Curse

draxynnic · Oct 06, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa Dwager

I did some reading on Kisu and I find his leadership brilliant and cunning. He has agents in the city keep the scale of the two gangs balanced so neither gets too powerful and tries to go for the throne. I also like how he lets the Kurzicks and Luxons keep their freedom despite their blood fued.

On the other hand, that's essentially admitting that if it wasn't for the two being at each other's throats, they would have the power to threaten the throne. Not really an encouraging thought for the quality of his leadership or the strength of his power base.

PureEvilYak · Oct 06, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

On the other hand, that's essentially admitting that if it wasn't for the two being at each other's throats, they would have the power to threaten the throne. Not really an encouraging thought for the quality of his leadership or the strength of his power base.

On the other other hand, he's just had the population of his domain decimated by a supernatural plague. And before that, was running a city that is far, far over burdened due to the long-lasting effects of the Jade Wind that mean that everyone is cramped in 1 giant city, with only a tiny minority of guards at his disposal. You try governing that.
(And you can see a lot of similarities between Lord Vetinari and Emperor Kisu if you look hard enough).

As for the rest, well:

Vizier Khilbron - Was he actually evil, or just corrupted after Orr exploded? Now that we know theres a massive corruption dragon down there, who's to say. Well, if was actually a Vizier, then he probably was evil, thats how these things work. But it might just be an honorary titles for evil undead. Who knows?

Evennia - Annoying. Especially for those cartographers among you. She just stood there on he little cliff taunting you with her spare exploration. I got the better of her, though! I got the spiders to kill her. Fun.

Glint - Turned out to be very forgiving, in the end. I wouldn't trust someone who went about stealing my eggs with the protection of my young. Not that I have eggs or young, but the principle is the same.

Elder Rhea - Helped Zho learn how to make a Black Moa, who in turn taught us. Win.

Seer - Who on Earth are you? I mean, come on! You're from an ancient race that hates the mursaat... care to tell us why? Or what the Mursaat are? nope, you just like hovering there looking really mysterious. I want my curiosity satisfied, dammit!

The Gods - What are you doing now, huh? While our world was being raped by everything imaginable, all you did was get Balthazar to tread on Lion's Arch. Real helpful, guys.

Grenth in particular - You really, really suck. You can't keep control of your realm, we have to recapture all the villains you let free like Shiro and the Lich... Olias is the only who seems to trust you, saying "Abaddon is dead. And I assure you, Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did. We will not hear from Abaddon again in this lifetime... or the next.". Translated, thats, "Oh, He'll be out terrorizing the world again in a few months after getting released for good behavior"

draxynnic · Oct 06, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

The correct term is "on the gripping hand"

(Ten points if you get the reference...)

On the vestigial arm, however, that was policy before the plague hit. I'll concede on having to deal with overcrowding, however, but if he had a strong enough powerbase he should be trying to gun for them instead of playing them off against each other.

Of course, for all we know he could have been preparing to drop the hammer on them when Shiro intervened.

Dark Paladin X · Oct 06, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Some of these leaders make sacrifices of themselves for good of soceity or good for others (for example, Kormir sacrificed herself to become a demi-god and bring in a new era and Togo sacrificed himself to save the Emperor). Other than that, most of the leaders (especially Kisu) are pretty much screwed up.

Mordakai · Oct 08, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

Some of these leaders make sacrifices of themselves for good of soceity or good for others (for example, Kormir sacrificed herself to become a demi-god and bring in a new era

Some sacrifice...

draxynnic · Oct 09, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Some sacrifice...

Yeah, sign me up! I'm willing to give my all to the cause!

(That said, it COULD be considered a sacrifice if it means she now has to watch her land devastated by Palawa while for whatever reason being unable to intervene...)

arsie · Oct 09, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I dunno, the tone I got from the movie clip was that she was maddened by the power that was being unleashed, and wanted it all for herself. Or it could just be poor CG and bad voice acting.

She's the new evil god, I say.

draxynnic · Oct 09, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Nah - the point of the scene was that if someone didn't take control of the power, it would have exploded over everything and killed at least the heroes if no-one else (possibly up to and including the entire world, if it turned out the world's balance required it). She did it to prevent that.

That said, it could be that Abaddon's portfolio is inherently corrupting in some way - Abaddon wasn't the original God of Knowledge, after all.

