Curse

Mister Muhkuh · Mar 28, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warcheif_Jonval

Char bible, cave 5, wall 4."

conjured an image of a Titain

lol :P

i dont think he knew how titan look like.
or do u think they have photo-bands with pictures of them in it with the description: this is the owning titan, he owns ur ass, u can control him like that. conjuring an image of it works like that:...

well...
i think he didnt know how they look like before he saw them...

(the underlined and italic parts are just to seperate the two
"statements"

)

Eldin · Mar 28, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Do we know if the Vizier even had the Scepter of Orr in his possession back then to begin with?

"A sight for sore eyes. One of the greatest treasures of my now-ruined home."
He most likely means Orr, not his royal quarters.

How on earth was the scepter taken all the way to Kryta and ended up in that tomb? That still remains unknown, perhaps it buried itself? Or maybe Glint whisked it away (like at the end of Hell's).

Most likely in desperation, the Vizier unleashed the magic of a Forbidden Scroll. However, the scepter was located in Orr. I can imagine a plaque about it in an Orrian Museum.

"He who wields the Scepter shall wield power eternal, as he commands destruction in its purest form - the Titans."

Thusly, we do not know if he had intentionally started the Cataclysm or not. In the end, the dark magic of the Cataclysm had corrupted the souls of the Orrians so greatly that they could not find rest, and were brought back as undead. The Lich, being the most intelligent (why? Perhaps as the caster of the cataclysm, he retained his memories or something, that or he was already the most powerful mage in all of Orr, which in its own way helped him keep his memories.), used the undead to search for the Scepter. We do not know how he learned of the Flameseeker Prophecies, for only the powerful beings (Glint, Seers, Mursaat) know of it in detail. Orr was near the Crystal Desert...perhaps a vision of Glint was conjured to speak of that which would fortell Orr's doom...and tread off-topic onto the story of the prophecy.

The mursaat and seers are not really good or bad. Think of them simply as factions. The Mursaat must stop the Titans from overrunning Tyria, yet in turn, they slaughter (well, their worshippers slaughter) countless innocents. The Seers seem more into just seeking vengeance on the Mursaat for reasons nobody knows. The Titans are not the main focus of the prophecy for the Seers and Mursaat.

Meerak The Shouter knew of the prophecy, either he was enlightened (in which case, perhaps Lichie was enlightened, too), or, being an ex-scribe, he uncovered a physical story about the prophecy, and in that case, so did Khilbron, but both kept it a secret.

We are still lacking much information about Orr. Since Arah was the holy city, and former home of the Gods, there are many supernatural ways in which Khilbron may have learned of the prophecy.

Either way, he began planning and planning. Evennia was in desperation to find allies in the losing battle against the Mantle, so I guess it's kind of understandable that she trusted a suspicious fellow.

Prefectus · Mar 29, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

ok my take on the charr invasion of kryta this is my thoughts as a runner you leave ascalon head to the mountans you can avoid every dwarven town and out post in its full and head to the green lands of kryta it is able to be done and with a force like you can move quickly and with out being cought,
hence the dwarvs (sp) not knowing or mentioning anything about them im looking in to a feasable way to get to orr at the moment ill post more of what i think and i know i cant spell dont flame

Avarre · Mar 29, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warcheif_Jonval

Also, the manual may say one thing, but its a historical account and historical accounts are not always 100% true.

Quite true. However more of my opinions of the Vizier's motives are drawn from an examination of him. He was just a human when he read it, and I seriously doubt he had everything planned entirely.

Evidence "It worked! Just as the prophecy said, it worked!" - the Vizier, upon taking control of the Titans

This tells me he was never really sure about what would happen. The sceptre's use was probably vaguely referenced in the prophecies only, hence his exuberence that it worked. Therefore I seriously doubt this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

He who wields the Scepter shall wield power eternal, as he commands destruction in its purest form - the Titans."

It wouldn't be so clear in a prophecy, as Glint quotes a part of it after the
Vizier died. The sceptre could easily have been blasted that distance. Either way, if the Vizier knew he'd need the sceptre, he'd probably go get it if it was already gone. If he had it, he wouldn't have wasted the time to blow everything up - he would have left Orr instead. Therefore I draw the conclusion that the devastation of the Cataclysm was unintentional. The Lich transformation (Seer theory) is a different story.

It is possible he met up with the Seer at a later date. What is certain, is that the two have similar goals. The Seer knows about the Titans, and I wouldn't doubt they were the one that told the Vizier about the 'allies' behind the door. Since Glint gave the prophecy, I doubt that the Vizier could have read about it. It seems more passed around by word of mouth, and I doubt anyone really understood what it were about. Remember, very few knew about the existance of the Door itself. Only those involved in the Mursaat wars, and Glint knew. So someone told the Lich about it, and I stand by what I said in that it was the Seer.

Warcheif_Jonval · Mar 30, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

well... seems your idea works far better than mine. :P

(still, mine is so much cooler than the acctual events! XD)

Avarre · Mar 30, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Well if we were going for all out coolness...

I would have the lich rise up, then the seer come out and challenge him to a boxing match, then when both are busy fighting, Mad King Thorn would come out, kill them both instantly, and explode. After which the Titans would be beaten back by a legion of Gretchies shouting 'ZERG RUSH!!'

Warcheif_Jonval · Apr 01, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

That would be cool

But it would make for a terrible game

on topic, Vizeir to me, seems like the kind of baddy that would be pulling strings on every event in the world though. I mean come on, he can teleport anywhere he wants, change into a human, and enchant you with some hella good powers.

