Curse

arsie · Dec 14, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

There seems plenty of sentient races in the GW world. I'm using the fact that they wield weapons and wear clothes for this measure. I split them up into three broad groups.

Humanoid:
Humans, Dwarves, Norn, Sylvari, Jotun, Ettin species, Giant species

Animal-like:
Charr, Asura, Dredge, Tengu species, Heket species, Centaur species, Naga species, Harpy species, Forgotten, Grawl, Destroyers

Mythical: (They have glowy bits and float)
Mursaat, Jade, Djinn, Seer, Margonites although they might have been humans

Dragons:
Glint and Kunaanveg

I might have missed some.

I see a similarity between Mursaat, Djinn, and Margonites, and I wonder at the reason for their physical similarities. To a lesser extent the Seers.

They feature limbs like human-like species, but many also have professions that can float above the ground. They sprout wings and tendrils made of light or darkness from their backs.

It could jolly well be because they are designed by the same guy at Anet, but wonder if there is a lore reason for it. The Seers claim to have fought the Mursaat for a long time, and Djinns are also from the distant past. The Margonite is relatively a new creation/mutation.

Were they from the time of the Forgotten? Is there any explantion for their unqiue physiology?

Toutatis · Dec 14, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

The Margonites were once humans, but were transformed when they turned to Abaddon. There is one possible link between the Margonites and Mursaat though - if you take a closer look at the Jade constructs the Mursaat use, you can see a 6-eyed pattern on their helms not unlike the Margonites and Abaddon himself. I don't think this is purely by chance.

Onarik Amrak · Dec 14, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

That's some pretty bad categorisation.

1. Margonites aren't "relatively new creations".
2. Humanoid humans. Who knew?
3. Who honestly can't tell that Charr, Tengu, etc are anthropomorphised beasts?
4. What's the point?

Mordakai · Dec 14, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Destroyers aren't "animal like".

And define "sentient". (I'm not sure Destroyers have "free will" if that's what you mean.

I'm more interested in what separates "civilized" (and by "civilized" I mean some sort of community, no matter how "barbaric" it may appear) non-humans from what I would call "monsters."

Ie, the Charr are now a confirmed "civilized" race, with their own backstory, community and heros.

Monsters, such as Destroyers, have no such community. (IMO)

But this, of course, is open to debate.

Vicks · Dec 15, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Just about everything in the Guild Wars world is SENTIENT. As for SAPIENCE, I believe that besides everything already listed, there are more to consider.

Despite not having any sort of civilization, beings such as the Dryders, Giants, Yetis, and Wardens all display some measure of intelligence beyond that of simple animals. They wield armor and weapons, making them tool users. Yetis also display basic language skills.

Additionally, there are some races that display other ambiguous signs of intelligence, namely the ability to practice religion (worshiping a god), the ability to cast spells beyond those inclusive to their nature (because anet isn't going to make up a monster skill to fit something's physiology when an existing skill works just fine), or structured community beyond that of a hive or colony. Examples of this would be namely Skale, Gargoyles/Mergoyles, and possibly Mantids and other very animalistic species.

Also, many of the demonic species are probably very intelligent.

Nathan of Elona · Dec 15, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Arn't Grawl just as animal like as the Charr? Or vise virsa...

Guildmaster Cain · Dec 15, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

It is said that the gods made the first sentient race, the Forgotten. But the True Giants did exist prior to them, would that make them non-sentient, or are the gods lying about the heritage of the world?

Apperently, not all sentient races are made by the gods. The Dwarves were made by the Great Dwarf (disputable wether or not this was a god). The Sylvari have still a yet to be discovered creator (unless you truely think it was Ventari that made it all happen). The Mursaat seek to replace the gods, so they can't have been created by them. Same applies for the Norn, since they don't believe in the gods at all, but the nature spirits. The Charr seem to have another creator as well, but it might as well be Balthazar, since he would suit them very well. The Asurans just see the gods as fascinating, but powerfull immortal beings.

