Curse

Crom The Pale · Jul 23, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

That's the thing about quite a few RPGs - after you finish the main quest, some of them don't end. Look at Might and Magic 7, my brother has a level 200+ party, he finished the storyline at about level 50 or so. And especially Oblivion/Morrowind. You don't even have to touch the main quest, but even if you do finish the main quest you can still keep playing in the world.

I don't recall Final Fantasy 10 letting you continue playing a savegame after you finished the storyline.

But you never HAVE to finish the final quest! I have a saved game in FFX right before you enter the final stage and I play every now and then capturing all the monsters for the arena and then battling them. You can also explore bonus/hidden areas or go back over all that youve visited in the past. You also can work on unlocking every skill (node) on the magic/skill tree.

The same could be said of GW, you never HAVE to complete that last mission(though it doesn't "end" the game anyway) you can always skip it and keep redoing old missions and elite zones/farming/ect...

If you tighten the deffinition of RPG you wind up with nothing fitting it.

I was hoping to see some characters I hadn't before, and games....

Congrats to Murmel, that game and char look very cool!!....though I still think Alucard is the toughest all around...

Elder III · Jul 23, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

as my forum name might suggest, I'm a big fan of The Elder Scrolls series, and for good reason. I played Morrowind for 2 years straight, without either expansion installed and never finished the main quest on my first character.... I never needed to. With Oblivion I'm still playing it, and while I went and beat the main storyline first thing with my main character, I am still playing that character now.... and no end in sight. The world is so Open-ended (in both of those games) that there are literally hundreds of hours of RPG playing to do, and that doesn't even mention the nigh limitless possibilities of installing user made mods or better yet, creating your own mods. :d There are other RPG themed games out there, some are damn fine too, but TESs kicks their collective a@@.

Etta · Jul 23, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

You sir need to get a Hi-Res Morrowind pack, it'll bump up all of the game textures. You can also download Hi-Res character skin as well. Have a look around, you won't believe how great those mods are until you see them in game.

Ah goods old days.

DreamRunner · Jul 23, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Anet has stated that Guild Wars is a PvP game. Usually, PvP games aren't RPGs...

Wikipedia.

Look at most of the girls in Final Fantasy... they're all mages, you hardly (if ever) find warriors, they're dressed like skanks, and they're ridiculously dependent on males. They don't play major roles, the most important role they ever play is "boyfriend of the main character" or something.

RPGs are usually more of creating your own story... Final Fantasy is following a story that has been created by someone else.

Hah! So Guild Wars isn't an RPG because it already has a story line? And it being a PvP game must mean it can't be an RPG either. This is fantastic rational, and then we move on to the opinion of which "shitty" classes that are never mentioned on Wikipedia. By shitty, you mean worse than? So you've taken someone else opinion as your own because you've only played one game and you already have jumped to the conclusion of "shitty" classes.

Look at most of the boys in Final Fantasy... They're all warriors, you hardly(if ever) find mages, they're dressed like faggots, and they're ridiculously depended on females.... Gender roles is fun isn't it. And it isn't just the female sex.

But a RPG, which Bryant Again about Dungeons and Dragons has pointed out isn't about "creating your own story". The definition about an RPG is given as "is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters and collaboratively create or follow stories." From the beloved Wikipedia. As long as an interaction is present, it is an RPG. It is not limited to how much they're has to be in a game for it to be classified as a RPG. I mean, are you trying to argue that there has to be a certain amount of interaction of the characters towards the story?

Taurucis · Jul 23, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Hah! So Guild Wars isn't an RPG because it already has a story line? And it being a PvP game must mean it can't be an RPG either. This is fantastic rational, and then we move on to the opinion of which "shitty" classes that are never mentioned on Wikipedia. By shitty, you mean worse than? So you've taken someone else opinion as your own because you've only played one game and you already have jumped to the conclusion of "shitty" classes.

To be honest, the PvE part of Guild Wars is more like an interactive movie as well... but it's still much easier to role-play in Guild Wars than it is in Final Fantasy.

I've come across quite a few people who do RP meetings in GW, but I have never heard of anyone who has role-played something in Final Fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Look at most of the boys in Final Fantasy... They're all warriors, you hardly(if ever) find mages, they're dressed like faggots, and they're ridiculously depended on females.... Gender roles is fun isn't it. And it isn't just the female sex.

It's worse for the females, they're all mages, they're all weak, they're the typical "oh please won't someone rescue me" skanks that I want to behead with a rusty butter knife, and they're all too ... feminine.

