Curse

lapsus · Aug 12, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

am i the only who noticed argo is higher then lvl 20 in the kraken mission but in raisu palace hes only Lvl 20

Orinn · Aug 14, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

It's bugged me for a long time as well. I can't help but think that my character has ascended, attained a state "closer to the stars," defeated titans, a powerful lich-sorceror, near-omnipotent (if you believe their claims) dragons, and Shiro Tagachi.

What exactly did Kenshi Steelhand or Orosen, Tranquil Acloyte do that's so amazing that they're more experienced, further along the path of their chosen profession? It makes no sense in-game that they have progressed so much further. And Argo suddenly forgetting his signature skills and losing a portion of his power when he becomes a henchman? Can anyone justify that one with a lore explanation?

fatogreboy · Aug 14, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

characters can only attain lvl 20 because the good side must always be weak and band together to win. This creates a wholesome game experience and reassures the fact the evil can never triumph because good will band together to defeat the evil. It has and always will be a cliche that will be in every fantasy story

lapsus · Aug 14, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

cmon you had to kill the musings with reason?

Ristaron · Aug 14, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mournblade

Your logic has no place in this thread Xenrath.

Actually his logic has every place in this thread... he just didn't present it that way. Statistics and levels are based in logic, because the numbers that create them are drawn from the same essense as the rules that apply to them. These rules are based in logic.
Something is heavy, it has a greater mass, and therefore attracts things smaller and lighter towards it.
A denser metal will break a less dense material when the two are banged together hard enough (or frequently enough).

Someone is better at a task than someone else, whether through practice or natural talent, but drawn from personal experience in either case.
So, by logic or by statistics, why are we capped at level 20?

I have considered this recently, and a possible explanation has come to mind. While we no longer gain levels after level 20, we do gain skill points. These skill points are used towards learning (or purchasing) new skills that would better allow us to perform in our profession. But while it is pointless to have that be the only advantage by the time you reach level 20 - when you have all the skills you need - it does allow for further expansion of your character.
And therefore, logically, you can only improve physically (stamina and strength), through transcending to a new state altogether, rather than simply ascending to a higher understanding.
For from what has been said in-game, Ascending merely allows you to see spirits (or beings otherwise invisible), such as Shiro or the Mursaat. It is not a physical transformation, but rather an evolution in the understanding of the world (or your own body that you may activate such abilities as True Sight).

And that is where our own logic defeats us by claiming that Ascending should allow us to become as fiersome as the Titans.
But it still doesn't explain why there are HUMANS who are above level 20!

Carth` · Aug 14, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

For some reason I remembered something like that. I thought maybe it was in the Guild Wars manual, the part about the Gods giving magic to the world of Tyria, but limiting it. Turns out the limit was just separating magic so that no single creature can be the best at everything.. magic would still be powerful, but it would be the most powerful if people work together.

I couldn't find anything about level 20, and tbh, I'm not surprised. Level 20, like the numerical damage of a weapon, is the mechanics of the game, not part of the role playing. You don't see NPCs talking about their level in game, they would talk about how powerful, revered or famous etc they are.

Avarre · Aug 14, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapsus

am i the only who noticed argo is higher then lvl 20 in the kraken mission but in raisu palace hes only Lvl 20

The kraken filed a bug report, he was nerfed

Mournblade · Aug 14, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Actually his logic has every place in this thread... he just didn't present it that way. Statistics and levels are based in logic, because the numbers that create them are drawn from the same essense as the rules that apply to them. These rules are based in logic.
Something is heavy, it has a greater mass, and therefore attracts things smaller and lighter towards it.
A denser metal will break a less dense material when the two are banged together hard enough (or frequently enough).

Someone is better at a task than someone else, whether through practice or natural talent, but drawn from personal experience in either case.
So, by logic or by statistics, why are we capped at level 20?

I have considered this recently, and a possible explanation has come to mind. While we no longer gain levels after level 20, we do gain skill points. These skill points are used towards learning (or purchasing) new skills that would better allow us to perform in our profession. But while it is pointless to have that be the only advantage by the time you reach level 20 - when you have all the skills you need - it does allow for further expansion of your character.
And therefore, logically, you can only improve physically (stamina and strength), through transcending to a new state altogether, rather than simply ascending to a higher understanding.
For from what has been said in-game, Ascending merely allows you to see spirits (or beings otherwise invisible), such as Shiro or the Mursaat. It is not a physical transformation, but rather an evolution in the understanding of the world (or your own body that you may activate such abilities as True Sight).

And that is where our own logic defeats us by claiming that Ascending should allow us to become as fiersome as the Titans.
But it still doesn't explain why there are HUMANS who are above level 20!

Thanks for the dissertation professor, but my comment was only a joke.

Stockholm · Aug 14, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

The LvL 20 cap lore is this.

Balanced PVP.

Enough said

frickett · Aug 14, 2006, 04:52 PM // 16:52

But we are talking about PVE, and the fact that many of our opponents have a higher level than 20.

Stockholm · Aug 14, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickett

But we are talking about PVE, and the fact that many of our opponents have a higher level than 20.

There is no Lore, it's a technicahl thing for keeping PvP balanced, with a lvl 20 cap, they don't need to reset charachters when they enter PvP arenas.
If you have a higher lvl charachters they would all have to be reset when used in PvP, this way all balancing can be done for lvl 20.

Mournblade · Aug 14, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Thats why people are using their imaginations and creativity to come up with a plausible in-game reason for our characters to be limited to 20th level.

