Curse

Symeon · Mar 31, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Hello everyone! A week is up since the last project ( First Lore Project: Factions Preview Event! ) was started...so as the scheme goes, a new one will now be introduced!

Before I start, I'd just like to say that all discussion and research on the previous project should still be continued as much as possible; the purpose of introducing a new project every week is simply to keep the forum flowing. If you feel it is too quick (or too slow

) feel free to express your thoughts by PMing me. I don't see any problem with the weekly system, but I am willing to take the views of others into consideration. Projects may be eventually 'wrapped up', but expect there to be several projects going on at once when we really get into this.

Enough of that! While still working on the old...there is a new task at hand!

The storyline of Guild Wars, the background to it, and the involvements of all the characters and races in the main plot, is shrouded with a dense mist. Throughout our adventures, we stepped past holes where information, detail or explanation was missing...and as we moved away, from these holes thick white gas spurted up into the atmospehere, joining with the mists. But once we finished our adventure...naturally, we turned back. And this is the situation right now: we look out into the mist, and feel the urge to clear it out. We stride forth into the mists with the information we have been given in our heads, and think about the information that we have not been given. And we try to draw our own conclusions, to reach compromises, to cover over the holes and drive out the mist that hangs over us.

In other words: there are so many missing details in the storyline and things to conclude now we have finished our adventure. These may include:

Gaps in information about the involvement of races or particular characters
Gaps in information as to what happens to specific races and characters whilst we stride on through Tyria
Gaps in information in the procedure/contribution of missions and quests
Gaps in information that lies in the background of the Guild Wars storyline (i.e. manual lore and events leading up to the beginning of the game)
Missing details throughout the outline of the main plot
Who was to blame for the troubled times that Tyria has been through? The Lich? The Gods themselves? Glint and her prophecy? Or something else? I have noticed in previous discussions of involvement of characters that it always seems to boil down to specific ones. But how much can each be blamed and if they had 'responsibilities', what were they?
What are the exact links between those characters and races that were heavily involved in the story, such as the White Mantle, the Mursaat, the Lich, and Glint? Also, if and when they come together in the game, how do they react to each other?
How many days/months/years has our adventure taken? What was the exact sequence of events? Timeline perhaps?

And more I'm sure.

So, let's discuss, research, put forward opinions, make our own conclusions, and then work together to reach compromises on all of these things. Good luck! Remember, information could be found inside and outside of Guild Wars (manual, internet - GuildWiki, etc.)!

And...we don't have to discuss the suggested subjects in any particular order!

If you have any written or pictorial evidence that may be useful here, post it up!

kduv889 · Mar 31, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

hi i just wanted to say that i am doing a school project which consists of me writing a novel. I've chosen to use Guild Wars as the base for my novel. It will include me seting up a journey for my main character and as the journey progresses, eventually 7 other members coming along. im really looking forward to this novel, but one of the hardships in me doing this is knowing the background and the MAIN plot to the storyline of Guildwars. I dont plan to use the exact plot, of course it needs to be my own work, but it will help me as well, if we all bring comments and evidence and the sort to this forum to help make that storyline more clear. I hope people get into this forum because i would really appeciate the technical help on the storyline so i can have a clearer picture of where i'll be taking this novel. thanks so much and get postin!

Kduv889

Lonk · Mar 31, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

And don't forget the biggest mystery of them all, what happens to Gwen?

But in all seriousness yeah there is a good bit of plot holes in the lore/game that I hope are resolved sooner rather than later.

saneo · Mar 31, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Found this on guildwars.com
Home > The World > Story

Timeline
The Mouvelian Calendar
The Mouvelian calendar (named after Grand Patriarch Mouvel, the first high priest of the Church of Dwayna) begins counting years from the moment the gods left Tyria. This event is known as the Exodus. Years before this date are labeled BE (Before the Exodus). Years after this date are AE (After the Exodus). Years prior to the year 1 AE count down, getting smaller as they get closer to the time of the Exodus (just as they do in the Gregorian calendar).

There are four seasons and 360 days in the Mouvelian year:
Season of the Zephyr (Air aligned) days 1-90
Season of the Phoenix (Flame aligned) days 91-180
Season of the Scion (Water aligned) days 181-270
Season of the Colossus (Earth aligned) days 271-360

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it also says that present day(i assume the point at which a new character reaches post-searing ascalon) is 1072 AE, being 1072 years after the Gods left Tyria.
One way to find certain seasons in game would be to look at what elemental skills the monsters use. I seem to remember that a lot of the time certain areas usually consisted of monsters using the same elements. For example, in Ascalon, gargoyles use air magic, and the charr use fire magic, this could mean that one spends about half a year in ascalon. This is just a guess, and there are regions where monsters use channel different elements, although i would exclude bosses from determining which element a region is aligned with.