And mages are NOT stronger than warriors, because all it really takes is an arrow through the eye or a knife in the chest to stop a mage. They're still human, they can still die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

But a RPG, which Bryant Again about Dungeons and Dragons has pointed out isn't about "creating your own story". The definition about an RPG is given as "is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters and collaboratively create or follow stories." From the beloved Wikipedia. As long as an interaction is present, it is an RPG. It is not limited to how much they're has to be in a game for it to be classified as a RPG. I mean, are you trying to argue that there has to be a certain amount of interaction of the characters towards the story?

Yes, there does.

If you're just following the storyline blindly, you're not playing your character's role. It's just like watching a movie.

Maybe my rules for an RPG are a little strict (I'm an Elder Scrolls fan myself, I've got pretty high expectations for RPGs) but Final Fantasy is not an RPG, it is an interactive movie.

World of Warcraft is an excellent example of an RPG... you make a character, you can create a little story for him/her, and you can control your character however you want. You can do quests, kill people, do dungeons... That's what I look for in an RPG - freedom of character creation and gameplay. Final Fantasy has neither.

Oh, and I usually expect RPGs to have better combat systems than "select and press enter and see what happens."

Etta · Jul 23, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Max, dearest of all my friends. Time to reinstall both of those and play them again.

You sir, have a good taste. May I suggest a "Kungfu mod" to go on the side of those 2 games as well? A man with nothing to lose just got a new weapon.

"I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings."

Crom The Pale · Jul 23, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Well...it seams this thread has wandered completely away from what I was hoping for....

Last note* As far as females in Final Fantasy maybe you should check out Tiffa and Yufi, two of the best female chars, both warriors with 0 magic really.

Bryant Again · Jul 23, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

There's much more to roleplaying then being able to craft and make your own decisions. Based on the preceding definitions you've provided, Taurucis, GTA4 is an RPG.

Genres all come with expectation. Like MMORPG's, a lot is expected of them, and if you use the term MMO too loosely then you're including online shooters into the catagory.

I consider something an RPG based on numerous factors, but chief among them is a deep level of customization found in the character creation process. If it has that, then it's an RPG in my book (and the lack of seeing all this in Oblivion is just one of the major points in many considering it not as an RPG).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murmel

Oh yes, Geralt from The Witcher.
He's got it all; sword skills, charm

, a cool scar across the eye, alchemy skills, magic....

Probably something more that I've forgotten...

Oh yes, he can spot enemies with his "enemy spotter" thingy (dunno what it's called...)

Honestly, it was really hard for me to get into the Witcher because of the character acting animations. But with the new update on it's way, I'll probably have to pick it up again.

komma · Jul 23, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

as my forum name might suggest, I'm a big fan of The Elder Scrolls series, and for good reason. I played Morrowind for 2 years straight, without either expansion installed and never finished the main quest on my first character.... I never needed to. With Oblivion I'm still playing it, and while I went and beat the main storyline first thing with my main character, I am still playing that character now.... and no end in sight. The world is so Open-ended (in both of those games) that there are literally hundreds of hours of RPG playing to do, and that doesn't even mention the nigh limitless possibilities of installing user made mods or better yet, creating your own mods. :d There are other RPG themed games out there, some are damn fine too, but TESs kicks their collective a@@.

agreed camona tong fo life

Bryant Again · Jul 23, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

You know, speaking more about MW, I'd have to add Dagoth Ur to favorite RPG characters. When I first heard of him, and about corprus in general, he just seemed like such a mystical and fantastic character.

Of course, my expectations didn't match up with reality: I imagined him as this large, bloated and freaky beastie. But he's still awesome nonetheless.

I'd probably still be playing MW if I wasn't so picky about the horrendous animation.

some guy · Jul 23, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I COMPLETELY FORGOT OUR FAVORITE KROGAN BATTLEMASTER!!!!

RiKio · Jul 23, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by some guy

I COMPLETELY FORGOT OUR FAVORITE KROGAN BATTLEMASTER!!!!

/cheer

He won the "Best Sidekick of the Year" award from the Official Xbox Magazine.

Murmel · Jul 23, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Honestly, it was really hard for me to get into the Witcher because of the character acting animations. But with the new update on it's way, I'll probably have to pick it up again.

Yeah... The character acting animations is horrible.... Some characters eyes where so wide open I almost jumped of my chair cause they looked so ugly

That was just an example, of course there are more things that are bad.

Anyway, I hope they make a new patch/update that'll fix that.

And yeah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If I wasn't so picky about animations

I'm also quite picky, so can sadly not return to such a great game as MW....

DreamRunner · Jul 23, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

To be honest, the PvE part of Guild Wars is more like an interactive movie as well... but it's still much easier to role-play in Guild Wars than it is in Final Fantasy.

I've come across quite a few people who do RP meetings in GW, but I have never heard of anyone who has role-played something in Final Fantasy.

It's worse for the females, they're all mages, they're all weak, they're the typical "oh please won't someone rescue me" skanks that I want to behead with a rusty butter knife, and they're all too ... feminine.

