Curse

anubis_master · Apr 10, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Well we seem to be all talking about the flameseeker prophecies but who or what is the flameseeker?

Canadian Bacon · Apr 10, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by minionman

It's never really said what makes the mursaat evil besides killing the chosen. I wonder if the idea is that some mursaat survive, or if they were all at the ring of fire and got annihilated, or if there never really was a plan for them. I do wonder when the mursaat appeared, and what they were doing beforehand.

The searing seemed disigned to get the charr across the wall, nothing more. My guess is that they easily ran through ascalon after breaking through the wall, but than switched focus to Orr and Kryta, and lost enough of their army in those fights that the ascalons were able to recapture territory and defend themselves o.k. afterwards. The searing itself seems like a one time thing, that probably took lots of planning and preperation, so the charr are unlikely to repeat it for a long time. It would fit with the pattern of the charr waiting awhile, than launching invasions, and the seering was big enough to require a lot of work and materials to do.

The Mursaat do have a bit of backstory that is infered by some slight game details. It was discovered quite some tiem ago by that guy at GWO that the Forgotten sword and hammer and bow guys are in fact some form of lesser, or unworthy mursaat. They have the same little symbol thing on their armor as the Mursaat. Also, they both have weird spikiness on their back. I believe it is mentioned in the Lore somewhere that the Mursaat have had a city deep in the Maguuma Jungle for a long time. At some point they must have made the trip to the Crystal Desert. I think we can assume that the Mursaat who were able to successfully Ascend gained levitation powers, and became the powerful spellcasters we see in the mountains and the islands. The Mursaat who were unsuccessful in Ascension were forgotten by the Ascended Mursaat ,hence their name The Forgotten, and have lived in the desert in their original, unascended forms ever since.

Ascalon is currently at war with the Charr when we begin the game, and the Guild Wars are already over. The Charr have already made their swoop down across Tyria, but facing defeat, retreated to their homeland north of Ascalon. So, in an effort to continue their foiled war plots, they created the Searing with a huge ass cannon that appears to be made out of the same metallic purple stuff as the Mursaat monuments erected by the White Mantle that we see later on.

Selerious · Apr 10, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Ascalon is currently at war with the Charr when we begin the game, and the Guild Wars are already over. The Charr have already made their swoop down across Tyria, but facing defeat, retreated to their homeland north of Ascalon. So, in an effort to continue their foiled war plots, they created the Searing with a huge ass cannon that appears to be made out of the same metallic purple stuff as the Mursaat monuments erected by the White Mantle that we see later on.

Actually i think i read somewhere that the searing was the first act that the Charr did. The fighting you see when first in pre searing is the Charr vanguard pushing Ascalons forces back in order for Bonfass Burntfur and the other Charr commanders to erect the cauldron device that is used to create the meteors. Then with the wall destroyed the charr sweep through, breaking what little resistance remains and heads to Orr, while another strikeforce of Charr cross the shiverpeaks by the northern pass controlled by the Charr.

The rest is History.

Canadian Bacon · Apr 10, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selerious

Actually i think i read somewhere that the searing was the first act that the Charr did. The fighting you see when first in pre searing is the Charr vanguard pushing Ascalons forces back in order for Bonfass Burntfur and the other Charr commanders to erect the cauldron device that is used to create the meteors. Then with the wall destroyed the charr sweep through, breaking what little resistance remains and heads to Orr, while another strikeforce of Charr cross the shiverpeaks by the northern pass controlled by the Charr.

The rest is History.

Could be. I'm too busy to do any real fact checking. Homework FTL.

minionman · Apr 10, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selerious

Actually i think i read somewhere that the searing was the first act that the Charr did. The fighting you see when first in pre searing is the Charr vanguard pushing Ascalons forces back in order for Bonfass Burntfur and the other Charr commanders to erect the cauldron device that is used to create the meteors. Then with the wall destroyed the charr sweep through, breaking what little resistance remains and heads to Orr, while another strikeforce of Charr cross the shiverpeaks by the northern pass controlled by the Charr.

The rest is History.

From the descriptions given in the game manual, it seems the charr were fighting with the ascalons for a long time before, but never built up enough for a huge invasion. (northern wall was built a long time before game time).

SnipiousMax · Apr 10, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Where did the Seer Originate from? Why was he/she fighting with the Mursaat to begin with?

As for Glint.

