Curse

Zallya · May 24, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Most of you are probably aware of what appears to be a temple of Balthazar in The Falls, one of the most out of the way places in Tyria.

I took a trip to that temple for the first time today, and immediately started theorizing who or what could have built it. The temple is overgrown with large plants, so its obviously very old. What could have been around so long ago to build it?

The following (of what I believe to have existed when it was built) I have discluded-

Giants - They would have made the temple alot bigger for sure, and there is no sign of Giant skeletons anywhere
Mursaat - It would more than likely be made of Mursaat Jade
Druids - I can't see them building anything, and if they did it would probably be a statue of Melandru
Dragons - Again, the temple would have been bigger
Centaur - Same as with the druids, I expect they wouldnt build structures, and I doubt their god would be Balthazar. I don't even know if they existed there when it would have been built.

I highly doubt it was humans, the structure is made of an almost metallic stone, very shiny (can't remember where I've seen it before). I doubt this is the craftsmanship of humans.

This has left me with 2 remaining ideas-

Forgotten - This one I am less convinced of. As far as I know, they haven't left the desert before. I might be wrong, but even then its on the complete opposite side of Tyria.
Seer - See below

I am fairly convinced that it was the Seer. We know very little about them, so there is no way of saying they couldn't have. Then, I noticed this on the ramp leading into the temple. (link due to image resolution)

If anybody knows the race who would have constructed that symbol, please tell me right away. I first thought the eye was reminicent of the symbol used for mesmers, but then the statue would be of Lyssa. I also wondered if it could be a Wind Rider, but that I doubt too.
This leaves Seers in the list in my head, the temple itself is reminiscent of their looks.

The following is probably the biggest speculation, and most likely to be incorrect idea in my theory- Balthazar is a seer, or at least originated from wherever the Seer come from. I don't know an awful lot about the lore on Balthazar, so if anyone has evidence to prove that wrong immediately, please do. What first struck me is how both Balthazar and the Seer always have their arms in a sort of folded position, Balthazars on his sword. The extra set of arms? Those could easily be under his cape, which is the other thing they share in common. For his head.. Well, that is what makes me think it is probably incorrect.

The other thing that supports the Seer theory, is one of the few things we actually know about them - They are at war with the Mursaat. Worshipping Balthazar, being the god of war, would be enough reason for them to see the need to battle, though the gap in this is we don't know why they are at war with them, or which side is attacking the other.

This theory is incredibly speculous, so if anybody has anything that can prove this wrong, or another peoples who could have built the templte, it is just as welcome as evidence to support the theory

Mentalmdc · May 24, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I think, Though i may be mistaken, but that is the same symbol and section of ground as in HA when you fight the zaishen

Gmr Leon · May 24, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Yea,but alot of the textures you see in GW are repeated to save time in the development process.

Sol_Vie · May 24, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

That symbol and structure is also the same in the Underworld near that castle type thing at the end of a smite run.

lightblade · May 25, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

The Titans...wait...that was from WarCraft...

Perhaps the Ancient Kings? Like in Crystal Desert?

Maybe an forgotten/destroyed gateway to HoH? Just like Tomb of Primal Kings?

Ah...just came to me...The Zaishen Order? Because the structural design looks like HA...

Gmr Leon · May 25, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

The Zaishen Order are from Cantha and Cantha opened trade with Tyria in 221 AE,but was their organization in existence then? If so then why would they go that deep into the Maguuma Jungle?

Questions create the need for answers and yet these answers open wide a whole new array of questions. Indeed this is quite interesting.

Also,that temple was there before the Battle Isles were in existence in the game and same goes for the Zaishen Order.Therefore that sort of removes the possibility of them creating that temple.

Hm...do the Factions Manuscripts have a timeline and if so does it tell when the Zaishen Order was formed?

Zallya · May 25, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I just looked through my copy of the Factions timeline in the manuscript, and the Zaishen aren't mentioned once, so they remain a mystery. Though you are right about when Cantha started trading with Tyria, there is this -

Quote:

100BE: High planes human settlements become known as Ascalon. Ascalon's new king recieves first Canthan ambassador.

So although they only started trading in 221AE, there was other contact before that. Although the links we have between Tyria and Cantha only state two locations, Ascalon and (if we assume that is where the trade takes place) Lion's Arch, so why they would go so deep into the Maguuma Jungle would puzzle me.

Ancient Kings? I don't know much about them unfortunately, so I can't say yes or no to that, but the makeup seems significantly different to that of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings, if that is what you are talking about.

Roupe · May 25, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

I think its just an abondoned Krytan Temple, perhaps from the times when the druids existed, and the jungle was more peacefull. The temple was of course used by normal krytans, not the druids

My guess is (in short)that the aggresive monsters are New: before the seering -people could wander quite peacefully to that temple (even though it may not been in use for several hundreds of years) and to many other places.

After all, all over the place npcs remark that the world have been over run with monsters, and things that was peacefull now isnt. Not only in Ascalon but all over the world.

This would explain the various houses in the jungle (that doesnt seem kentaur friendly) and the "stranded" low lvl npc collectors& merchants in dangerous areas. not to mention the nice maintained macadam roads. There also are some White mantle wagons near that place, btw so it seems it is or at least was (until recently) a traveled road.