And mages are NOT stronger than warriors, because all it really takes is an arrow through the eye or a knife in the chest to stop a mage. They're still human, they can still die.

Yes, there does.

If you're just following the storyline blindly, you're not playing your character's role. It's just like watching a movie.

Maybe my rules for an RPG are a little strict (I'm an Elder Scrolls fan myself, I've got pretty high expectations for RPGs) but Final Fantasy is not an RPG, it is an interactive movie.

World of Warcraft is an excellent example of an RPG... you make a character, you can create a little story for him/her, and you can control your character however you want. You can do quests, kill people, do dungeons... That's what I look for in an RPG - freedom of character creation and gameplay. Final Fantasy has neither.

Oh, and I usually expect RPGs to have better combat systems than "select and press enter and see what happens."

So, Guild Wars isn't an RPG. But depending on the person, It just seems that the term RPG is being used one two extremes of too "loosely" or as you have described too "strict". And as Bryant Again as pointed out, there has to be more to it than just being able to craft and make your decisions. Because at the moment, the term RPG fits into more than just the one category you have described.

It's worse....? How is it worse? A gender role is a gender role and it effects both sexes equally. The actual effects of a gender role on a person is very diverse and opinionated, but to say its worse for females is just selfish. And they're females that do some butt-kicking, such as Tifa from Final Fantasy VII. Yuffie as well from the game also isn't magic based. Look at Final Fantasy XII characters.
The female characters are too feminine? Err... The female protagonist in Final Fantasy XII fights to liberate her kingdom. Fran from the same game does ship maintenance and is a warrior as well who uses the bow.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike most Final Fantasy games and I really hate the combat system of the game series. In-fact I have only played VII and XII, although I rather dislike XII a lot more than VII. While I do sorta have a big problem with most JRPG's from that I feel they leave the player not really involved within the game.

How can you described a genre of a game by how much interaction there is within the game? That's silly and just goes into the eye of the beholder. As long as it does have SOME interaction, then it can be described as an RPG.

Thus... there has to be more elements to an RPG.

Taurucis · Jul 23, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So, Guild Wars isn't an RPG. But depending on the person, It just seems that the term RPG is being used one two extremes of too "loosely" or as you have described too "strict". And as Bryant Again as pointed out, there has to be more to it than just being able to craft and make your decisions. Because at the moment, the term RPG fits into more than just the one category you have described.

Well, I usually expect RPGs to be good, which might be one reason why I don't see Final Fantasy as an RPG.

Final Fantasy is one of those strange games that don't exactly fit into a category... it's like a tiny bit RPG, a tiny bit strategy, a tiny bit action, a tiny bit adventure... but not enough of everything to give it a clear-cut category. Which is why I don't think that calling it an RPG is justified, and so I call it an interactive movie. It's like a jack-of-all-trades where it tries to be everything but fails to be any of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

It's worse....? How is it worse? A gender role is a gender role and it effects both sexes equally. The actual effects of a gender role on a person is very diverse and opinionated, but to say its worse for females is just selfish. And they're females that do some butt-kicking, such as Tifa from Final Fantasy VII. Yuffie as well from the game also isn't magic based. Look at Final Fantasy XII characters.

Never played XII (12?) from what I heard it sucks, though.

Find me a female Final Fantasy character who is a warrior, as in a true warrior in armor, not a ninja/rogue/ranged fighter/whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

The female characters are too feminine? Err... The female protagonist in Final Fantasy XII fights to liberate her kingdom. Fran from the same game does ship maintenance and is a warrior as well who uses the bow.

I haven't played XII so I don't know about her, but I've never known female characters from Final Fantasy fight with much else but words.

And yes, feminine females annoy the hell out of me. Go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Don't get me wrong, I dislike most Final Fantasy games and I really hate the combat system of the game series. In-fact I have only played VII and XII, although I rather dislike XII a lot more than VII. While I do sorta have a big problem with most JRPG's from that I feel they leave the player not really involved within the game.

And unfortunately, Final Fantasy has spawned a bunch of horrible ripoffs (namely AdventureQuest, whatever you do don't play it) that are plaguing the internet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

How can you described a genre of a game by how much interaction there is within the game? That's silly and just goes into the eye of the beholder. As long as it does have SOME interaction, then it can be described as an RPG.

Thus... there has to be more elements to an RPG.

Final Fantasy has just about no interaction.

If Final Fantasy is an RPG, then other games like GTA, Halo, a bunch of other FPS games (Call of Duty, Gears of War...? I don't know, I just heard that they've got a little bit of a story side to them, but I've never played them before mainly because I don't like FPS games) even strategy games like Warcraft 3, Heroes of Might and Magic... all those could be called RPGs as well.

