Curse

around · Sep 08, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Think about it:

*They are both told by women that they will go on to great things (Macbeth will be the Thane of Cordor and the King of Scotland, whereas Shiro is told he is destined for greatness).

*They are both originally 'good' (Macbeth battled valiantly against an insurrection, whereas Shiro is an accomplished warrior).

There's probably more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

DJJD2006 · Sep 08, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Plus the Women manipulate them both to "kill" others to get to where they want to be... And the women both die half way into the story?

Massacre · Sep 08, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

In Macbeth there was a prophecy of how he was going to die, and are witches even really considered women? I thought of them more as demons of some sort in Macbeth.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 08, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I think he's Judas (bible). Or Cipher (Matrix).

Betrayal of a leader & the bad consequences thereof is a very very old and very very widespread theme.

Mars Dragonblade · Sep 09, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

In Macbeth the witches equivocate when they tell Macbeth that he will be the Thane of Cawdor and the King of Scotland, meaning they never told him HOW this would be or what the consequences would be. Macbeth DID become the King of Scotland, but he became a corrupted tyrant in the process due to greed and murdering and thus his life was forfeit and destroyed when he was killed by Macduff.
Shiro was told by the Fortune Teller that the Emperor was going to kill him, but she didn't say HOW that would happen, or if she saw Shiro being killed but by his own doing and misinterpreted it. Shiro began to notice changes in how the Emperor was behaving, eg. allowing his entourage to enter the Harvest Temple for one, and this had the effect upon Shiro that he was indeed going to be killed because there was sufficient and strong evidence. This in turn caused him to kill the Emperor out of doubt and fear, BUT he himself was also killed by Saint Viktor and Archemorus. The Fortune Teller could therefore have been right in general about Shiro's death, but failed to see how it would come about.
The similarities are very noticable, especially in how both Macbeth and Shiro were killed. The witches told Macbeth that "no one of woman born shall harm Macbeth", but Macduff was able to slay Macbeth because Macduff was born by caesarian section. Shiro was told that the Emperor was going to kill him, but the Emperor did not, and instead Shiro was slain as a result of his own actions.

Edit: The witches in Macbeth aren't killed half way through like the Fortune Teller, or at all for that matter

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Haggard · Sep 09, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Just from reading the title I was going to reply that Shiro's tale follows that of any Tragedy (specifically those in the style written in ancient Greece) - but having read your points I can see similarities in specific plot elements too.

around · Sep 09, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

Just from reading the title I was going to reply that Shiro's tale follows that of any Tragedy (specifically those in the style written in ancient Greece) - but having read your points I can see similarities in specific plot elements too.

Not really, the Prophecies storyline is a lot more complex. Factions is just a Greek tragedy with all the complex bits cut out (ie Shiro doesn't realize he's wrong, he's not a balanced person).

Stoneys Rock · Sep 09, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Yes the Shiro Macbeth similarities did show while I was playing but it was minor as in Shiro killed the emperor because as the fortune teller told him 'either you or him' and not to become someone greater as king etc it was more of a 'hmm me die or him' choice but he was sort of manipulated into it with minimal information as in Macbeth.

He saw strange behaviour from the emperor and seeing as the other 'predictions was right' he merely just went along with this one also.

maraxusofk · Sep 09, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I actually pitied shiro because he was told he was gonna get killed and assasinated the emperor in what he believed was self defense. I didnt like the character Macbeth at all (although i liked the story).

Ristaron · Sep 09, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I still have no idea what threat Shiro saw in the puny ritualists who accompanied him and the emperor inside the temple.

lapsus · Sep 10, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Well mayhaps they were another example of over level 20 chars, and who knows they could have gone ff7 and called ifirit or shiva....
And although there are sevral similarities between MacBeth and Shiro, the factions story is much much more generic. General tradgedies often have the fall from grace, i.e. Oedipus Rex, Antigone and Medea. Many involve being betrayed or betraying, i.e Ceasar (et tu brut?), medea. lol i could list more but im lazy

Aggravaar · Sep 11, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Has anyone ever seen Throne of Blood? It's a Japanese adaptation (and not a ripoff) of Macbeth (and a very, very good movie, IMO, even though I'm not into Japanese cinema). I'm bringing this up because the movie's protagonist, Taketori “Macbeth” Washizu was played by Toshirô Mifune. His son, also an actor, is named Shiro Mifune. Anet's subtle joke, perhaps?

Electric Sky · Sep 11, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

haha ! maybe anet got the idea exactly from that film ?

NinjaKai · Sep 12, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Difference being the old fortune teller actually seemed sincere.

heist23 · Sep 13, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

It's entirely possible that the Factions storyline was based off of Macbeth, but it still sucked pretty damn hard.

bigwig · Sep 13, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

There are a few similarities here and there. But the depth of macbeth makes a mockery of the factions storyline.

The only similarities are the self fulfilling prophecies, which aren't always exactly self fulfilling in macbeth, and how macbeth/shiro are relatively good before killing their king.