet, it is HUGE and there is absolutly no way around it exept maybe w8n for the next expansion where quest reward itens will be more powerful then the epic gear Death&Taxes and Nihiliun managed to get and the casual player will finally be able to storm the old top instances and kill the bosses for shits n gigles since they wont pose any chalange.

Litle revision of my part:

wow 2-3 months to get to 70 and fool yourself that you are at the same lvl of power of other lvl70s that dedicate their lives to the game(thorugh some serious Grind) and will actualy have a shot at high end pve/pvp

In gw it takes me 2 days tops to get a newly created char to 20, max armor, weap and all skills i want in pve, and be able to do all end content after doing some req missions. While falling slightly back to other players that grinded pve titles.

Back in topic: dont see why they cant add titles, if anything is something more to do, and something more to ignore if you just dont care.