It was brought up that Glint was destined and created to be the Guardian of the world. I think that Her role was less of a direct role, and more of a twisting of threads to make things happen. She recieved the Prophecy, and passed the information on to people that would be instrumental in bringing it to pass. Perhaps the titans were destined to be released to begin with, regardless of the efforts of the Mantle/Murssat and the Lich. So if it was known that the Titans were going to be released, perhaps Glint saw and understood the passing of events from the perspective only an immortal being could have. She may have seen the neccesity of the Lich and Chosen alike in putting a lasting and strong seal on the Door of Komalie. The Liches supercharged soul, may have been required to charge the batteries sufficiently to keep the titans locked away. So in passing the Prophecy on to the Vizer, she would have brought that half of the equation into play. She may have seen a need for something to drive the chosen towards their destiny. The war with the char, the flight from Ascalon would have only brought them so far. Perhaps seeing the Evil of the Mantle and the Mursaat was what was needed to drive us into the path we needed to take in order to complete the flameseeker prophecies.

Another thought, a few times NPC's as they're talking to themselves can be seen mentioning the Flameseeker prophecies, such as the Villagers in the Ascalonian Settlement. It would stand to reason that the prophecy was common knowledge.

Symeon · Apr 13, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Ok, sorry for the absence, I have been working on this post (amongst other things jutting into my time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis_master

Well we seem to be all tacking about the flameseeker prophies but who or what is the flameseeker?

Vizier Khilbron: "I am the Flameseeker"

He said it himself, and...it was true

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

As for Glint.

It was brought up that Glint was destined and created to be the Guardian of the world. I think that Her role was less of a direct role, and more of a twisting of threads to make things happen. She recieved the Prophecy, and passed the information on to people that would be instrumental in bringing it to pass. Perhaps the titans were destined to be released to begin with, regardless of the efforts of the Mantle/Murssat and the Lich. So if it was known that the Titans were going to be released, perhaps Glint saw and understood the passing of events from the perspective only an immortal being could have. She may have seen the neccesity of the Lich and Chosen alike in putting a lasting and strong seal on the Door of Komalie. The Liches supercharged soul, may have been required to charge the batteries sufficiently to keep the titans locked away. So in passing the Prophecy on to the Vizer, she would have brought that half of the equation into play. She may have seen a need for something to drive the chosen towards their destiny. The war with the char, the flight from Ascalon would have only brought them so far. Perhaps seeing the Evil of the Mantle and the Mursaat was what was needed to drive us into the path we needed to take in order to complete the flameseeker prophecies.

Another thought, a few times NPC's as they're talking to themselves can be seen mentioning the Flameseeker prophecies, such as the Villagers in the Ascalonian Settlement. It would stand to reason that the prophecy was common knowledge.

Interesting. I've been thinking a lot about the role of Glint, her prophecy, and who she passed it on to (or passed some of it on to). Whoever she did tell it too, by her immortal power she must have been clever enough to think through the whole sequence of events and the involvements of different groups, as long as those groups knew the prophecy, or some of it. She wove all the threads together of the prophecy, foreseeing that it would happen and making it happen.

So... just what was her motivation to do that? Was it simply part of her being the Guardian, to prophesy something, make it happen, and so things would be better? Surely, she saw all the bad things that would happen too... like the death of those that the White Mantle thought were 'The Chosen', the fall of Ascalon in the Searing, and the Cataclysm of Orr? What kind of prophecy to make things better is that?

Here is an interesting theory from the thread Charr Lore :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

(I have got another approach on this.
Warning, this version will contain spoilers to you if you haven't finished the game yet.)

So... what if all of this... is the doing of Glint and the ancient serpent race? Glint spoke about the prophecy of the Flameseeker, and as i recall those days of old... before i nearly lost my hand to this Hydra...
Well, i remember watching a small group of Charr carrying around huge pauldrons filled with fire. They were building temples for it. They were worshipping it like no tomorrow. What are the Charr? They are no dumb creatures, by no means... but they are cruel and not smart either. So who knows if Glint did not tell them their portion of the great prophecy?
If there was no war with the Charr... there would be no real heroes. We would still be lulled by our.. beautiful Ascalon. Yet, there was no peace. We were thrown into a cold blooded war that would change the face of ascalon forever. So in this moment... the White Mantle showed up. The great helping hand from far away. And we trusted them. They granted us our portion of asylum and invited us to their home.
Yet the voyage went darker still with every minute.
I, my dear friend, come to the conclusion that the mursaat were told their part of the prophecy as well. They might not have been evil to start with, but the prophecy of their own destruction made them angry and evil. Their servants of zealous kind just made things worse.
And then... we nearly lost to those white mantle. It looked as if we had lost everything if not... for yet another tool. Khilbron. He was told HIS side of the story. And he did HIS tries.

So, not to trait more of the way that lies ahead...
The only being profitting from all this mess is Glint.

The Charr? Her Tool.
The Mursaat? Her old enemy, yet a tool too.
Khilbron and the shining blade? Just another mere tool
Us? Her weapon.