Steps_Descending · Oct 12, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

Confessor Dorian and Justicar Hablion
We thought they were good, now they're just throw-away evil characters. Their motivations are unknown, although they could have lived it up in Lion's Arch, instead they were trampsing in the swamp and snow, getting themselves killed.

IS it me who did not understood their character or they weren't exactly evil. They were just (over)zealous and had some gods who were teh kind to get on the non-infused nerves.

draxynnic · Oct 12, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Six of one, half-dozen the other. Hablion certainly seemed to enjoy killing the Chosen on the Bloodstone, but it's possible that he just thought he was just eliminating a threat to the greater good.

Certainly they're no higher than LN (even a Lawful G character should start objecting to human sacrifice) on the D&D axes, but we don't really have enough information to know for sure if they were actually evil or just doing what they felt needed to be done to defend Kryta.

There are, however, certainly some strong indications that the White Mantle weren't exactly believers in equality.

PureEvilYak · Oct 14, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The correct term is "on the gripping hand"

(Ten points if you get the reference...)

On the vestigial arm, however, that was policy before the plague hit. I'll concede on having to deal with overcrowding, however, but if he had a strong enough powerbase he should be trying to gun for them instead of playing them off against each other.

Of course, for all we know he could have been preparing to drop the hammer on them when Shiro intervened.

On the prosthetic wrist, though, Emperor Kisu was born after the Jade Wind, so hasn't been alive for hundreds of years. Blame his ancestors and be done with it.

blue.rellik · Oct 14, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

I dunno, the tone I got from the movie clip was that she was maddened by the power that was being unleashed, and wanted it all for herself. Or it could just be poor CG and bad voice acting.

She's the new evil god, I say.

GW is riddled with hilarious voice acting so I would notch it on ANet not getting the message across properly

draxynnic · Oct 16, 2007, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureEvilYak

On the prosthetic wrist, though, Emperor Kisu was born after the Jade Wind, so hasn't been alive for hundreds of years. Blame his ancestors and be done with it.

Okay, that's a really strange Motie...

Onarik Amrak · Oct 16, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Okay, that's a really strange Motie...

He plays with words.

Pick Me · Oct 16, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

What about the other great leaders?

Shiro - lead the army of afflicted and shirokens and things.

Undead Lich - lead the titans to crush those who would oppose him, and let's not forget that he did trick us into getting that Scepter for him.

The guy who beat Palo Joku (spl?) all those many years ago.

And the most important leaders of all... US? We lead other humans, centaurs, char, asuras, because we rule! We've beaten gods, titans, dragons, every single enemy that has underestimated us ended up defeated. M. Bilson? We beat him too.

PureEvilYak · Oct 16, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

And the most important leaders of all... US? We lead other humans, centaurs, char, asuras, because we rule! We've beaten gods, titans, dragons, every single enemy that has underestimated us ended up defeated. M. Bilson? We beat him too.

It goes without saying that I kick ass.

EPO Bot · Nov 18, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Varesh wasn't really evil. Kayet corrupted her long before the game started. We never saw her do anything by her own will. That final, tired "Yes...hail Abbadon..." said it all: Her body and mind were loyal to Abbadon, but her soul was his slave.

Shadowmere · Nov 19, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

though he technically dosen't count since he refused the position, I think Pyre Fierceshot had a lot of qualities of a good leader, if a rather brutal one.

He is a Charr though so that's to be expected

draxynnic · Nov 22, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

It's a common trope that the best leaders usually don't want the job.

Biostem · Nov 22, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Arsie said:
King Adelbern
The archetypical over-the-hill warrior king. He was great once, and his biggest challenge came during his last years.

Depicted to be a stubborn die-hard by Prince Rurik in the first chapter, I think he somewhat redeemed himself somewhat when we went to rescue him in the Titan quests. Leading from the front!.

=========================================

If the players went w/ Adelbern, this would be a very short game - we retake Ascalon and the surrounding lands, pray to melandru to get the grass & crops growing again, and call it a day.

The Charr really aren't that intimidating, and they don't seem to be very good at using tactics - they basically seem to rely on the fact that their big scary cat-things to push others around.

I felt Rurik's death was rather empty - he should have at least died by being swarmed by stoen summit dwarves...