I'll talk about the one I know about... Heroes of Might and Magic.

In HoMM games you can play Campaign maps, basically a series of scenarios that tell a story... you usually control a character who's important to the storyline. It's very similar to Final Fantasy in the aspect that there isn't much you can do to change the storyline or ending, but HoMM has much better combat and character (for HoMM4 at least) development.

Even a few of the single scenarios have a little bit of a story in them, I've noticed. HoMM is considered "turn based strategy" even though it shares quite the few RPG elements of Final Fantasy. (you play a character in a linear storyline where you can't really choose the outcome, character development is pretty much only choosing his/her stats, equipment, and skills)

If HoMM isn't RPG enough to be called an RPG, then why is Final Fantasy called an RPG?

Bryant Again · Jul 23, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

If HoMM isn't RPG enough to be called an RPG, then why is Final Fantasy called an RPG?

Heroes relies on town management, unit management, resource management...many things that direct and learn much more towards strategy than RPG (especially with the grid-based combat). And while it does have RPG elements within it, they're more overshadowed by the strategy - hence it's called a strategy game, and turnbased at that.

Taurucis · Jul 23, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Heroes relies on town management, unit management, resource management...many things that direct and learn much more towards strategy than RPG (especially with the grid-based combat). And while it does have RPG elements within it, they're more overshadowed by the strategy - hence it's called a strategy game, and turnbased at that.

The thing is, you're still playing the role of the ruler of a kingdom.

Look at Final Fantasy's combat as well... you can't even control where your characters stand, you can just select an option and activate it. There's much more control over HoMM combat.

Both Final Fantasy and HoMM have RPG elements. But they both have other elements that overshadow their RPG elements - FF has the interactive movie, while HoMM has turn based strategy.

Nevin · Jul 23, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

RPG = Role Playing Game.

A game in which you play the role of a character. Its such an open ended statement, technically all games are considered RPG's. But that's why other genres exist, because people have broken it down over the years. So in short you can say that RPG's have become exclusively related to character advancement through in game experience gaining mechanics where as games like FPS's or Adventure titles don't have so much emphasis on that. If you wanna be hardcore about it, then go play Chat Mud's.

DreamRunner · Jul 24, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Well, I usually expect RPGs to be good, which might be one reason why I don't see Final Fantasy as an RPG.

Final Fantasy is one of those strange games that don't exactly fit into a category... it's like a tiny bit RPG, a tiny bit strategy, a tiny bit action, a tiny bit adventure... but not enough of everything to give it a clear-cut category. Which is why I don't think that calling it an RPG is justified, and so I call it an interactive movie. It's like a jack-of-all-trades where it tries to be everything but fails to be any of it.

Never played XII (12?) from what I heard it sucks, though.

Find me a female Final Fantasy character who is a warrior, as in a true warrior in armor, not a ninja/rogue/ranged fighter/whatever.

I haven't played XII so I don't know about her, but I've never known female characters from Final Fantasy fight with much else but words.

And yes, feminine females annoy the hell out of me. Go figure.

And unfortunately, Final Fantasy has spawned a bunch of horrible ripoffs (namely AdventureQuest, whatever you do don't play it) that are plaguing the internet...

Final Fantasy has just about no interaction.

If Final Fantasy is an RPG, then other games like GTA, Halo, a bunch of other FPS games (Call of Duty, Gears of War...? I don't know, I just heard that they've got a little bit of a story side to them, but I've never played them before mainly because I don't like FPS games) even strategy games like Warcraft 3, Heroes of Might and Magic... all those could be called RPGs as well.

[Snip] I'll reply to your next post when I have time

You still are controlling one character. Rather, you're role-playing as one character. And yes it does have interaction between the characters. Multiple endings, depending where you go will get you different items. I mean if you look at an intersection of left or right, you will go through different number of enemies or types and receive different items, even though you will end up at the same destination.

Yes, 12 is bad. It environment and atmosphere reminds me of Star Wars. I hate dislike many people who surround themselves by Star Wars.

Freya Crescent uses a spear from Final Fantasy IX. I think what you said of the females from Final Fantasy series was a huge generalization. One that isn't true if you look hard enough.

Yes they are. And yes they do annoy me too. Actually, 99% of JRPG I find are not interesting, especially when it comes down to plot, characters and environment.

Players choose how a certain character within Final Fantasy interacts with other characters in the game.

Again, from the term RPG and what you are trying to describe needs to have more elements towards an RPG. But Nevin said what I wanted to say, so oh well.

Etta · Jul 24, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

12 was alright, even know it was kinda like an offline version of 11. Farming in a single player game?! Forget about it, enter exploder V5 cd.

Geno from Mario Arrr Pee Gee is a pretty cool character.