Everyside lost in this war except for Glint.

This actually seems to be quite true... but for one wrong thing.

How exactly did Glint 'profit' from the whole situation? She received the prophecy, passed it on to those who would make it happen... watched the destruction of two great human nations, and so many other bad things throughout Tyria, as the Chosen made their way to free the Titans and then defeat them afterwards (along with Khilbron)... Why did she do it?

If she hadn't done it, surely things would be better? Khilbron would not have been inspired and gone to tell the Charr (and made them worship the Titans somehow), so Ascalon would not have been overrun, and... Orr would not have been destroyed...

If you think about it, those that lost the most in this were actually probably Glint's enemies. The Mursaat. Perhaps she saw the Mursaat becoming powerful in the future, and their worshippers the White Mantle overrunning Tyria... but it was not destined to be, and by making her prophecies she could change that.

I haven't actually thought about this until now. Was Glint's purpose in making the prophecies simply to prevent the Mursaat from gaining great power?

She may also have wanted to get rid of the Titans, because they were just lurking about and bound to be let loose and cause trouble eventually.

Just to shed some light on the Flameseeker Prophecies, here is some information from GuildWiki:

Quote:

The Flameseeker Prophecies are a collection of proclamations foreseen by the dragon Glint (according to her) over 800 years prior to the present day in the game. They are a collection of prophecies concerning the future of Tyria and the survival of humans in the face of great and terrible events that would engulf their world.

It is unknown what the exact prophecies are. It is evident by the end of the game that the Flameseeker himself is none other than the Lich Lord. He seems highly motivated by the prophecies.

Parts of the prophecies seen in game are the fall of the Mursaat, war in the Shiverpeaks, the finding of the Scepter of Orr, and its falling into the hands of the Lich Lord, and the opening of the Door of Komalie.

Evidently, Glint made her prophecies a very long time ago. She must have looked into what could be the future (the Mursaat gaining power), and decided that that could not be, so she prophesied something different with her immortal power, and made plans on how to make it happen.

Of course, this links back to the Gods, and who exactly was to blame for all the bad things. Khilbron was bad...but only because of Glint's prophecy. Glint's prophecy was bad... but, the Gods created her as the first guardian of the world! Surely the Gods had the power to prophesy too! What were they thinking?

Long post, I know. But I think this is the most in-depth examination I have ever done on Glint.

There is still plenty more for us to discuss, and all these things need to be concluded upon for the holes to be covered up and the mist driven out. Remember, we’re looking for the gaps here, to fill them in, and those could range from gaps in information in quests and missions, to gaps in the connections between characters and particular groups in their contribution to the storyline.

I have more to bring up, but I will do that later, as this post would go on for a good deal longer than it already is otherwise. Look over what we have already begun to discuss, and build upon it. Put in your own opinions so that we may all makes compromises and conclusions together.

And, I am introducing a new project tomorrow, and as it will be fairly large it will span two weeks as well before the next one after that is started, which will, of course, be related to Guild Wars: Factions.

By all means keep this project going, we still have so much to look at and conclude on.

anubis_master · Apr 14, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

If you think about it, those that lost the most in this were actually probably Glint's enemies. The Mursaat. Perhaps she saw the Mursaat becoming powerful in the future, and their worshippers the White Mantle overrunning Tyria... but it was not destined to be, and by making her prophecies she could change that.

One of the main reason the mursaat are so powerful is because of their white mantle grunts to do most there work. but if Glint wanted to weaken the mursaat she would need to tell the prophecy to the charr. then the charr would have never invaded kryta thus the white mantal would never exist and the mursaat woud be without grunts. But then agein mabey the mursaat would have somehow become more powerful in some way only glint could forsee a needed to take care of it.

Markaedw · Apr 15, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

We keep saying Glint is the only winner, winner of what? She sits in her pocket dimension hidden in a grain of sand, what threat were the Mursaat to her.

At one time she was more well know, there are mural and statues of her trough out Tyria.

I don't know about the relation of Seer's race and the Mursaat. The seeer's have 4 arms, and definitely a non human face, the Mursaat look almost human.

SnipiousMax · Apr 15, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Interesting. I've been thinking a lot about the role of Glint, her prophecy, and who she passed it on to (or passed some of it on to). Whoever she did tell it too, by her immortal power she must have been clever enough to think through the whole sequence of events and the involvements of different groups, as long as those groups knew the prophecy, or some of it. She wove all the threads together of the prophecy, foreseeing that it would happen and making it happen.

So... just what was her motivation to do that? Was it simply part of her being the Guardian, to prophesy something, make it happen, and so things would be better? Surely, she saw all the bad things that would happen too... like the death of those that the White Mantle thought were 'The Chosen', the fall of Ascalon in the Searing, and the Cataclysm of Orr? What kind of prophecy to make things better is that?

