Curse

Symeon · Mar 23, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Hello, all!

As mentioned in the sticky thread Welcome to the Overlook!, this forum will be carried along by 'weekly projects' of particular subjects, to generate large amounts of discussion, research, and activity. As said, these may involve expeditions in-game, referring to the manual, looking out for things while you play, and even research outside the game. By doing this we will explore particular subjects of game lore in a lot of detail, and when we have reached a good depth in the discussion and can draw certain conclusions, we will have unravelled the subject to everyone for their information and interest.

Well, here, I present to you the first of these projects! Except, try not to think of it as a school or academic project, it is nothing of the sort.

The theme, as you may have guessed from the title of the thread, is the Guild Wars: Factions Preview Event.

This preview event is hopefully going to give us a huge insight into the coming game, the 'Chapter 2' of Guild Wars. We will be able to explore several areas of the continent of Cantha, the two Factions and their capital cities, and encounter monsters and NPC's of many types as well as other players in great PvP battles.

With all this stuff being presented to us in this preview...how can we miss taking a dive into the lore of Guild Wars: Factions? We simply can't.

So, what is there for us to dive into in this Preview Event (along with playing through it and experiencing new gameplay)?

Cantha!
Canthan people!
Canthan architecture!
Canthan creatures!
The two Factions, and their lore!
The lore of the two new professions!
History, religion and ethics of Cantha!
What is the link between Tyria and Cantha?!
What is the adventure and the lore surrounding it like?!
What do the NPC's tell us? What stories, legends and myths are there woven into the lore?!
What are Alliances, Alliance Battles, the new PvP maps, etc. like and what information about the lore of Guild Wars: Factions can we draw from them?!

As you can see, that's quite a lot of things...and there may be more!

And furthermore...surely, there are connections between the lore of the game and lore elsewhere (e.g. generalised fantasy/RPG things)? So...we can research them!

Hopefully by doing all these things in the preview we can get out as much detail about the coming game and the lore that surrounds it as possible.

The preview event begins soon - put your thinking caps on, prepare to take a look at all the lore that will make up Guild Wars: Factions!

Regarding the discussion in this thread...make sure you take into mind other points of view, and we need to bring in evidence from the in-game Preview Event to support all the speculation and research. Screenshots, copies of what NPC's say, descriptions etc. are all fine, just keep it appropriate.

Happy discussing guys!

(PS: Look out on the staff openings section on the homepage, as the weekly lore projects progress we will be trying to develop a team of contributors here.)

Sentao Nugra · Mar 24, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Information below is from the new "Alliance NPC" in the Guild Hall.

The horns of battle are sounding. Come and fight!

Kurzick Scribe [Faction Transfer]

Individuals may be frail, but in numbers we find strength. For this reason, men join guilds and guilds join alliances. So too should an alliance seek a nation to serve. If your alliance is prepared to join us, send your Alliance Leader to speak with the Kurzick Ambassador. If you fight well enough, you may be given command over territories that fall into Kurzick hands.

Kurzick Kommandant [Alliance Battles]

The Frontier is quiet at the moment, but we can be sure that the Luxons will soon attack again. I will let you know when it is time for battle once again.

Luxon and Allies, I call to you. Come and fight!

Luxon Scribe [Faction Transfer]

Life in the Jade Sea is hard. The Luxons survive only because the strong have banded together. If your alliance is prepared to join us, send your Alliance Leader to speak with the Luxon Ambassador. If you fight well enough, you may be given command over territories that fall into Luxon hands.

Luxon Navigator [Alliance Battles]

The cowardly Kurzicks ar hiding from us for the time being, but we shall find them soon enough. I will put out a call when the time for battle has returned.

Canadian Bacon · Mar 24, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Ok, I have a question that demands answering.

How in Dwayna's name did the Stone Summit dwarves of Tyria obtain and enslave vast quantities of Canthan Dredges? (I think there was one other thing too...I don't remeber.)

I can't think of any logical explanation for this, or at least not one that can be proven.

Symeon · Mar 24, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Ok, I have a question that demands answering.

How in Dwayna's name did the Stone Summit dwarves of Tyria obtain and enslave vast quantities of Canthan Dredges? (I think there was one other thing too...I don't remeber.)