Martian · Apr 01, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I still stand by my theorie that Orr is not on the Tyrian map, but is some distance North of Kryta.
I mean think about it; it's deeply unlikely that the Charr, a race accustomed to fire and wasteland, could traverse the shiverpeaks whilst still maintaining their flame altars and a supply chain for their massive force.
What about the desert? i hear you say. Well for one thing they would have to go through Ascalon and i severely doubt there would still be as much of it left if they had.
So ultimately it is more fesible (hope thats how it's spelt) to have Orr north of Tyria, not only to explain the charr being able to get there, but also to explain the undead insurgence into Kryta and the possibility of any sort of land conflict during the Guild Wars between Kryta and Orr.

so there.

Sorry i havent had anything to say about the Lich/Khilbron as im incredibly non-commital and have only recently got to the Ring of Fire despite having the game for 5 months :P

Avarre · Apr 02, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

But... its mentioned... that Orr is in the desert there...

The vizier mentions when you take the boat to the Crystal desert, something along the lines of 'we make for the shores of my home'.

The little booklety thing says the charr went through ascalon, anyway. While not very detailed, what it says is the truth (factually, anyway).

The Charr lands are likely north of the Shiverpeaks, they invaded South into Kryta, and were driven back that way. They're probably based from a large wasteland in the north, around the Bloodstone of Destruction (it's not accounted for, and would explain the Titans being there and the power of the Searing).

LightningHell · Apr 02, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

-snippity snippity snip-

Well, if Orr was north of Kryta, wouldn't they have to traverse Charr territory to have their Guild Wars?

Martian · Apr 02, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Ok, to help with prove my probably-wrong-but-still-vaguely-interesting point
i have constructed a crude map in order to exlain the practicality of my theories.

Cjlr · Apr 02, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Orr is most definately not where you've drawn it...

Martian · Apr 02, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Why not?
It fits!

Eldin · Apr 02, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

For the one millionth time, Orr was on/near the scorched peninsula adjacent to the Crystal Desert.

The red arrows represent how the Charr attacked. As suggested from a past post, it makes more sense if the Charr hired Krytan slaves to sail them to Orr, rather than go through the Desert and get eaten by Sand Wurms.

Saleh No.1 · Apr 02, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Orr was in the middle of the broken islands. Look in the centre and you see that the sea is light blue which means land is quite close to it.

Villager · Apr 03, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

Why not?
It fits!

The lore booklet that comes with the game, The GuildWars Manuscripts, states that Orr was on "a penninsula south of Ascalon and west of the Crystal Desert" (page 38, paragraph 2).

Symeon · Apr 03, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Right! It's time to pick up the manual!

This quote from the lore manual completely eliminates the theory of the Charr sailing to Orr:

'The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah.'

Also:

'they swept through the wall and moved on to Orr. The surviving humans of Ascalon have since retaken the wall and have held it against periodic attacks'

This indicates that in the two years between the Searing and when we actually appear in post-searing, the Charr army must have completely overwhelmed Ascalon's defences and swept through the breach in the wall, moving south and leaving the scarred landscape behind them. More, smaller waves of Charr are now being held off by the humans who have retaken the wall. In Orr, the Charr army was completely obliterated.

Also, in the manual there are repeated references to 'the beasts from the north'. This suggests that the land above Ascalon is not their immediate homeland, but just an area that they sort of settled in and made their own when they invaded Ascalon. The real homeland, surely, must lie above the current map, enabling the Charr to also come down from the north on Kryta.

However, this causes some confusion. Take this quote from the manual:

'Kryta and the While Mantle managed to push out the Charr, forcing them back over the mountains.'

The Charr must have come over the Shiverpeaks to reach Kryta, but in what direction is a mystery.

Furthermore, if you look at the game world map, there is a bay that looks almost like a flooded river which stretches as far as the Amnoon Oasis and into the Shiverpeaks. If this had been so when the Charr came, they would have been forced to cross the desert unless they had knowledge building rafts/ships to cross the sea, which I highly doubt.

So, I propose that the sinking of Orr raised the entire sea level. This caused the flooding of lowlands further away from Orr, including the area near Amnoon Oasis and a particular river coming from the Shiverpeaks. This would mean that the Charr could easily have moved around the desert before this land was flooded.

My overall thoughts of this post are illustrated in the picture below. Do not pay attention to the colours, just the mere outlines and basic shapes. All the water on the inside of the line I have drawn around Orr was land before the Cataclysm, but for a river coming from the Shiverpeaks that was of course much thinner until it was flooded. The red arrows show Charr routes.

Martian · Apr 09, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Ah now that makes sense, much more than my rubbish anyway :3 The idea of the land actually changing on that scale did not occur to me, i officially retract my theorie in acceptance of this one.

Selerious · Apr 10, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Qust a thing on the Charr invasion of Kryta, King Symeon i would draw the shiverpeaks all the way up in your map, the charr lands on the right above ascalon. As for crossing into Kryta, there is a NPC dwarf that speaks of the TWO passes through the shiverpeaks, Borliss pass and one north deep in the Charrs territory. It was this pass that was used to sweep across then down into Kryta.

Symeon · Apr 17, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Canadian Bacon, could you perhaps copy that Charr invasion sequence you described in the Third Lore Project into here? Since so much has been discussed about the Charr and their invasion in here, it would make sense to continue discussing such things here (though of course they can be discussed elsewhere too).