Giga Strike · Aug 16, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

the reason for the lvl 20 cap is because that is the limit of mantained human endurance. other humans, such as some am fah or jade brotherhood, have been granted an aura of power by the gods because they either proved their worthyness or compleated a secret ritual that is passed down through a few NPC families (which is why you can kill a boss and it will still be there for you to kill again, they're reletives).

shiro, who isn't a true boss, became lvl 31 by hording otherworldly power to himself while he was an envoy.

players could probably become bosses by meeting some requirements (no idea what). this would raise the player's lvl cap to 24 and give them an aura, but if thye were defeated in PvP the other team would get a moral boost.

Orinn · Aug 17, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

the reason for the lvl 20 cap is because that is the limit of mantained human endurance. other humans, such as some am fah or jade brotherhood, have been granted an aura of power by the gods because they either proved their worthyness or compleated a secret ritual that is passed down through a few NPC families (which is why you can kill a boss and it will still be there for you to kill again, they're reletives).

shiro, who isn't a true boss, became lvl 31 by hording otherworldly power to himself while he was an envoy.

players could probably become bosses by meeting some requirements (no idea what). this would raise the player's lvl cap to 24 and give them an aura, but if thye were defeated in PvP the other team would get a moral boost.

It's interesting that Shiro, who became mortal (and was stripped of his status as an envoy when he did so) is level 31. He voluntarily left the spirit realm, and yet as a mortal, he is so powerful.

The lore as to why we as characters are capped to level 20 isn't as compelling to me as "why aren't ALL humans capped at level 20?" If level 20 is the natural limit, mortals can't reach higher levels of power, then so be it, but the inconsistancy of having level 24 human bosses in a world where human players are stopped at level 20 bothers me. I can write off level 24 (or even level 28) non-humans, because they're expected to follow different rules from humanity, but the level 24 Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah bosses bother me. If they, humans, can do it, why can't my human character?

Of course, I bet that even if Anet does someday introduce dwarves as a playable race, they'll be capped at 20 as well. Any takers? it would be inconsistant with the way the game works, sure. but I'm willing to bet my last gold piece that dwarves will face the same limitations as humans: capped at 20 for players, not capped until 28 or higher for NPC's, and no attempt at explaining the disparity.

TGgold · Aug 17, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

My theory, going to D&D.

Maybe those people aren't really and effective lvl 24 or whatever. Maybe...they took like.. FOUR LEVELS OF NOBLE o.o We all know about the USELESS NPC classes...maybe they're in GW too!

Avarre · Aug 17, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

The lore as to why we as characters are capped to level 20 isn't as compelling to me as "why aren't ALL humans capped at level 20?" If level 20 is the natural limit, mortals can't reach higher levels of power, then so be it, but the inconsistancy of having level 24 human bosses in a world where human players are stopped at level 20 bothers me. I can write off level 24 (or even level 28) non-humans, because they're expected to follow different rules from humanity, but the level 24 Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah bosses bother me. If they, humans, can do it, why can't my human character?

I've given a reason, but my theory was shot down (without any reasoning, so it shall stand!). Random ascalonian/canthan guys got only enough power to reach level 20, Am Fah have more potential power for whatever reason.

frickett · Aug 17, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

But...aren't the Am Fah human also? What would be the reasoning behind their extra potential, Do they live on a diet of dragon moss, and mantid exoskeleton? Do their gods like them better? Do they HAX?

Avarre · Aug 17, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

That's like assuming every human born IRL has the same potential capability for every aptitude.

Some are stronger, some are not. The Am Fah only accept some of the stronger ones, perhaps.

lyra_song · Aug 17, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

"...And the Ascalons and the Students of Shing Jea reached their bodies' limits. Even after many great battles and training, they could not become stronger, as the gods chose to limit their physical strength. Their enemies towered over them with superior strength and numbers.

However, the god's had bestowed something that even their most powerful enemy could not defeat. Their determination and knowledge. Without this, their enemies could only make their bodies stronger.

After they had discovered their destinies and were enlightened to their purpose, they pooled their resources, and in small bands, they layed waste to even the strongest foes.

The Underworld became no match for the ingenuity of the spirited monk. Normally resigned to simply supporting and healing their teammates, now with a new resolve and determination began to do the bidding as Grenth's servant. Even after the forces of darkness became stronger, the monk began to partner with the necromancer, and they cleared the dark forboding place of all evil.

Across the land of Tyria and Cantha, Warriors who had become ascended and closer to the stars gained incredible knowledge. Even though they faced enemies in greater numbers and strength, they could outwit them, using superior skills and techniques, they destroyed many foes single-handedly. They traversed across the lands with impunity, running past hundreds of foes who couldn't even lay a scratch on them. Even with their magickal runes becoming slightly weaker, it didn't stop their determination.

Let's not forget the Rangers, May Melandru Bless, who have forever been at Grenth's service, clearing and destroying the vile Aataxes that haunt his domain. They use a tactic that only a clever ranger can use, calling the spirits of energizing wind and quickening zephyr to aid them as they laid pits of traps with a deadly intent. Even the strongest and most brave of demons could not withstand these dangerous traps. They would see the ranger, armed with only a staff, and chase him, only to have their world fill with darkness, burn and scream in anguish as they are pierce with spikes.

These exploits and deeds are what seperate the man from his foes. Intelligence. Wit. Cunning.

Though they are stronger, we are smarter...."

Mournblade · Aug 17, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Lyra wins the thread. Game over. =)