I can't think of any logical explanation for this, or at least not one that can be proven.

The dwarves have a trading port (theoretically), Port Sledge. I assume whatever overseas trading they do is done there. Perhaps, Canthan traders came there with a load of captured dredges for sale, and the Stone Summit saw their opportunity to buy a cheap slave labour force? Either that, or the fact that there are 'dredges' on both continents is merely a coincidence.

I haven't got very far in the gameplay of the Preview Event yet, and I have other things to do tonight. Probably tomorrow morning I'll take a look at the information and impressions I've come across so far and present some topics for discussion.

Hope everyone's having fun in Cantha and is taking good note of their surroundings and what the NPC's are saying

Canadian Bacon · Mar 25, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Isn't Port Sledge controlled by Deldrimor? I guess it could theoretically have fallen under Stone Summit control at some point (this point being conveniently placed to correspond with the Canthan trade vessel).

Elaine Donnerbalken · Mar 25, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

the dredges dug their way to kurzick in an attempt to escape from the stone summit.

A dregde named Moleneux tells this. Hes west from Fort Aspenwood.

Sentao Nugra · Mar 25, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

the dredges dug their way to kurzick in an attempt to escape from the stone summit.

A dregde named Moleneux tells this. Hes west from Fort Aspenwood.

if this story is true (which im assuming it is) we can get information about the stone summit. this shows how cruel they really are; to make an entire enslaved race want to dig under the mountains, under the seas, under orr, under the great ocean, under cantha and into kurzick lands. CRAZY mean those stone summit must be.

Symeon · Mar 25, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

the dredges dug their way to kurzick in an attempt to escape from the stone summit.

A dregde named Moleneux tells this. Hes west from Fort Aspenwood.

Interesting! That name seems familiar - isn't he one of the scroll trader collectors in Sorrow's Furnace?
If it's possible, could you post a screenshot of what he says exactly? I haven't had the time to get over near Fort Aspenwood yet

Anyway...

Let's get down to business guys! We're well into the Preview Event, and I'm sure everyone will agree that as predicted, there is a lot that we can discuss about the lore.

Some opening topics...

1. The architecture, appearance/clothing of the Luxons and the Kurzicks, and what are the things that make them so different?

I've been looking around the two factions' capitals, Cavalon and House zu Heltzer. They intrigue me.

The Luxon capital, Cavalon, has its base sculpted out of the jade sea. The jade has been uplifted and sculpted to form steps, platforms, etc. Also, when you're in there near the alliance battle/allegiance NPC's, look up - you should see some giant tattered coloured sheets of material spread across wooden beams. It looks almost like the ruins of several ship sails put together. To add to that, there are various wooden structures all over the place that look like they have been taken from shipwrecks, and, of course, there are the massive turtles sitting around, moving their heads, not doing much

. Overall, the city seems to be a very colourful and creative scene. I'm going to get some screenshots of the main things in there.

House zu Heltzer, the Kurzick capital, is basically a giant, dark, gothic-style cathedral, with pillars towering up on all sides and various tree trunks lying about the place including one that has been made into a bridge. The cathedral is lit by several chandeliers. Again, in this place, look up - the cathedral has no ceiling, only some arches that perhaps might once have been the supports for a ceiling. So, you stare instead into a maze of tree branches obscured by mist, presumably part of some giant trees surrounding the place. There is a small exterior area to the cathedral within the outpost, with refreshing green grass and those wonderful henchmen standing about.

I'll get discussing the costume of the two sides later...others feel free to discuss it. All I can say for now is: Some of the Kurzicks have marvellous hats! Oh, and...the Luxons dress brightly and creatively in general, and the Kurzicks dress...dark

Post pictures of NPC's please, let's laugh at them, mock them and analyse them

2. Place and people names! Cavalon, Gyala Hatchery, Master Togo, etc...

Well...so far I haven't looked very much into these. Perhaps some of the names could be researched, to see if they have outside links. Other than that, I'm sure there'll be interesting differences between Kurzick and Luxon people names. Discuss.