Haggard · Apr 01, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I think the elements used is more enviroment based than time based - for example, the ice golems and stuff in the shiverpeaks probably dont pull out their fire hats when the Season of the Phenix rolls round.

SnipiousMax · Apr 01, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Was the Charr invasion ever halted? Did the Ascalonians win, meaning the expetition to kyrta was meaningless? Or are the Charr and Ascalon still fighting?

I didn't feel that the titan quest answered any of those questions. It just sorta ended. Not really a resolution.

Leddy · Apr 01, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

The ending of the Hell's Precipice mission has Glint saying that it is the "Season of the Scion". So the story ends in the Season of the Scion. Now, to work out when it starts.

Eldin · Apr 01, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

It remains if the Charr are still persistent enough to fight Ascalon, despite their Gods' defeat.

I would reckon that Kryta is the most stable kingdom at this time. Their generosity with settlements, and rebuilding of the Old Order are all going smoothly. If any white mantle resistance remain, it is probably not a force so powerful that it would be any threat.

The idea of the seasons makes pretty good sense.

Air Gargoyles
Flame-Wielding Charr
Ice Golems/Other Shiverpeak Denizens
Maguuma Jungle

That really leaves the undead out, but they're pretty well-rounded in skills, due to the fact they were once humans, so I don't think the environment has much of a control on their powers.

Gwen's fate is a neverending mystery...if we wanted to ponder that, we would open another thread.

A rough timeline...

Pre-Searing: One day.
Post-Searing: Half a year, perhaps a few months at the least.
Northern Shiverpeaks: A week, maybe two. It's hard to decide how the refugees fared, for we were not really in the same situations as they were - we were out killing things.
Kryta: A few weeks? The time spent relaxing was very short-lived.
Maguuma Jungle: I have no idea here...perhaps a whole month or more, seeing how the mantle had formulated numerous plans (all those White Mantle Wrath quests), and we seem to have spent enough time for Evennia and Saidra to really trust us.
Crystal Desert: Some time...weeks, maybe months. It's really hard to decide, for the Shining Blade npcs act as if you haven't seen you in ages, but if it was truly months, you think Evennia and Saidra would have been captured and killed some time ago - unless the Blade were really good at evading the Mantle.
Southern Shiverpeaks: A few weeks.
Ring Of Fire: Mere days.

The Titans must have spread across Tyria over a matter of weeks. Surely they could not populate the world in mere seconds after completing Abaddon's Mouth.

Symeon · Apr 01, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Right,

I think the topic of the seasons, and the timeline, would be a good thing to start on. I think Eldin's summary is pretty accurate, and I wouldn't really say anything very different to that myself.
The idea of the adventure advancing through the seasons interests me...however, it doesn't seem to cover everything. It doesn't seem right that we are in fiery Hell's Precipice in the Season of the Scion, the water season...
But those other ones match. Could have meaning, could not.

I also think that SnipiousMax's mention of what is going on in Ascalon with the Charr, and leading on to other things about what has happened to the world while we have moved on, is something we should look at in detail. This is a subject that we don't have much evidence on and must draw our own conclusions based on opinion.

Feel free to dive into the other subjects I mentioned in the first post, though. There's a lot to cover and it will take a good deal of discussion to establish final compromises on all these areas.

kduv889: I hope the conclusions we make in this thread will help you with your novel. Though, feel free to help us make those conclusions

SnipiousMax · Apr 01, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

Pre-Searing: One day.
Post-Searing: Half a year, perhaps a few months at the least.
Northern Shiverpeaks: A week, maybe two. It's hard to decide how the refugees fared, for we were not really in the same situations as they were - we were out killing things.
Kryta: A few weeks? The time spent relaxing was very short-lived.
Maguuma Jungle: I have no idea here...perhaps a whole month or more, seeing how the mantle had formulated numerous plans (all those White Mantle Wrath quests), and we seem to have spent enough time for Evennia and Saidra to really trust us.
Crystal Desert: Some time...weeks, maybe months. It's really hard to decide, for the Shining Blade npcs act as if you haven't seen you in ages, but if it was truly months, you think Evennia and Saidra would have been captured and killed some time ago - unless the Blade were really good at evading the Mantle.
Southern Shiverpeaks: A few weeks.
Ring Of Fire: Mere days.

The Titans must have spread across Tyria over a matter of weeks. Surely they could not populate the world in mere seconds after completing Abaddon's Mouth.

If you think that we had part in establishing the Henge, then I imagine we were in the Jungle for quite some time.

I imagine the trip through the Siverpeaks lasting longer than a week or two. Traveling with a large group of people is a very long hard and tedious process, I can't imagine they all made it in one week. And we were kinda following behind at some points, and going on ahead at some points. So we'd be traveling back and forth along the line.

