Curse

bhavv · Dec 13, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

This is just a thread I made because I would like to hear some opinions on this.

Some people accused me of being, and would think that I am racist because I posted this reply to the quoted post on another forum, the topic being about immigrants to the UK:

Post I replied to -

Quote:

So, hands up if you honestly think the majority immigrants in the past 40 years have;
1) Attended a grammar school
2) Attended elocution lessons
3) Fully integrated into British society

My Reply -

Quote:

My parents are both immigrants.

I went to a Grammar school, have a degree, and can read, write and speak English better than maybe 75% of white people can.

And the reply I recieved:

Quote:

Why did you specify "white" people in your post, that is racist.

Was I being racist to white people by saying this? Apparantly, the assumption is that I were inadvertently saying that 75% of white people cannot read, write or speak English, or are bad at it, when I were simply being somewhat narcissistic / deluded, whether rightly or wrongly of my own abilities. The only way that this statement implies in any way that 'White people are bad at English', is if the reader assumes that I am bad at it myself.

I never actually intended anything racist at all, other than responding to the post on grammar schooling, but found the replies amusing enough to want to discuss this in a few more places and see what people think.

gone · Dec 13, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

if you were to have just said "people" you'd have been all good. as soon as you said "white people" you'll get painted with the racist brush.

saying people isn't P.C. anymore...I guess?

RTSFirebat · Dec 13, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Never ever bring colour into any argument, it makes you look foolish. Not racist but foolish. You sort of kicked yourself in the face the moment you brought colour into the mix.

Schmerdro · Dec 13, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Yes, stating an informed opinion is the most foolish thing you could ever do.
Edit: Actually, it's not an "opinion", it's really a "fact" if bhavv actually had more education than the majority of Britain's population (who are white people).

Imo, racism is only when a person is discriminated against for the color of his/her skin; it has to have a real life consequence for it to be real.
For example, saying "Asian people are dumb" is only racist when that Asian person can not obtain a heavily intellectual job, even though he/she passed all the requirements; not getting a job, for which one is fully qualified, is a very real and damaging consequence.
But saying that "white people are dumb" can not be racist because white people hold most of the power; there is no real life consequence and, therefore, no harm can be done.

But really, racism is a very complicated thing and it can be confused with many other types of discrimination and that's why people like to mention it as much as possible, in order to make themselves appear "progressive" or "intellectual".

In an unrelated note, it's also why people in Guild Wars like to constantly say "supply and demand" on Local chat, they want to make themselves appear educated and informed when, really, they want to say "I want a more convenient price for your in-game service".

bhavv · Dec 13, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Racism is an issue that I am very interested in, and I do start opinion threads like this one from time to time on the topic.

In the UK, I could lose my job and even be sued for saying what I quoted in the OP, if the other person takes it out of context and makes it sound a lot worse then it was.

I never speak about race IRL, but I do get into unavoidable arguments over religion from time to time as an open atheist, and yes, I could lose my job or be sued if I said something similar about religion. Something which I do not believe should be a problem in a country like the UK at all, but it is.

Yang Whirlwind · Dec 13, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Colors should never be used to describe people.
Doing so makes it look as if you have missed the point, thinking skin pigmentation has something to do with intelligence, level of education, etc. in itself.

bhavv · Dec 13, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

Colors should never be used to describe people.

Yet plenty of other people I know including my family and relatives do that all the time and consider it completely fine and normal.

Bobby2 · Dec 13, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

You're entitled to your prejudices. Society demands you stfu about them. It's just the way it is.

Snow Bunny · Dec 14, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

You're racist only because I can't respond with "I can speak and write Chinese better than 75% of yellow people"

Malice Black · Dec 14, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Don't sweat it. Most people will say something that is deemed racist by another in their lifetime.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Dec 14, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I was not aware you could be racist towards white people, when did this start.

Kattar · Dec 14, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Malice is a racist because his name has the word 'black' in it.

And yes, it's called reverse discrimination, Kerwyn.

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 14, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

nah, it's w/e

Talania Vulcanclaw · Dec 14, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

I heard that 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I'm actually intrigued to learn how you came up with that figure.

If you had said the same thing but replaced the "White" with "Black" it would probably be on the news by now. Good job 75% of white people aren't that sensitive.

I like to read this bit over and over:

"when I were simply being somewhat narcissistic,"

Arkantos · Dec 14, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I think you simply used poor words to get your point (which was not racist) across. I think it's obvious that you meant you could speak/write English better than 75% of people born and raised in an English community. Lots of Caucasians fall under that category, which is why you said white people. Not racist, just a poor choice.

Anarion Silverhand · Dec 14, 2009, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I think the problem is that when the person who inquired only specified "immigrants" - And we're more liable to think of an immigrant as a person with a different pigmentation than that of the native population. When the people's party in my country claim that "the immigrants commit crime all the time", I doubt they mean Swedes, Norwegians or Germans living in my country.

The simple fact that he listed "attended elocution lessons" would suggest that the immigrants he's thinking about don't know English - which I would think the majority of Europeans (who are mainly white) do. Also, he specifies that he means the majority. I'm not too familiar with immigrant statistics, but I would think that the majority of immigrants in the UK don't fall in the "white" category.

You did nothing wrong. He's just trying to be PC.

makosi · Dec 14, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

You haven't been racist but, instead, you didn't conform to the ridiculously high standard of British political correctness. If I said I preferred white chocolate to dark chocolate then someone would take offence to some degree but that's society's problem and not mine, therefore I don't get wound up.

Rather than 'white' the PC term to use would be, "...better than maybe 75% of indigenous Brits can." Either way, I think it's an accurate estimation.

PC can go to hell... and so can those sensitive souls who take offence at everything and label everyone else as a racist or bigot or intolerant.

Check out Pat Condell on youtube - he's very real and comical about this sort of thing.

MMSDome · Dec 14, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

You haven't been racist but, instead, you didn't conform to the ridiculously high standard of British political correctness. If I said I preferred white chocolate to dark chocolate then someone would take offence to some degree but that's society's problem and not mine, therefore I don't get wound up.

Rather than 'white' the PC term to use would be, "...better than maybe 75% of indigenous Brits can." Either way, I think it's an accurate estimation.

PC can go to hell... and so can those sensitive souls who take offence at everything and label everyone else as a racist or bigot or intolerant.

Check out Pat Condell on youtube - he's very real and comical about this sort of thing.

As much as I agree with you and hate political correctness and the idea of a hyphenated American (I believe that you are American if you live in the USA, nothing else) but we live in a society where people get butthurt all to easy. God forbid you call someone by the color of their skin instead of something like African-American. How many generations ago did their ancestors come from Africa? I think it is time they lose the hyphenations and be Americans like the rest of us, you don't see me calling myself European-American, i'm white.

kostolomac · Dec 14, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

No, but people who suck at reading can think so.

Etta · Dec 14, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

OMG! It's Jackie Chan, Morgan Freeman and Ethan Hawk!