3. The creatures/enemies of Cantha! Yetis, Rot Wallows, Wardens, etc...

Again, I need to look into this. I've seen various types of interesting creatures, and I'm sure they'll have some detail behind them. Again, screenshots/information/discussion on this are welcome!

4. Information from NPC's...

Let's try to gather screenshots/copies of what NPC's say so we can discuss them. From Chapter 1 we know that NPC's, especially those such as mission briefers, give a lot of information that relates to lore. Surely, it will be the same in Chapter 2.

So...let's get talking about all this stuff!

I want to encourage people as much as possible to post in-game screenshots/copies of what NPC's say here, so that once the FPE is over we will still have a load of evidence to discuss. If you think you have a screenshot or can take one that will be useful in examining the lore of Guild Wars: Factions, by all means go ahead and post it in here. Copies of NPC's speeches, and I'm sure other things too would also help. Thanks in advance to anyone that does - I am going to try to get some screenshots myself!

The Mighty Toe · Mar 25, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'm trying to collect real-world information about the creatures that appear in Cantha. Her's what I have so far:

Yeti: A Tibetan term that means 'Himalayan mountain spirit'
Oni: They are a Japanese/Chinese Buddhist demon. They have 3 eyes, 3 fingers and 3 toes. They are cruel and lecherous and sweep down from the sky to steal the souls of those doomed to die.
Kirin: A Chines/Japanese Unicorn/Dragon combination. They are also sometimes depicted as a dragon, fish and ox chimeric beast.

I will add more as I am able.

Elaine Donnerbalken · Mar 25, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

sry i didnt make screenies what the dredge said. made all the quests he gave me and dont have the nerve to create a new factions rpg character, sry

Canadian Bacon · Mar 26, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

From Wikipedia:

In mythology, the Nagas are a race of supernatural beings usually depicted with both snake and human attributes, who inspired modern interpretations:

* In modern fantasy fiction, members of any race with both snake and human characteristics may be called nagas.

Blessed Winds · Mar 26, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Kappa means demon turtle in Japanese

Symeon · Mar 26, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Ok, I found this somewhere (what that dredge guy says):

http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?i...eplight3ob.png

His name is Moleneaux

So...they dug to the other side of the world? Does that mean that the world Tyria and Cantha are on is flat?...Or does he not literally mean that, but instead they just dug a really long tunnel under the ocean to reach Cantha? Interesting topic.

Nice stuff on creatures. I think I'll take a little dip into the game to get some screenshots of these creatures now, and I'll search wikipedia and the like for any outside lore clues. Keep it coming! I'm also going to get some screenshots of Canthan NPC's and the outposts.

Eldin · Mar 26, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

We've been adding some things to GuildWiki regarding the FPE information. Also, in my opinion, the dredge seem to be underground-dwellers in nature, so I am for the scenario in which they dug a looooong tunnel from Tyria to Cantha. Here's some Kurzick information on their "houses". All Canthans believe in the Old Gods of Tyria. Not just the Kurzicks. This was confirmed in an IGN article a while back, I believe.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/221/fpehouses0lx.png

When I first arrived at House zu Heltzer, I thought Heltzer was a last name, and this was the capital and the royal family's dwelling. Apparently, it may be a title, as with Durheim, Brauer, etc.

Symeon · Mar 27, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Ok, since I'm finding it quite hard to take good screenshots of these creatures, I'll just copy some from GuildWiki into here. I'll edit this post as I find more.

Stone Scale Kirin

http://www.guildwiki.org/images/c/ce...cale_Kirin.jpg

Yeti's

http://www.guildwiki.org/images/9/9f/Yeti_ritualist.jpg

http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Image:Yeti_ranger.jpg

Kappa

http://www.guildwiki.org/images/8/84/Kappa.jpg

Here's some info on the two capitals also taken from the wiki:

Cavalon: Although Cavalon is the Luxon's home settlement, most prefer to stay on the move, returning only once every decade, when the Convocation brings together all of the three armadas. Traders from around the world come to buy the precious jade and rare seashells that the Luxon merchants sell here.

House zu Heltzer: One of the oldest and largest of the Kurzick Houses, the zu Heltzers can trace their lineage to Saint Viktor and well beyond, a fact that they waste no opportunity to mention to newcomers. As masters of thought, magic, and architecture, their buildings are nothing short of exquisite, and getting past their magical wards and protections is nothing short of miraculous.