Symeon · May 25, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

That symbol - it is an eye. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere, possibly on GWOnline, but that may be the Eye of Janthir, in which case we get indications of the White Mantle and the Mursaat. However, that confuses the whole thing because neither the Mantle nor the Mursaat worship Balthazaar!

This links to the whole discussion that has gone on at GWOnline for a while about the Mursaat, Seer and Forgotten/Enchanted in the desert all being linked back to the same race of Forgotten, which in turn split. Perhaps the Mursaat were Forgotten who ascended, while the Seer may have moved into a separate area from the others. This would mean they could have worshipped Balthazaar, perhaps. The other Forgotten's remnants are seen in the desert. A very large, tangled complex of stories, roots and evidence.

I may start a thread on such things, though a lot of it has been beaten out over on GWOnline before - we at GWG may be able to draw our own, different conclusions, however.

The Son Of Morgoth · May 25, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I really think is the forgotten.

The undead Mesmer · May 25, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

That symbol - it is an eye. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere, possibly on GWOnline, but that may be the Eye of Janthir, in which case we get indications of the White Mantle and the Mursaat. However, that confuses the whole thing because neither the Mantle nor the Mursaat worship Balthazaar!

This links to the whole discussion that has gone on at GWOnline for a while about the Mursaat, Seer and Forgotten/Enchanted in the desert all being linked back to the same race of Forgotten, which in turn split. Perhaps the Mursaat were Forgotten who ascended, while the Seer may have moved into a separate area from the others. This would mean they could have worshipped Balthazaar, perhaps. The other Forgotten's remnants are seen in the desert. A very large, tangled complex of stories, roots and evidence.

I may start a thread on such things, though a lot of it has been beaten out over on GWOnline before - we at GWG may be able to draw our own, different conclusions, however.

Sym i have to disagree with you on this one....
The eye of Janthir excists a lot longer then you would think.
The mursaat however are recent pests that overtook the religion of the white mantle so it could be that the white mantle did build the temple but before the mursaat took control of them.

(seems more logical ey)

JR · May 25, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Or possibly.. just thinking out loud here; it was something thrown in by Anet artists to look cool and take up some space?

Seriously, you can think TOO deep sometimes.

SnipiousMax · May 25, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Or possibly.. just thinking out loud here; it was something thrown in by Anet artists to look cool and take up some space?

Seriously, you can think TOO deep sometimes.

That was a little snappy.

The undead Mesmer · May 25, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Yes yes but that makes things like these fun JR-

(i am staying with the white mantle thingy the eye of janthir is older then you think!)

Roupe · May 25, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Or possibly.. just thinking out loud here; it was something thrown in by Anet artists to look cool and take up some space?

Seriously, you can think TOO deep sometimes.

Even if it was due to some lazy artist, the fact that it is in the guild wars "world" -makes it fair game to speculate how that odd piece would fit with other pieces.

A speculation which resulkt could spark the inspiration of others, and make the guild wars world seem more whole

Zallya · May 26, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The undead Mesmer

Sym i have to disagree with you on this one....
The eye of Janthir excists a lot longer then you would think.
The mursaat however are recent pests that overtook the religion of the white mantle so it could be that the white mantle did build the temple but before the mursaat took control of them.

(seems more logical ey)

Saul D'allesio founded the white mantle around the time of the searing correct? Before that there was just the Lionguard in Kryta. I don't see how that temple could have been built only two years ago and be overgrown with vines as big as those. Thats my theory anyway... Unless somebody used those seeds which make massive vines grow instantly.

AnnaM · May 26, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

If you look behind the statue near the back wall, one can see an older stone wall literally being cut off at an angle by the newer temple wall that is made of the shiny material.

The older Balth temple perhaps has been taken over by the newer 'shinystone' people to usurp or 'hijack' what powers they can from the alter.

AnnaM

Unkemptwolf · May 31, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

However, that confuses the whole thing because neither the Mantle nor the Mursaat worship Balthazaar!

Do we know that the Mursaat dont worship the old gods? Being natives of Tyria, they would've been created by the old gods, and since they clearly rely on their abilities, it would make sense that they maintain at least some connection to the old gods, even if this is kept secret from the mantle. The gods do not seem to be above vengance (especially true of balthazarr and greneth) so the Mursaat would run a great risk by no longer paying them at least some respect. Just a thought.

Son of Urza · May 31, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

They do not worship the old gods. The Temple of the Ages is basically the case in point, the Mursaat and White Mantle don't really like it.

As for the forgotten . . . you seem to have "forgotten" (pun not intended but unavoidable) that they were actually spread over the entire continent of Tyria in the beginning. They were CREATED by the old gods to watch over the land, and thus would obviously worship them. They only retreated into the desert when the humans spread across the world and forced them out.

The forgotten could have done it. Not sure about the Seers.

Jetdoc · Jun 01, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Urza

They do not worship the old gods. The Temple of the Ages is basically the case in point, the Mursaat and White Mantle don't really like it.

...but the old Kryta did worship the old gods, that is, before the Mantle were developed because of the Charr invasion. That is why the Temple of Ages exists and has statues to the old gods.

Anyone think that the Maguuma centaurs got off their lazy hindquarters and built it?