The God's to begin with aren't neccesarily Good or Evil. Let's just say all of them together balance each other out. So rather than define Guardian as 'Protector'....We should probally look at Glint as the balancing Force in the world.

As for her Motivation...again, I think she's striving towards balance. She saw things that if left uncorrected, would mean that the world would be in danger of Chaos.

Yes I think she knew what was going to happen as she pulled the strings... but look at the good things that came out of the bad. There is no longer a war between Kyrta and Ascalon. The Lion Guard and Royal Family have control of Kyrta again. The Shining Blade have established themselves in the Henge. The Civil War amongst the Dwarves is over. The Murasaat (that I suggest didn't belong here in the first place...Something of an unnatural or unwelcome squatter) are gone. The titans are locked away idenfinately. The Char are left weakened and battered (my take on the last Titan mission, is that we left them leaderless, and killed the strongest among them.) So while many bad things did happen....Things eventually balanced out, and order was restored. That is what I think is glints role. Not preventing the bad...but making sure order is preserved.

Sentao Nugra · Apr 15, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

If Glint is a balancing force, and the "Seer Race" is on the verge of extinctin (due to the Mursaat wars,) is it possible that the whole Flameseeker Prophecies was a foresight prevention of any one species being completely destroyed?

Sorry if that seems wack, its 2:00 am and i just thought of that

Dragonheart · Apr 16, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

another thing:
was the vizier behind the stone summit as well? how did rurik get from them to the lich at the end?

Dj Tano · Apr 16, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

When you watch the lord of the rings movies you might think that the whole trip takes about a couple months but actually it takes around 30 years so we dont really know...

Aeon221 · Apr 17, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Is anyone else weirded out by the fact that the skeles use water magic, but the vizier doesn't? It seems like a property of skeles in general, but still, what gives?

Also, some of the story seems looted from LotR. Passage through treacherous mountains, utilizing tunnels, in which our heroic leader is smacked the RED ENGINE GO down?

Flash forward, we end up in a keep, protecting a king, when we are saved by an army of the dead.

Flash forward again, we end up taking the fight to the enemy, who live inside a big ass mountain. We destroy our foe inside the caldera of the mountain itself... at least we didn't need a goofy scene involving a ring.

If you check out the big burning widgie in front of Nolani, you can CLEARLY see that it is a titan. It even uses the same model.

Plus, titan source is inside the heart of charr territory. Nuff said.

Charr and Titans/Lich, White Mantle and Mursaat, Us (the good guys and the Deldies) and Glint. Ascalon/Kryta and the Old Gods.

Who do the Summit have as their holy man? The Iron Forgeman was not in the game originally.

And where are the other Lands of the Gods?

Symeon · Apr 17, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Just to let everyone know, I moved five posts concerning that temple in the Maguuma Jungle to the other lore project, as I feel they belong more in there.

Dragonheart · Apr 17, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

are the seal guardians in the abbadon's mouth mission the chosen from kryta that were sacrificed?

Symeon · Apr 17, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonheart

are the seal guardians in the abbadon's mouth mission the chosen from kryta that were sacrificed?

Well, on that thought, I just went to Hell's Precipice and found the NPC that I thought would have the answer. His name is Jacob Salinger, and what he says completely proves that yes, they were the sacrified Chosen.

kduv889 · Apr 24, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by djengo

I think that the shifty-shiny stone things are just there to be pretty. wouldn't sombody in town have somthing to say like "gee, i wonder what those strange stones that were never here before are doing here". Maybe every little thing does not have storyline significance, maybe the designers just wanted to use the shifty shinyness effect somewhere...

you should look around Tyria more, these shrines are not ONLY at the Grenditch Courthouse, but also in the cinimatics with Confesser Dorrian and also in other outposts and in the exploreable areas, I'm convinced that there is more to these shrines than just looking pretty.... -.- lol

Kduv889

anubis_master · Apr 24, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kduv889

you should look around Tyria more, these shrines are not ONLY at the Grenditch Courthouse, but also in the cinimatics with Confesser Dorrian and also in other outposts and in the exploreable areas, I'm convinced that there is more to these shrines than just looking pretty.... -.- lol

They are probibly just rocks. oon earth rocks that are made of same substances can be found all over the globe not in one area. They probibly found them and said they would look good at the court house the use hammer and chissil to make them look good. Just because they are shiny dont mean they must have hidden powers or secret origens.

anubis_master · Apr 28, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

sorry about the dupple post but no one else decided to post.
I went to cheak out thes grendich courthouse rocks. In side they have fires burning which means they are hollow and when you get up close thay look more metalic the rock.