I'm going to get some screenshots of the two cities and NPC's now before the event ends. I may not have time to post them until later, though.

Warcheif_Jonval · Mar 27, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

The Jade Wind: ive seen this mentioned repatedly through out the preview. Im assumeing it happened several years before "now" and turned most of Cantha into solid jade (as you can see from the Jade "Sea") and sent sevearl species of monster, such as the Discord wallow, into extinction.

The Oni: I saw from one of the Collectors in the Luxon capital that they belive the Oni to be derranged/cursed humans. He explained his reasoning through a nomadic clan of almost animalistic Luxon that are outcasts from the entire canthian society, luxon or not. This group, who i dont remember their name, were also responsible for the utter massicre of several armies of Kurzik at Pine Ridge, apparently a battle several years before the present (i heard THIS from a Canthan guard wandering around on the road to the Luxons)

The Charr: It seems the Charr made it to Canthia as well. I saw an NPC mention a diseased band of Charr as a similie somewhere in Kurzik lands. Makes ya think... how powerful were the Charr exactly? and how far away IS Canthia from Tyria?

Government in Canthia: It appears that the Kurzick, luxons and Canthians are 3 compleately diffrent nations. Since the Canthians are commonly reffered to as a 3rd party in this, and are seemingly disticnt from the two warring factions. I assume they are the Sweeds in this conflict. Compleately neutral.

Saint Viktor's Shrine: The Shrine, south of House Zu Heltzer, is a memorial to Saint Viktor. He was an advocate of peace between the Kurziks and Luxons, but was supposedly struck down by the luxons during one of his sermons.
The shrine is a pilgramage spot for those canthans/kurzik who still follow the belief of Ancestor worshop.

Religion: if the above statement is true, the traditional 5 gods are a recent religions revoloution. Before Balthazar and his cohorts moved into cantha, they were a "shinto" culture (by comparison at least. most likely it had a FAR diffrent name and style, but its the closest thing i can think of at the moment).

What are the patron gods of Assasins and Ritualists: im guessing just by the style of skills that they use, Ritualists are deciples of Grenith who were former deciples of Dwyna. Assasins, on the other hand, are deciples Balthazar and Lyssa. (speculation of cource. it just seems logical by the way their skills are used)

Long post o_o lots of junk and speculation... what do you think? ^^

Symeon · Mar 27, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Interesting stuff Jonval.

Quote:

The Jade Wind: ive seen this mentioned repatedly through out the preview. Im assumeing it happened several years before "now" and turned most of Cantha into solid jade (as you can see from the Jade "Sea") and sent sevearl species of monster, such as the Discord wallow, into extinction.

Supposedly, it was Shiro Tagachi's massive cry when he was killed after murdering the emperor of Cantha 200 years ago, that let out this massive wind...turning the sea on which the Luxon seafarers sailed into solid jade, petrifying the forest inhabited by the Kurzicks, and yes, I read somewhere also that some creatures were killed and became extinct because of it. Must have been a pretty loud but also very magical scream, to have the power to send out a gigantic force like that. I'm interested as to how his scream had so much force to it.

Quote:

Government in Canthia: It appears that the Kurzick, luxons and Canthians are 3 compleately diffrent nations. Since the Canthians are commonly reffered to as a 3rd party in this, and are seemingly disticnt from the two warring factions. I assume they are the Sweeds in this conflict. Compleately neutral.

Hmmm...yes. Cantha to me seems to be the dominating empire of the continent, as the continent is actually named after it. Judging by some things I've read they are a very rich trading empire, and the size of the city perhaps indicates the age of the nation itself.
It'll be interesting to see exactly what the standing between the 'three' factions is...to me it seems that the Luxons and Kurzicks are much more recently developed and sort of 'vassal states' within the Canthan empire. That said, the Canthans are too busy trading to care about the conflict going on between the other two. Perhaps they tried to interfere earlier but realised it was hopeless, and so they gave up.