I also think that our time in the crytsal desert was bit longer, a couple of months to a year. It was a time for much soul searching, preperation, training, etc. And the Shining Blade are essentially Guerillas, so it would take the White Mantle some time to track them all down. And being that they are leaders, the would have held Evennia and Saidra for some time, hoping to squeeze information from them.

I do agree that our time in Southern Shiverpeaks and Ring of Fire were brief, we were kinda a catalyst for big changes, but the fight had be going on for quite awhile when we arrived.

I've only done the titan set of quests once. Were the Char being controled by the titans in the last quest of the series? Remember the level 25+ char that you have to kill on the way to the Titan Source? So maybe the Char break and Run as we kill the titans?

Another thing that I've wondered about. If the Char caused the searing...Why didn't they just keep 'searing' Ascalon till it was a smoldering heap? Did a similar event happen in Orr (homeland of the "Vizer")? Is the lich the one that gave this power to the Char?

Eldin · Apr 01, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

The Charr worship the Titans as their Gods. The Titans did not really "control" them, but as their Gods, they pretty much were under their control anyway.

I still believe the searing was created ONLY to weaken Ascalon (what's the fun in terrorizing a kingdom if it's already completely obliterated?), and to drive the Chosen through the Shiverpeaks, Kryta, etc until they eventually unleash the Titans, as said by the prophecy.

I think the Titans gave the Charr the power to start the searing, so that they could thusly drive the Chosen out to free the Titans. The Lich does not really care for the Charr, he simply wants the Titans so he can rule Tyria. However, since he commands the Titans, that command the Charr, he does command the Charr in the process.

Orr was destroyed by the Cataclysm. When the Charr were at the gate to Arah, the Holy City, Vizier Khilbron unleashed dark magic from one of the forbidden scrolls, destroying the entire kingdom, blasting a major faction of it into the sea, destroying both the Orrians and the Charr, and such dark magic was so powerful it brought the Orrians back as undead. We still do not know of Khilbron accidentally started the Cataclysm in desperation to save his kingdom, or if he had been planning this for some time, so that he could become a Lich and command an army of undead.

Teh Monkeys · Apr 01, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I still believe the searing was created ONLY to weaken Ascalon (what's the fun in terrorizing a kingdom if it's already completely obliterated?), and to drive the Chosen through the Shiverpeaks, Kryta, etc until they eventually unleash the Titans, as said by the prophecy.

The goal of the searing was to weaken/destroy Ascalon, and to continue down south to Orr. The Charr had no hidden agenda. They wanted to conquer the human nations/Tyria. Period.

Quote:

I think the Titans gave the Charr the power to start the searing, so that they could thusly drive the Chosen out to free the Titans. The Lich does not really care for the Charr, he simply wants the Titans so he can rule Tyria. However, since he commands the Titans, that command the Charr, he does command the Charr in the process.

The titans have been safely locked away behind the door of Komali for centuries/Millenia, there was no way for them to help the Charr. The searing was caused by something else. A bloodstone in Charr territory maybe?

Quote:

We still do not know of Khilbron accidentally started the Cataclysm in desperation to save his kingdom, or if he had been planning this for some time, so that he could become a Lich and command an army of undead.

I see no reason at all to assume Khilbron was a bad man. It was not stated or even hinted ANYWHERE that he was like "Yeah, I'm a vizier, and due to RPG stereotyping I am therefor evil, so I'm just gonna blow up Orr and conquer all of Tyria". The Lore discribes Khilbron as a man loyal to king and country, using the lost scrolls as an act of desperation to save his homeland.

Dragonheart · Apr 02, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

wait...so how and when did the Vizier become the Undead Lich?

and i think the story of the game was much longer than half year

and so the charr invasion was related to the lich the whole time?

SnipiousMax · Apr 02, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonheart

and so the charr invasion was related to the lich the whole time?

It'd be super interesting if it was! Just think, Vizier finds the scrolls, gives the Charr the power to start the searing to drive the chosen into the prophecy and to give himself an excuse to use the scrolls to make an undead army. So the Lich would have a lot more puppets than was apparent. But of course that's making a bunch of leaps.

Another big question. The Mursaat and the mantle where keeping the blood stones charged right, which were keeping the Titans from escaping....so does that mean they were good guys. (well as good as people who do human sacrifices can be)

Unkemptwolf · Apr 02, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Personally I would vote that it broke down like this (as far as the timeline goes)

Presearing can be ignored, since it takes place two years beforehand.

3 Months in Ascalon
2 Months to cross the Shiverpeaks
2 Months in kryta (just long enough to ensure the settlement was safe & join the mantle)
2 Months in the Maguuma
2 Months in the desert
3 weeks in the southern shiverpeaks
1 week in the ring of fire.