The ones that at least acknowledge the gods for their own existence at some extend, are Humans, Dwarves, Margonites, Forgotten. The rest more or less say they are not gods at all and agree with the ideas Asurans have.

Vicks · Dec 16, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Wait... where did it say that the Mursaat want to replace the gods? They definitely thought highly of themselves but I don't recall ever hearing anything about that.

Weren't they created by the same gods? If not, what created them?

Born to Mes · Dec 17, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Maybe the Mursaat were so good at hiding that the gods didn't notice the Mursaat there. Or maybe the ones who wrote that the gods created the first sentient races didn't know about the Mursaat. That is assuming that the Mursaat were around longer than the Forgotten.

As for the Mursaat seeking to replace the gods however there is evidence of that possibility in the way that Hablion goes on talking about casting down the false gods and doing something bad to the unbelievers. The direct quote is "I am the scythe, the Bringer of Salvation. And I shall harvest the souls of the Unbelievers. For their stench will linger. Until the false gods have been cast from this world." He says it at the end of the Bloodstone Fen mission. It is unknow if that is the true objective of the Mursaat, or just Hablion going about some religious rhetoric

Cebe · Dec 17, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

Animal-like:
Charr, Asura, Dredge, Tengu species, Heket species, Centaur species, Naga species, Harpy species, Forgotten, Grawl, Destroyers

Charr? I thought Charr were "Lion Men" or some sort? Surely they should be "Humanoid".

kuhu · Dec 30, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born to Mes

Maybe the Mursaat were so good at hiding that the gods didn't notice the Mursaat there. Or maybe the ones who wrote that the gods created the first sentient races didn't know about the Mursaat. That is assuming that the Mursaat were around longer than the Forgotten.

As for the Mursaat seeking to replace the gods however there is evidence of that possibility in the way that Hablion goes on talking about casting down the false gods and doing something bad to the unbelievers. The direct quote is "I am the scythe, the Bringer of Salvation. And I shall harvest the souls of the Unbelievers. For their stench will linger. Until the false gods have been cast from this world." He says it at the end of the Bloodstone Fen mission. It is unknow if that is the true objective of the Mursaat, or just Hablion going about some religious rhetoric

Religious rhetoric is my guess.

gargytama · Dec 30, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Charr? I thought Charr were "Lion Men" or some sort? Surely they should be "Humanoid".

Hehe, dont look on the Charr and say that they're humanoids, we've got bigger problem than that ^^

The Dredge doesn't look like an animal-like foe, nor a humanoid so what are they xD

Sleeper Service · Dec 30, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargytama

Hehe, dont look on the Charr and say that they're humanoids, we've got bigger problem than that ^^

The Dredge doesn't look like an animal-like foe, nor a humanoid so what are they xD

anthropomorphic moles.

btw, anything with a head, torso, 2 arms, hand, pair of legs vaguely resembling a human is humanoid.

IE: that dredge and most of that list.

Biostem · Jan 09, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

There are some problems w/ your categories:

1. Undead wear "clothing" and wield weapons, but only a few would be considered intelligent, so that qualifier is no good.

2. Wielding weapons is not a good distinction to use, because some enemies carry weapons simply because it was a design decision; the striders in the FoW have hands on the top of their bodies & carry weapons, but I doubt they are sentient.

3. Transformed races are debatable, as to whether they would be a new species or civilization. In the case of margonites, we never see is followers of Abaddon associate w/ them or not prior to their transformation, so it's sketchy.

4. Other races are sort of fringe when it comes to declaring them intelligent or not; there are the wardens in factions that wield weapons and are humanoid, but we never see any structures or settlements. And what about creatures like Ettins that use weapons and have some clothing (loin clothes) - are they sentient?

Frankly, I just write most stuff off as "fantasy content" and don't try to explain it away too much...