As to religion, it seems to me that the Kurzicks see themselves as the 'elite' in the eyes of the same Gods that are worshipped in Tyria. They are orthodox and dedicated in their reverrence of these Gods. You make a good point about that Saint Viktor though - I'm confused as to the nature of Canthan religion. I thought that Cantha, being very Asian-themed, would have gods of that kind. Cantha (the nation), being like China in my eyes, I thought would have some kind of sun god, or various eastern-style gods. I'm not sure exactly where the Luxons lie with Gods, but the Kurzicks confuse me too. The gods used to live in the city of Arah, in Orr, in Tyria; if they created the world, surely they created Cantha too, so they would go there too? Regarding that saint and this sort of dark divinity within the Kurzick culture, I'm thinking the Kurzicks may actually have been informed by visiting Tyrians of the actual gods...therefore they quickly converted and used these gods, building them into their already very gothic, orthodox, conservative, protective culture. Mere speculation though, as there isn't much information on this subject really.

Gods of Assassins and Ritualists: I agree that assassins would be followers of Lyssa...I'm not so sure about Balthazar, though. Balthazar is god of great war and fire...assassins do not fight wars, but sneakily kill and betray. However, I do not believe they would be entirely dedicated to Lyssa - they do not worship beauty and illusion, but focus on trickery, swiftness and shadow arts. I think they are therefore loose hangers on to Lyssa, but otherwise are rather godless.
Ritualists confuse me. I don't understand how those who follow Dwayna could move over to Grenth. However, that seems to be their alignment - they have skills that focus on bringing up spirits to hurt others and using the ashes of the dead, while they also use spirits to heal and protect. I was thinking of Melandru, but ritualists don't seem to fall very much under the 'nature' alignment as I had thought when I first heard of them.

Good food for discussion there, and also, I've got a load of screenshots, which I'll start putting up. Those include pictures of what NPC's say - GuildWiki had some but not all when I checked.

Lexar · Mar 27, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

There's another familiar from Prophecies very closely tied to Cantha that we're all forgetting: the Xunlai agents [storage]. Apparently they do the emperor's bidding, because that's why we couldn't access the storage to import items. I hope we'll get some more inside on how these guys work, and why. It would be cool to blend in the gameplay elements into the story that way.

Eldin · Mar 27, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Yes...the Xunlai Guild may have ties to the emperor, though I believe the Xunlai are Canthans, in reality. Look at their faces. Numerous Canthan NPCs in LA look like them.

Warcheif_Jonval · Mar 28, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Thank you for discussing my ideas symeon.

Religion: Personaly, i dont think that the Canthians would have converted over to the Tyrian gods so quickly or easily. Something must have triggered it. i have 2 cool, fantasy related theories and one real world based theory on this.

1) the Charr. one hell of a foe here. It allowed a religious revoloution in Kryta, why not Canthia if they made it this far.

2) the Jade Wind. It was a cataclysmic tradgedy that litteraly altered the lives and world of the Canthians it would seem to be more than enough to trigger religious reform.

3) your sugggestion probobly is the more logical, the Tyrians spreading their gods, setting up a small sect that eventualy grew to dominate Kurzik religion. (hopefully with a good amount of blood shed. what good is religious reform with out a small civil war?)

Also on the subject of religion, I only just realised that Ritualists seem to be the remnants of the previous way of ancestor worshiop. with all the ashes spells, and various binding rituals, they focus on the long dead ancestors to do their business.

Assasins and ritualists:
I came to the conclusion about balthazar-lyssan hybrid by the way assasin played. It played less like a ninja and more like a knife weilding killing machine not afraid to mix it up with the warriors on the front lines. Trickery and raw power. that sounds like a bathazar-lyssa hybrid to me :P

Also, Ritualists are a kind of necromnacer. There are 3 kinds of necromancers out there (in fantasy) good, neutral and evil. the good ones commune with the dead in order to aid the living. the neutral ones use all forms of the dead to do various deeds, good and bad. Evil ones usualy resort to more unholy minions. Often, deamons of varying rank and power. warlocks, spiritualists(basicly our ritualists) and our good old, freindly neigborhood necros.

But as i stated earlier, Ritualists are likely the remnents of the previous religion. So, seing as the gods of that religion were long dead people, were looking at the truely godless profession i think.
Again, logical speculation based off common trends