I think that should add up to a year, give or take. Why do I think it took exactally a year, you ask? Well, quite simple, because the release date of factions (which happens after Prophecies, as I understand) is exactally one year after the release date of GW:P. While this may seem to be unreleated, it makes perfect sense to my sleep deprived mind.

Oh! I found Gwen, btw, funny I didnt see her before as shes right out in the open, you can find her... *passes out from exaustion*

Psykewne · Apr 02, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

When glint mentions the season of scion (water) she could be refferring to its beginning as that would make sense having just defeated a bunch of burning thingies... so finishing at that season would make a lot of sense.

I'd assume the searing power was granted as a one time thing to the charr in order to catalyze the entire flameseeker prophecies. What is interesting is that ascalon hasnt fallen when you return to defeat the titans there. If this whole adventure does indeed take place over a whole year, then the charr's progress after we leave the ascalon region must be very slow for them to still not have toppled the entire place.

With that said maybe there is more to the charr's invasion. Because they were marching over numerous settlements in ascalon throughout the missions despite the minor victories we had. The capital city Rin was burning when we arrived from Nolani Academy... So if the vizier was helping them, did he stop helping them after driving the chosen to the shiverpeaks? Because the ndespite the charr's foothold in ascalon, they might have been held at bay for some time.

I think there are enough hints that the charr are not just working alone and must be supported by something. The effigies (sp?) of the titans found in some locations hint that they have a connection to the prophecies and maybe the vizier has used the titan form to act as a god to the charr.

There's certainly alot left to explain on the charr's invasion.

Mentalmdc · Apr 02, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I agree that when Glint says the season of Scion it is quite significant. It follows the season of the Pheonix, the season of fire and if the season of Scion has just begun then that would mean the fight with the titans would have taken place in the season of fire. So we fight against fire in the season of fire but once it is defeated, it has been extinguised, significantly water puts out fire so the month of Scion begins to show that the fiery titans have been put out and defeated as such.

As for the char offensive whilst we were away the one thing absolutely no one has any real idea about is exactly what happened with the 'fabled horn' Stormcaller. Did it work, did it fail? What was it? Apparently it would extinguish the fires that powered the char, which it did, and Rurik declares char hunting season open showing that something has happened, however we are still forced to run. Could it be that the horn worked however the numbers of char are so overwhelming it makes no difference. This would make sense as it would make the char nearly powerless so that they could not topple the state of ascalon but a large beast will not just roll over dead and Ascalon is so underpowered they still fail to knock back the threat resulting in a stalemate. A draw that is until the Titans are released which restore power to the char resulting in the Titan Quest in ascalon.

Just an idea, but a large area of the story that needs to be discovered is what exactly the whole Hornblower sega was.

anubis_master · Apr 02, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Ok first thing. I think there was alot of plot holes for a reason. During the game you only know what your character knows. So in that case your character wouldn't know if the lich was relly supplying the charr with the stuff they need to attack ascolon so the game wouldn't tell you thus its up to you to get ideas such as that.

Seconed. If i remember corectly (please tell me if i'm wrong) That Glint tells you when your in her cave that you were in the dessert for two years while your freinds (the shining blade) have been being hunted down by the white mantle.

Third. I do suport the idea Were the lich was behind the whole charr thing to herd the chosen out of ascolon and eventualy bring the titans but I also think it was Vizier's idea from the begining to turn himself into the lich and make orr into a undead army. The undead army would bring the white mantle who would start killing the chosen. He was hoping he could kill the chosen early on so he did not need the titans to rule tyria. His back up plan was the titans if the white mantle did not suceed in killing the chosen.

fourthly. Could the lich be behind the stone summit as well as charr?

lastly:Prince Rurik comes back as undead in the ring of fire. He still had his memory and his own thought, because when he is talking to you he says he dosen't want to attack try to kill you, but still he could not control his actions. So mabey all undead can still relate to their old human selfs but are being mind controlled by the cepter of orr. So mabey Vizier made the cepter before he became the lich to control the undead army when he made it but then lost it in the "explosion" that sunk orr.

Eomer Constantine · Apr 03, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

"The Charr worship the Titans as their Gods. The Titans did not really "control" them, but as their Gods, they pretty much were under their control anyway"

The Charr actually worship mursatt. Take a look at the burning shrines they build all over ascalon. They look exactly like mursatt.

As for the mantle and mursatt keeping the titans under control, I don't think they were "good guys", just that they were planning on using the titans for their own agenda.

Xeeron · Apr 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonk

And don't forget the biggest mystery of them all, what happens to Gwen?

My favorite explanation so far: Goth Gwen

- Xeeron